I am a horrible snob

[Iamameangirl]

I feel so bad about myself, its pathetic really. I grew up on a pretty grim council estate just outside glasgow and we were poor, my father was in and out of work thourgh the 80's and we had bugger all. I hated it, I was a bit of an odd one out at school I was quiet and read a lot but I disliked my scummy surroundings and desperately wanted all the trappings of a middle class life like piano lessons, ballet lessons, pony school, books, nice food and holidays. I didn't really know anyone like that (only in books) but I knew it was out there and I wanted a slice of it.

I worked hard at school and went and got into university, got my degree and my post grad. I was very fussy about who I dated I never wanted the bad boy or the slacker I like the careful, sensible reliable guys the engineers and the math students. I tended to date guys from more middle class backgrounds but when I fell in love it was with a man from a poorer background like myself but he was an engineer and he too wanted a better life than what he grew up with.

We have done well we have a lovely house in a good area, nice cars, I am finally taking piano lessons. But god I am such a snooty, snobby cow! I occasionally meet up with some girls I was at high school with and secretly I get a boost out of comparing my life with theirs. They are all fairly chavvy, multiple kids to different men, tattoos, obese, eating rubbish, working in the supermarket etc They were the cool girls at school, while I was the weirdo.

In other ways too at the supermarket I look at what people are buying and I feel superior when I see the ready meals, bottles of booze and junk food in their trolly. I take pride in all the healthy quality things I buy, ingredients for healthy homecooked meals, of course I also grow my own veg and herbs. I look at what people read and what films and music they listen to and I judge away looking down my nose at them and feel smug about the quality, high brow culture I consume.

I'm kind of horrified at myself, I know I still have hang ups about my background, nearly all my friends were privately educated and I do feel inferior to them at times as they have such in built confidence.

I like what I have achieved but I hate being so mean spirited about it all. However a pretty specific issue so not sure if there will be much advice but how do I get over myself?

Childhood baggage, we've all got some! You spend a lot of time and mental energy measuring the differences between you and the people you grew up with, because you're scared of being like them, or of being 'found out' by your mc friends as some kind of stealth chav.

(FWIW, I was a middle class kid who got beaten up by the kids off the estate, and now I tiptoe round at the school gate trying not to look too posh in case the other mums hate me... And for all the National Trust days out, organic beef stew and riding lessons, I'm now obese, sometimes buy ready meals despite being a good home cook, and am hoping to get a tattoo soon. ;) )

It sounds like you need to believe in yourself more, believe that you're allowed to feel at home in the life you've made, and that come what may you'll still be the same person with the same values. Have faith that you can provide the life you want for yourself, and trust other people to do the same, even if the life they want looks radically different from yours. People are allowed to work in supermarkets.

Good for you, OP, for having done so well. Whatever your background, I think most of us are scarred by the "cool girls" from school and feel a little shudder of schadenfreude if we find life hasn't turned out as peachily for them as for the nerds. It's not a saintly sentiment, but it's natural. Agree with the pp who say you sound frightened of losing it all, again, totally natural.

It is nice though, that whatever you had in common with these women you seem to consider lazy fat tarts, at school, has managed to keep you friends after all this time, despite you being a hard working and moral intellectual type.

You're so different! But still you're close. It's quite heart warming really.

I hate to admit it OP but I am quite similar. I wouldn't say I look down my noses at people but I am guilty of always assessing our financial situation and comparing it to that of others.

I had quite a miserable childhood with an EA dad who was also awful with money. I was always aware that money was an issue and a source of anxiety and stress.

I have had therapy in the past and know that my anxiety over money is because I associate the financial uncertainty with the general unhappiness at the time so I equate being poor with being unhappy and afraid.

On the one hand it has done me good because I worked very hard to get a high earning professional job and we are now very comfortable but I have spreadsheets upon spreadsheets detailing our money, compulsively check balances, spending etc all because I am so scared it will all go away. I also deprive myself of loads of things we could afford but I consider unnecessary which baffles my OH.

So I wouldn't beat yourself up about being a snob, generally such feelings stem from insecurity and anxiety. Perhaps as other people have suggested get some counselling to help find the root cause.

You're not a snob OP. Nor are you unhappy.

You are simply glad not to be living your old life. And that's fine. More than fine.

And of course, you worry that you could slip backwards. So you mentally put as much distance as possible between then and now.

In time, you won't worry any more and you wont need to orry about the distance. All will be well and you will relax.

From someone who knows..........

OP you sound very like me except that I did OK at a very bad school (almost the worst in a large city) and reasonably well at a mediocre university. Somehow I wasn't bright, brave or determined enough to push for the top of anything - inferiority complex at play maybe?

Now I look via FB at the lives old school friends have. They seem to have less than me materially but appear happy. I don't look down on them but their lifestyle choices would never be mine. In a way I am actually envious of them. I often feel discontent and wish that I hadn't been educated as then I would have lower expectations.

I think the main point is to be happy and content with what you have - if piano lessons etc are part of that then great but it's wrong to look down on others who don't have the same material assets as yourself.

CailinDana - She was always comparing herself to others and looking down her nose at people. She was however the most loving and perfect grandmother to me Just to see what those feelings did to her makes me shudder. She wasted so much time on what is a pointless exercise! I think that is why I'm so conscious of it in my own behaviour. She had many achievements - 4 wonderful children and a happy marriage and a career (practically unheard of in those days!). It was just never 'good enough'.

OP, just to offer a different perspective,

I have exactly the parents you "dream of" in your second post.

My dad is an academic, and my mum is artistic, unconventional, read me the Hobbit, gave me Jane Austen to read at 13, cooked lots of lentils and home made bread. My dad also baked!

I was always envious of my friends who were given oven chips, take aways, fizzy drinks and sweets. And late bed times, and allowed to watch all kinds of things on TV (even the A-team was banned on our black and white telly, no knight rider either, but we were allowed to watch Sesame Street in 3 languages (European TV))

I always lacked a certain "freedom".

So I like to buy oven chips and lemonade, and could not care less what anyone thinks of my shopping trolly. Genuinely not caring.

Is there any way you could cut yourself loose from your past?

For all of those doubting the OP's heritage because of the phrases she uses, I am also Glaswegian, have lived down south for several years now and use all of those phrases.She may or may not be who she says she is, but using those words are neither here not there in proving that

Couldn’t agree more. Another Glaswegian here, I use the phrases “pretty grim council estate” and “chavvy” too. The Miss Marples type comments on this thread are quite hilarious. Not all Glaswegians are “hrowing jeely pieces oota twinty storey flats, ken whit a mean hen.

And for the record, I don’t ever recall using the word “ned”. Ever!

OP, like others have said, if you are openly doing this snobbish judging, yes it’s wrong. If you’re just looking at a week’s supply of chicken nuggets, baked beans and oven ready chips in someone’s shopping trolley and thinking to yourself, “that coulda been me if I hadn’t xyz-ed” then I think it’s fairly normal. No need to get all “Scottish guilt complex” about it.

I think it's only human nature to gloat a bit. Of course it's not very commendable. As long as you don't actually say anything to them who is to know. But you have got some strange yardsticks to measure people by. Concentrate on your own life and stop looking in other folk's shopping trolleys.

I think the OP is getting too hard a time for basically being self aware. We all have flaws, the OP is someone who is honest with herself about what they are! She isn't on here boasting about being MC, she is on here criticising herself for caring about being MC.

"Where do you go to my lovely" has no relevance - it is written from the POV of a man who has no knowledge of "my lovely's" inner life and basically just hopes she is unfulfilled.

I hate that song because it contains no information that implies that the woman the song is about is actually lacking anything. It is clearly just a bitter rant of annoyance that this woman dares to be uppity, rich, successful and self-sufficient. Where she goes to, when she lies on her silken sheets or whatever, is probably a happy place of calm dreams and good sleep because she has a nice life funded by her own talent and hard work. Good luck to you, my lovely. I doubt she is lying awake writing whiny songs about how she hopes that he is unfulfilled. She has forgotten he exists.

OP - you sound lovely, reflective, honest, self aware and a great person to have as a friend or a parent.

I have similar ishoos in a way (though stemming from a completely different place - not class related insecurities but other things, that make people and relationships and stuff stressy for me). Sometimes I just look at people with love. Fake love, but I try to mean it. People who rub me up the wrong way or make me feel a completely unnecessarily intense sense of irritation (which like you comes from insecurity):I just look at them and think: you are a person, you are doing your best, I send you love. Weirdly, it works a bit. for a minute

[trying to be a good person but a million miles away]

I think the liberal middle classes (ie mumsnet) cheerfully defend the poor, but die on their arses when we aint poor any more. They don't like the nouveau riche with their big houses and swanky cars - 'no class'. Nor do they like it when we co opt middle class values - forgetting our roots and in need of therapy and voluntary work!

God I never post on threads like these but I think anyone who judges their old friends and family or anyone for that matter, because of what they have rather than who they are, is seriously lacking in emotional maturity and character. Of course it's insecurity as well. Having piano or a pony doesn't make you superior to anyone and if you think it does, you are ridiculous

I agree that everyone probably has snobby or judgmental feelings sometimes. It is part of how we define who we are, by thinking ugh I could never... give my baby coke, wear a tracksuit on the school run, whatever. (And in the opposite direction too - ugh I could never go foxhunting or send my kids to private school - it's not just "downward" snobbery.)

One of the most outspoken snobs I know comes from a working-class background, but got a degree, professional job (now SAHM), professional highly paid husband and highbrow cultured life. She constantly has to slag off her background, the place she grew up, the customs and culture there, and she also jokes about "chavs" and "schemies". It's obvious this comes from feeling like she is only one step up from them IYSWIM, so has to distance herself as much as possible.

Interestingly, as a more "solidly" middle class person this makes me cringe and feel horribly embarrassed, because in my liberal middle class way I feel guilty for being middle-class and affluent, and can't bear the thought of slagging people off just for being poor/working class/living on a housing estate or whatever. Of course I still have snobby feelings but to bleat on about them is the ultimate faux pas! Ironically, to me, my snobby friend stands out as being a bit common because she's prepared to do that. So I'm snobby about her snobbishness.

Ah, the British class system. But anyway. What occurs to me is that if you really want to be properly middle-class, classy and dignified, you have to develop a modest, inclusive, liberal, cultural cringe type of attitude that means you would never ever be such a snob. IYSWIM.

Sorry but foxhunting is a blood sport and people oppose it because of ethical and moral reasons, not because of their class.

Opposing private schooling can be to do with political leanings rather than bring an inverted snob.

The old insecurity is obviously still there, if you have to judge others to feel better about yourself. Have you thought about counselling of some sort?

I've an aunt just like you describe yourself. Has reinvented herself as a perfect middle class country lady. Even keeps chickens!! Cooks up feasts and holds the village fair in her grounds. She's lovely, actually. But, and I think this is you, she comes across as slightly insecure at times because she doesn't feel like she quite belongs. She wasn't born to it, had to learn the rules and frets about getting it wrong. She tries too hard. She certainly doesn't fit into her old mining village.

Try to relax. Be open about your heritage, it's nothing to be ashamed of. Being over judgemental isn't likely to make you many friends, though. I'm pretty MC and assure you I buy booze at the supermarket and even the odd ready meal.

I look at what people read and what films and music they listen to and I judge away looking down my nose at them and feel smug about the quality, high brow culture I consume.

The trouble is... this screams 'try too hard' to me, like a middle-class version of a hipster trying to look the most hipster in a Hoxton coffee shop.

I came from an average background, married a posher person than me. I have quite a highbrow education (after a normal state school childhood) and did a lot of stuff about performative behaviour, structuralism etc'. As a result I find people who use culture, organic food etc' as a yardstick of 'quality' a bit insecure.

More secure the uni lecturer who admits they like a bit of Mills & Boon in their downtime, the lawyer who is equally happy to down a few pints and watch the football, the accomplished cook who does sometimes has a cheeky burger. As opposed to people who gravitate to places like Guildford, wear everything Boden/M&S/White Company, only buy their kids wooden toys, organic food, free schools etc' ... if that's them to the core fair enough, but much of the time it's judging themselves by a yardstick of what's 'posh' as much as they judge other people.

Relax, do what you want to do! Because seriously, if life has taught me anything, it's that the well off are just as likely to be overweight, reckless, lazy and daft as anyone else. :)

And that's my inherent snobbery, I know!

I think what people are ignoring about this really interesting and unusual post is the extraordinarily level of self-awareness the OP has. She isn't asking 'Am I a snob?' - she's saying 'Why do I feel this way, particularly as I don't really like this trait in myself?' She knows it's self righteous and judgemental and isn't making any excuses. How many of us can say that we are similarly honest about our own shortcomings?

OP - I think you perhaps recreate a sense of distance between yourself and these 'other girls' because you've perhaps always been afraid of poverty, and desperate to escape it. I don't think there's anything wrong in that fear in and of itself: surviving with no money is harsh, brutal and exhausting and no-one in their right mind would want to do it. By comparing yourself to these girls you sound like you're 50% relieved in a kind of 'There but for the grace of God go I' sort of way.

The thing is, that can be the ground for a really compassionate world view of trying to help others. Where I think it becomes unhealthy in your case is the self-congratulation that is mixed in with it. It then becomes 'I am a more morally worthy person than these women' rather than 'God, if I had to find food for five on a miniscule budget, I'd probably be a right mess as well'.

It speaks volumes that you feel really uncomfortable with this judgemental aspect of yourself. I am not surprised - it is like you are being pulled in two opposing directions by your background and wider class understanding and this desire to judge. I wonder if you might find compassionate meditation helpful in overcoming the latter. Have a look at this video: You start by finding peace in yourself, and you build out to extending compassion, love and understanding to others, working from loved ones to friends to people who annoy you to people you actively dislike. I find that it helps to dispel deep disquiet in me, though I am not religious at all.

TheWordFactory - "They don't like the nouveau riche with their big houses and swanky cars - 'no class'."

Conspicuous consumption and showing off are rarely enduring - it's got nothing to do with being nouveau riche. Some nouveau riche manage to learn discretion in sync with their burgeoning bank accounts!

"Having piano or a pony doesn't make you superior to anyone and if you think it does, you are ridiculous"

This is superficially true, but it sort of goes into shades of grey when you get into: if you work hard and save hard in order to buy a piano, and then arrange piano lessons for your children, and then sit with them while they practise, for years, thus equipping them with a permanently rewarding life skill, you have done something better than someone who spunked all their time and money in Wetherspoons (or even a chic little pub with craft ales).

You are not a better person if you do that. There is no such thing as a better person: God loves us all.

But it is possible to do better or worse things, to make better or less good decisions.

The OP is clearly not entirely happy with the direction her thoughts always go in - and she is very self aware on this, to be congratulated. I think working on this though shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater by heading towards "it doesn't matter what you do, macdonalds is as good as home cooking and GTA is as good as Jane Austen". It takes grit, discernment and strength of character to provide better for your children than you had yourself. let's not pretend there is no such thing as "better"

I'm the opposite to you Op.

I came from a nice home with middle class values but rejected the lot for some reason. I've never given a shite what people think and iI look at snobs as weak.

Which might make me an inverse snob, I dunno.

I'm well educated and worked in a corporate environment for years. Where I met a lot of social climbers. True to the cliche they were shallow and fixated on reinforcing their image as middle class.

I left there, glad to see the back of most of those people. I now work in a job where I wear an airtex top and my colleagues would be some of the most disadvantaged in society.I'm much happier. The people are friendly and real. They're unaware of class and disinterested in spending their life trying to create an impression of wealth etc.

I always feel sorry for people who spend their life writhing what others think them. Have they no balls?

Just be yourself Op. You even see it on here all the time, the desperate obsession with wanting to be middle class. It's cringeworthy.

Do what you want and enjoy your life and forget class. It's a load of bollox.

you have done something better than someone who spunked all their time and money in Wetherspoons (or even a chic little pub with craft ales).

Ah but this is exactly how irrational snobbery works.

Drunk on a cheeky little red from your wine merchant? Not a binge drinker!
Football obsessed in a Liverpool kit= "chavvy" Rugby (union not League) obsessed in a rugby shirt with upturned collar? Perfectly OK.

Comparing the piano to pissing the cash up the wall isn't a fair comparison.
The Wetherspoons v Craft Ale is the truer comparison when it comes to snobbery.

Compare the piano to a cheap guitar, or just plain old singing... there's still that element of snobbery.

BTW - I really believe in 'better'. But in actual quality rather than what it signifies socially. That red wine example I gave is an example in point: I have worked with many teens/parents where a real drink problem is covered up by the fact it's middle-class booze. "Better" would be not to turn up to pastoral meetings drunk. Yet they would be disgusted by 'chavs' in Wetherspoons.
The kind of snobbery I'm talking about doesn't work for 'better' as 'better' means matching a clique regardless of what works functionally (or emotionally).

But having a piano and a pony means just that. It means you have a piano and a pony. It isn't symbolic of anything. Anyone could get a piano off freecycle or an old nag off the blue cross, many do. It doesn't actually mean anything. It's the perception it does which is ingrained in people thinking it's somehow better, they have achieved some sort of status.

Most people work hard. How hard they have worked doesn't have the same monetary reward, that's all. I always think some of these people who like to mix with people like themselves would be surprised how many people were like them, shared the same values, sense of purpose, morals, hard working. That has nothing to do with what you have or what socio economic pigeon hole you fit in.