"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's almost May 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

And no you are not having a silly strop. Your parents and sister frankly sound as bad as each other; I'd leave them to it and not get dragged in at all.

I am wondering if you were also given the "coper" role in life by your parents as well. I ask only as my own parents do seem to take far more interest in my brother and what he is doing in his life whereas with me they let me get on with it. I was trusted, well left actually, to get on with it from about 14 years of age. It took me many years to work that one out.

It's funny - my sister was more the 'coper' role, and I was labelled 'the weakling'. Picked on and laughed at by my father. In later years, made to feel that I'm over emotional, unstable, needy. I ended up on anti-depressants but managed to pull myself out of it.

I was in and out of short relationships, unable to find someone to settle down with, generally unhappy. My sister got married, had 2 lovely DCs, nice home, and was 'the settled one'. She's always been the one to deal with family logistics, doesn't argue with DF as badly as I do etc.

Then I found someone wonderful. We're strong and happy together. There is some sadness - we're ttc and there are complications - but other than that our life is wonderful.

Then DSis monumentally fucks her life up - has an affair, leaves DH, OM dumps her, she's in the middle of a breakdown. Single mother in a council house, massive debt, children emotionally neglected. My parents have behaved in a bizarre way (I had many threads about this), they have minimized and sometimes lied about my sister's behaviour. They blamed everyone else, and fell out with me for not doing the same. They are bitter and in denial.

I have fought a long, tough battle to get through this. My relationship with them has been permanently damaged. I expected my DM to stand with me and give my sis some home truths, condemn her behaviour etc... but she went the opposite way and stood with my sister and condemned me. They actively encouraged her affair, and criticized me for now doing the same.

I admit I am critical of my sister, and my DPs take it very personally. I know it's because they're so worried and hurt, and they just cannot admit she's to blame. They see their role as defending her, and keeping up the facade of a unified family unit at all costs and the strain is huge.

So I'm the scapegoat. I'm often told "It's ok for you, you have your DP / plenty of money / lots of holidays etc". But I have all of those things because I've fought for them, and worked hard, and saved and been careful... and my sis would have that too if she had behaved more responsibly. I think they know that, deep down, but will never admit it.

Snow they sound really difficult and that all sounds really hurtful about the messaging. I think Attila is right and you have to try to detach as much as you can.

I see what you're saying about the 'coper' - it fits with what my sister has just said to me really. They're just worried about her, I'm lucky that they don't have to worry about me.

So they can focus all their energy and attention on her, because she's having a hard time, and ignore me because I'm fine. I'm coping.

But it hurts all the same. Just because Im currently happy and coping in my life, doesn't mean I deserve any less attention than my sister. I realize that sounds like I crave my parent's attention, and maybe I do.

Just a one like acknowledgement in their email of anything that I had written about my life would have gone a long way.

We had this last week as well. My sister told me they were all going out for lunch on the weekend, and I commented "Nice of them to have asked me". There followed a big argument with my DM, who said they would have invited me but they knew I was busy that day. In fact, I was busy that day, but only because my plans had changed last minute. DM claimed to have known my plans had changed before I did and tied herself up in knots - she was gaslighting me, trying to make out she knew.. and it because a big fuss over nothing. I was told I was being silly, but once again, it just hurt.

criticized me for NOT doing the same. sorry, typo. I definitely don't encourage her affair!!!

Thanks Good - Ive been told to detach lots before, I just find it really difficult.

I tried when things were really bad a few months ago, and it just upset me more than being in contact with them. I think minimal contact is best for me - enough not to feel guilty, or feel that I'm missing out, but not enough to get sucked in to the drama.

The problem is my DNs. I love them so much, and missed them when I was staying away from my sister. I get drawn back in because I want to be with them. And my parents and sister know this. DNs are used as a pawn to draw me in and pile on the FOG...

agree, why on earth do they use you as a go-between? (ok i know the answer to that but just to point out how odd it is!).

Seems to me you're handling it exactly the right way by keeping calm, even though it hurts, and repeatedly simply forwarding it and telling your parents that that's what you've done. Very annoying if it carries on but for as long as you're in contact, about the most constructive way of handling it.

Yeah it is odd isn't it. If I take a step back and look at it from afar - "Snow, please find out what your sister's attention seeking FB comment was about and report back to us immediately, while we're on holiday".

It's over-involved, triangulation at its worst. I hope my sister is ashamed of herself for provoking it.

And i know what will happen next. My sis will tell them I'm upset that they're focusing on her, and I'll get an over the top fake-nice email saying "Ooh tell us all about your life!". I then either have to play along, like a child, with all parties knowing it's fake and making me feel sick, or I say something like "What do you care" and they'll hit the roof and tell me I'm being unreasonable.

How do I break the cycle?

And by the way, Hi Meerka how are you getting on? Been following this thread so I've seen your updates!!

I doubt very much that your sister is at all ashamed herself. Your parents I will reiterate are just as bad. If it was not for your nephews you would find it easier to break away but you cannot stay within this because of them.

The only way to break your part of the cycle in this is to completely disengage from their games. Detaching is as you rightly say hard but you have to self protect here.

It is triangulation at its most obvious!

I think that when your sister tells them you are upset and they contact you, you go to Neutral again. something on the lines of "Im sorry you feel that way, im just not sure why you were emailing me instead of her. Not much has happened since my last long email". Rinse and repeat in a hundred variations. Protestations that you're not upset are going to ring false and play into their hands. If you're a polished stone wall, they can't provoke you .. which is what you need for yoru own peace of mind and to stop the drama.

They may well sense what you're doing but if you keep neutral and polished, there is nothing at all they can do, fundamentally. The only thing they can do is distance themselves a little bit if you don't play into their games, but ... would that matter all that much?

The crux here is the pain their uninterest causes. They don't ask how you are and mean it. If they contact you with false interest, that pain remains. If they distance themselves, that pain remains. The only way that I've ever found of handling the pain is to 1) be honest that it really does hurt and 2) talk to husband / close (understanding) friend about it. It never completely heals, as far as I can see, but it does get a whole lot better.

--

I'm still mostly in hospital, just out for a few hours now and then, thanks. I've begged them for an ELCS but they just do not do them. Kind of trying to be insanely patient now. The staff -are- nice ... just wish wish wish they'd push harder with the inductions. Or that the little sod would turn up of his own accord!!

Thank you everyone. I'm pissed off because I was doing ok, but a tiny thing like this sends me into a spiral where I just go over and over all the past anger in my head and make up imaginary scenarios where I get to tell them all exactly what I think and they magically realize how shit they have been.

I waste hours of my days focusing on this, I have to snap out of it and stop letting their shit drag me down.

Sorry to have taken over the thread everyone, thanks for listening. 'Polished Stone Wall' is going to be my new mantra.

---

Sounds frustrating Meerka good luck with it all, he'll come along in his own good time

thanks you ...

I get that too, the stuff going on in your head. Fwiw, and this is diffiult like Attilla says, actually distancing myself made a big differene.

Learning ways to handle them if I did see them meant that I could handle the immediate situatoin better. That was half the battle. But then the thoughts and anger and (sometimes baffled) hurt would go round and round and round at night, and sometimes still do, particularly now :s. Only time and detaching has helped; the more of both, the easier it is. Sometimes it reactives like right now, but eventually it improves again.

Me again. I need somewhere to come and chat but not dont ever seem to be able to read back or help anyone else. Hope my one-sided posting is ok!

Not really too sure what the deal is with DM and DSDad. I spoke to DB about it last night. He only knew because DM had told his gf in response to a happy birthday text she'd sent to DM and also said she didn't want phone calls. I thought this was pretty off because a) gf is relatively new and it was unnecessary to burden her with that and b) obv gf would tell DB and he'd be worried yet wasn't to ring DM. However, I guess you often don't think of the bigger picture when your life is crumbling around you...

I spoke to her v briefly a moment ago and she said they were talking about going to relate and she'd speak to me soon and that was it.

I guess she needs space, it's a big thing and there's a lot they need to sort - regardless of which way it all goes but I feel I should be checking in on her (and want to, to see if she's ok). But that conversation indicated she didn't want to talk about it or be asked. So I guess I just take her lead right?

DSDad meant to hurt her. Asking your wife for a divorce on her birthday is hard to backtrack on surely. I dunno. They can both be difficult and there are other forceful dynamics at play too so I can see how it's come to this if I'm honest. Blame on both sides. DB agrees.

I'm fearful for their futures - either together or apart as neither option looks attractive right now.

Life is messy isn't it? not my role to fix things, not my role to fix things, not my role to fix things

Hi Band, that's quite perceptive, I do feel deeply ashamed for crying. Though what you've said has made me think over how much I have changed and improved over the years. I used to be so fucked up. I still am messed up in many ways, but not nearly so much and I'm now at a place where I can recognise the things that are wrong and hopefully do something about it. I want to be the best mum I can be for my kids.

Fingers crossed things get going soon Meerka.

Sorry I've not read of much else, I'm extremely tired today. The day started off getting home from a night shift and having to deal with explosive toddler poo all over my bed (as we were having a cuddle). It didn't improve much after that. Suffice to say I was not thinking about my MIL then, perhaps this is a new tactic?

Mine is soooo trivial compared to some but I've been NC with my mother and step father for two years.

Growing up my half brother and sister were adored. They were the full children of my mother and step father. Anything my sister and brother wanted they got. Money was pretty limited so a lot of the time they were funded by my step dads parents.

I'm five years older than my sister, to accommodate her demands I had the same bed time as a ten year old when I was 15 because it was easier to do that than have to deal with my sister. I was never allowed to use any of ther things (at five years older I never wanted to) but my things were open season as, again, it was easier to let her get her own way.

I grew up with some awful tales about my real dad. I barely saw him whilst growing up and could never understand why the rest of my family thought he was wonderful, especially as she said he cheated on her, beat her black and blue, left her in debt, etc. it's come to light in the last few years that my mum is a total liar and my dad did none of these things.

She's totally narcissistic and my step dad is an enabler. She has torn doors off hinges, smashed whole cupboards full of plates, thrown computers and basically will destroy anything when in a violent outburst. This will be caused from anything from my step dad not rushing out to buy flour to make cakes or because the internet is slow.

Apart from my brother and sister, no one in the family talks to her. She cut her losses with her brothers, sisters and parents long ago. Many many reasons. My sister told me once that my mum "confided" in her that my grandad sexually abused her growing up and raped a local woman.

My mum once swung my sister round the front lawn by her hair when my sister tried to take some clothing home for my niece that had been left at my mothers. My sister also got a punch in the face and a slating on Facebook for "talking back"

My final contact was because I had a disagreement with my sil. My mother took sil side as she was pregnant with pfb niece and threw things at me leaving massive bruises. She jumped up to punch me in the face but I stod my ground and told her Id give as good as I got so she backed down. She threw my birthday cards at me and told me it's no wonder my (ex) husband left me. I'd actually left him due to the massive abuse id suffered at his hands. Which she knew about.

She had a very large and practically uninhabited council house, close to my grandparents that my auntie was in desperate need of to house her five children (two of whom have behavioural problems) and to be close to my grandparents as she does a lot for them. My mum was all up for a three way swap with another lady and on the day of moving she pulled out. My grandparents offered her £1000's if she'd move, offered to help pay for whatever she needed and she screamed at her own parents that she'd be dead before she let my auntie live in her house.

She's typical narcissist. I once heard it described as walking along a very narrow cliff path. On one side it's lovely fields and flowers and on the other side there is danger and rocks. You have to tread carefully on the path to never risk falling off the cliff edge

Oh god there is loads more that you forget!

No emotional support. When I was young, under 7, she'd hold my hand and squeeze it hard until I cried.

Refused to go to parents evening for years. Only went when I got in trouble in year 10 and then told everyone I'd never told her about them!

Punching me in the head one afternoon when I was being a hobby teenager. Yeah I was a bit cheeky but I was such a well behaved goody two shoes most of the time I probably didn't deserve it.

Getting her tits/arse out in large public groups like parties or bbqs!

Making fun of me to others instead of being supportive. Totally shattered my confidence. If I attempted to wear nail varnish or shave my legs she'd ridicule me to other people, including none family members so if never attempt it again. I remember being brave at 20ish and buying open toed shoes and lovely pink nail varnish and hearing her say "look at the state of her feet" to her friends just as I was in earshot.

If I was watching a programme on TV she'd just come in and change it. I rarely watched TV and loved things that I'd wait all week till the next episode. She'd just turn it over to some crap and then not even watch it while she read a book or knitted!

I came on here to vent some more, but just wanted to say Shellistar your story is SO not trivial. You've been through the mill, love, hope you find the support you need on here. I have no experience with this stuff, but I'm sure someone will come along soon who can talk this through with you.

and nearly nothing wrong with one-sided posting at all, it's what I've been doing! Sometimes it's hard to think of responses for other peoples issues, but rest assured someone will have some supportive words. It's a great place just to write it all down and digest it.

I came here to say Attila - I doubt very much that your sister is at all ashamed herself. you were dead right. Just had a message from her saying that she emailed our parents after their 'demands' from me to inform them immediately what her Facebook drama was all about while they're on holiday. SHe said they're getting on her nerves watching her on FB all the time. So I replied that perhaps she shouldn't put anything on her FB then...and that I was pissed off with their behavior. She said she will not stop putting stuff on FB, and that I was being pathetic for being upset about it. So you were right. She can't see it because she's not the one being sidelined and scapegoated. I can't expect her to understand really.

I'm trying to channel my Smooth, hard polished wall....

Shellistar

Actually your experience at the hands of your abusive narcissist mother (and lets not forget her enabler of a husband either; such women always but always need a willing enabler to help them) is NOT at all trivial. Not in the slightest.

I was wondering why you used the word "trivial" at all.

I read your second post here before reading the initial one and came to the swift conclusion that she was indeed a narcissist (it was the references to her exhibitionism in public that to me gave it away). Such people need sexual admiration.

Such people also love facebook, a great tool for narcissists generally.

Remain NC with these people!!!.

Snowcoveredhills

Re your comment to me:-
"I came here to say Attila - I doubt very much that your sister is at all ashamed herself. you were dead right. Just had a message from her saying that she emailed our parents after their 'demands' from me to inform them immediately what her Facebook drama was all about while they're on holiday. SHe said they're getting on her nerves watching her on FB all the time. So I replied that perhaps she shouldn't put anything on her FB then...and that I was pissed off with their behavior. She said she will not stop putting stuff on FB, and that I was being pathetic for being upset about it. So you were right. She can't see it because she's not the one being sidelined and scapegoated. I can't expect her to understand really".

And she will never understand as long as she is alive either.

(this Meerkat's family's experience with narcissist BIL led me also to write that comment. Like your sister, I have no doubt whatsoever that he still feels very aggrieved and has done nothing wrong towards us. It our fault!!).

She and your parents have a symbiotic relationship and both get what they want from it. They each equally keep this dysfunction going.

You have to detach further from both your parents and your sister for your own sake. I feel sorry for your nephews because I know you are very fond of them but there comes a time when self preservation is necessary.

You are well rid, shellistar. She sounds awful; quite a predator. I am glad for you that you are no contact.

Ok so turns out they are going to go for marriage counselling. Mum doesn't sound convinced. And I guess I'm worried that it was dredge up issues and feelings that she'll simply take as criticism which she cannot handle at all. But I guess it's a positive step rather than a destructive one.

Have a good bank holiday weekend everyone, hope its filled with shiny happy people rather than narcs

in haste

baby was born this morning 08:48. son is healthy, 3,875kilos.

true to dutch style, no pain relief despite begging for pethedine!

And she will never understand as long as she is alive either

I think this may still be a bit (bit autocorrected to bitch ) of a stumbling block for me.

I believe my toxic sister to be an intelligent person.
I know, over the years, people have called her on the "Queen holding court" dynamic and dumped her for it. At one point she even asked me if it was the truth and I told her yes it was. She went quiet for a few months, but eventually reverted to form.

When I distanced myself from her, Attila, she let me go without fuss as you wrote can happen. It was a relief and I put it down to her believing she was punishing me with her silence (how ever much that backfired on her ), or her being fastidious in -hard to describe- a sort of magnanimous gesture of "whatever you want" + "I only want what is best for you" trying to mask the truth of "staying away where not welcomed" (and milking that for the Pity Party).

I think on some level she does understand. If her personality disorder made it impossible for her to understand, I could almost pity her. I do have empathy for her from having the messed up childhood she did, and its effect on her.

The many many many people who have distanced themselves from her could not go unnoticed by her (we are in our 50s). So is it the manifestation of the personality disorder that prevents her from changing? Or is she not as intelligent as I have thought?

The other tangent of thought about it is that she is aware and makes the choice to act this way. The Lundy Bancroft book, Why Does He Do That?, rang bells for sister. Behavior patterns entrenched in habit can be hard to change. Losing contact with me, and more significantly my dc as she is single/no children, one would have thought it would have been enough of a jolt (even though it was a years long process) to inspire honest assessments and change.

My counsellors (including support here) have said she will not change. She will never change. I admit it has taken a long time to understand and believe that. This refusal to change says she is mean. But, perhaps it isn't so much meanness (even though that is the result), but it is this fact that she does not understand. That is why she will not ever change.

Sorry for writing a book on it. It is another piece of the puzzle for me.

Here is hoping Meerka is too busy with her newborn to post. Hope things are going well!

X-post Meerka, congratulations!

Meerka

Congratulations Meerka on the birth of your son .

My best wishes to you and your family.