"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's almost May 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Rockin - I'm sorry about your circumstances. It must be very hard to have your parents go NC. I have no experience of this as i chose to go NC with my mum. However, i can empathise because when my dad realised i was serious and would not just ignore my mum's abuse any more, he completely cut me off.

I tried on several occasions to meet him/ speak on the phone etc but he just said it was 'too awkward'. Before this I had felt close to dad so I felt incredibly rejected and hurt by this. It also affected my self-esteem as I felt he had just throw me away like a piece of rubbish, as though i was nothing. For myself, I find that time has helped heal most of these wounds. It has been almost a year now, and I now believe it is his loss, not mine. Only a pretty lousy father could give you up so easily.

I would definitely suggest therapy again and from experience I found the choice of individual therapists to make ALL the difference. Last year I found cognitive behaviour to really help me. It helps you to get out of negative thought patterns and can improve self-esteem, general happiness and ability to cope with life and can challenge a lot of the inner critic which causes depression and anxiety.

Meerka hope your baby makes an appearance soon, what is the next stage? Are you in hospital?

Hi ShyGirlie, I'll try, hopefully others will be along to answer better.

FOG is an acronym for fear, obligation, and guilt. It is to do with family dynamics and the "understood" rules that govern family dynamics, some of which are actually myths. Perhaps part of it is related to one of the ten commandments- honor your father and mother. Some fathers and mothers will abuse that and expect a child to endure any and all s#!t thrown a them.

Fear...face the consequences if you do not march to their tune. Obligation...Family Duty. for example, Rule: family comes first. (Or the family image ) It can be a control tactic. Guilt is the punishment of shame if you do not do what they want (you "let them down").

X-post with Milly Molly, ShyGirlie. A description of narcissism that I like is someone who breathes all the oxygen out of a room so they are the only one who can function. Everyone else is wrong, stupid, slow, mediocre, in the way, etc.

Another description: a narcissist is an emotional vampire. Check your local public library...or Google. I found it very interesting that people/authors could describe my sister's behavior so exactly, with never having met her (I suppose ).

Meerka, thinking of you and hope you have a safe delivery asap.

GoodToBetter, Counselling can be a tough go but very worth the time and effort. Try not to pile too much into your everyday schedule during these next few weeks/months as it can be exhausting. Also try do be conscious of doing something nice for yourself on a regular basis because reprocessing the negative experiences can become overwhelming. Good luck.

Hoping Meerka will have some baby news soon to cheer us up!

Thanks for explanations - will try to remember about FOG when I'm being made to feel worthless. I think I suffer a lot from fear and feeling obliged.

Will research narcissism when I have a little more time, life very hectic right now. Feeling totally let down by my mums behaviour this evening as tomorrow is a pretty crucial day for my family and she is doing nothing to try to even the keel.

Thankyou Meerka and everyone else who answered me. It's funny, I spent most of yesterday miserable, crying off and on, sinking into the murks of depression. Today has been totally different. I just think I'm emotionally spent. After that post I went for a walk. Spent it analysing past situations from teen/childhood. Horrible things that were one offs. Really though, the things I remember, I'm not honestly sure if they even happened or not. At some point in my life I've lost such confidence in myself that I can no longer even be certain of my own memories.
The present though I am certain of. There's no doubting MIL and the awful things she's said/done. Got to move on though.
Thankyou anyway. This has been another self indulgent post, dwelling over and analysing when the whole point is that I'm supposed to stop doing that. Anyone is welcome to give me a metaphorical slap, I think I need it

No slap, Dizzy; imho, the analysis is an important part of processing the hurts so that the natural and honest emotion that should have happened in the moment (when it happened in the past) can now be acknowledged and felt. Then survival turns into a sort of closure and real healing is possible.

Now that you are in a safe place, being no longer subjected to the behavior, your energy can/is able to shift from pure defense/coping to the processing and healing. So your subconscious feels safe to think about it now. Please try not to be dismissive of your grief in the present. I think it is important to let that out.

It will take time. After so many years (decades even), the emotional pattern has become entrenched and thus it will take time to form a new way to look at/think about things.

Agreed so much with band ... the analysis is really important. So right about the emotional pattern being entrenched and it takes time and sometimes help to make a new way of looking at things.

I am in hospital yes and more or less will be til the birth, afraid I was not handling very well the nauseous remains of Hyperemesis, 2-3 hours' sleep a day + the old, awful thought patterns and familial pain resurfacing, plus usual preg strain at 38 weeks. The NL have the 'natural' way as their ideal here, unfortunately imo they have taken it far too far. The 'usual' way of giving birth is at home and they don't even like giving pain relief during the birth. At least in hospital I get pethedine every 3rd night so I can -sleep- dreamlessly

Do any of you who have gone NC send your estranged relative birthday cards or Christmas cards and if you do , and you send them to a parent, do you address them as " mum " or " dad".

Although I do not have any contact with my awful , bullying mother , I still send birthday and Christmas cards. Maybe I should stop this?
The only reason I still do is because my stepfathers birthday and sisters birthday is very close to my mothers and it seems odd to send them a card but not her?

I would be grateful to hear what everyone else does and how they address it. I also don't put " love from etc etc " just " from".

Thanks

Good luck to Meerka

Insul - strictly NC means nothing at all, including sending cards. I went NC with mum a year ago and have not sent cards for xmas, her birthday or mother's day. As far as I'm concerned I have never had a mother so i refuse to 'celebrate' her in any way. I did feel a bit guilty, but tbh it was a relief to no longer have to spend ages looking at cards, choosing the one that was as plain as possible, without some fake, gushing poem about the best mum in the world etc.

Dad went NC with me shortly after, but I still send him cards. I'm not sure why really, i think at the time, i thought it wasn't my decision and it shows that the door is open if he changes his mind. Now, i don't believe there is any hope and i don't even want a relationship with him really, as I have had my eyes open to some of the awful things he did over the years. I mostly do it now for show i guess, and to show my db that I have not closed the door. And, i don't mind, it doesn't cost me anything emotionally to send the odd card, but for others it is different. I was thinking of sending an xmas card to him, this year, but unsure whether to address it to both of them?

Good luck meerka and well done for starting therapy GTB.

So I'm still feeling sad/anxious about DM's potential divorce. I texted her last night and she reckons DSDad is serious about it. She also had mini rants about him over text which is a tiny bit more than I wanted to hear/read, but I appreciate this must be a lonely place for her.

Still confused about what my role should be in all this. It's not right/usual for us to spend quality mother-daughter time together and hasn't been for 3+ years, so it's not coming naturally to me to be in touch with her more often.

I want to make sure she's ok today but don't want to open up the possibility of more ranty texts (don't want to get involved that much). I also have car tax and home insurance to sort, blood tests to have and visiting relatives to see today - all whilst working too. Oh and a conference call on restructuring/redundancy for work so am up against it. Perhaps I'll just text her tonight and see how she is then.

I'm also worried about the weekend. DM and DSDad were supposed to be going away for the weekend. Looks like DSDad is still going and I have suggested to DM that she stays with a friend elsewhere to get a change of scenery too. I also feel like I should invite her to stuff we're doing over the weekend. But because I wouldn't ordinarily it will blantantly be out of pity/obligation. Even she would see that. Gah.

And I feel guilty, as we've just got a new (used) car which we're excited about (long time coming), having the house redecorated and in general looking forward to things.... All whilst her life is crumbling around her. Not my fault or responsibility but I do care .

Thank you millymollymandy

I think the only reason I do still send a birthday card andI can relate to the plainest card you can find! is because 16 years ago when I first tried to go NC ( unsuccessfully and it was me who had to speak to her first )and it was her 50th birthday , I didn't send her a card and she and others in the family couldn't believe that I actually didn't send my own mother a card for her 50th birthday. So part of me still feels I HAVE to.

(part of me thinks maybe one day she will change and say sorry and try and make amends but of course I know she never will)

I have the same dilemma with Christmas cards. I have been addressing the cards to both mother and stepfather ( first names only - not " mum") but to be honest , I would like to stop even this, but don't want to cut out my poor weak , enabling stepfather.

Has anyone got any advice

what other people think you have to do is irrelevant. In your head, tell them to mind their own business. they werent there when your mother was bullying you; they don't stand up for you; sorry but what right have they to get involved?

Is this card a sort of secret way of you to keep in contact with your mum and hope for an apology and reconciliation? In which case I think cut it out.

If that's not the case, in -your- situatoin I think that you are justified in not sending a card, but its not a bad compromise. You have no other contact with her. You obviously feel some compassion for your stepfather, weak as he is. Its not only the expectations of other people leading you to send a card but your (rightfully) limited pity for yoru stepfather. You're obviously not completely comfy with sending the card, but not completely comfy with not sending the card.

HOw would you feel looking back in ten years' time if you stopped sending cards? do you think you'd regret it or not? If you guess you'd regret it, keep sending. If you guess that you'd not regret it, don't send them.

nearlyready a text tonight sounds good.

shy how are you today?

Insul - some good advice there from Meera, and sounds like we are in a similar situation, as my dad is also a weak enabler to my mum. In my head, i also see it as a pretty good compromise, though others will disagree. But it takes me a few minutes to grab an ok card, write it and post, and then i don't think about it. I have no guilt re mum, but not sending dad a card would make me feel horrid. So this means no mental guilt trip.

Nobody can say what works best for you, but only go off their own experience or what they've read. Do whatever gives you the most peace of mind. But I agree with Meera, that what you do is nobody's business. Do what's right for YOU (easier said than done, i know, but try)!

Hi Insul,

re your comment:-
"I have the same dilemma with Christmas cards. I have been addressing the cards to both mother and stepfather ( first names only - not " mum") but to be honest , I would like to stop even this, but don't want to cut out my poor weak , enabling stepfather".

Well stop it, stop with the Christmas card as well. Does it really give you any satisfaction to send it or do you just think job done?. Never act out of societal convention when it comes to toxic family members. Sending cards in such cases only furthers the crushing degree of obligation you already feel, many adult children of such toxic people are suffering hugely from FOG - fear, obligation, guilt.

I would ask whether he really does deserve your consideration at all given what he has done. He is indeed weak and enabling; such weak men are bystanders and often act out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. This man was never interested really in protecting you was he, he was ultimately perhaps looking out only for his own self. He has willingly also gone along with the dysfunction; also women like your mother always need a willing enabler to help them.

DizzyKipper, another thought...or two.
From your post about crying...It sounded like you were ashamed of yourself for crying. Please do not let yourself feel shamed for having your feelings (even if, especially if, the source of the shaming is your inner critical voice). You have the right to have the full spectrum of emotions, unqualified.

The other thing is to be encouraged by the fact that you can cry. My experience of being invisible (and thus feeling completely irrelevant -even in my own life) resulted in an emotional numbness. While handy in some circumstances, it really isn't a healthy condition mental health, or self esteem, wise.

insul, greeting cards were a circumstance that evolved over time. My thought/experience was that if I sent one, I might get one back...which, at that time, would trigger emotional flooding and I would have to have a period of time to recover. Slowly, I learned to handle that reflexive response, (thanks to MN), and just see it for what it was:a piece of paper with ink on it. Sort of like a "so what?" (I can learn to be just as dismissive as sister is, ha!) So it did come to pass that I "forgot" to send a card, and the world did not end...AND... It did not hurt one bit when she did not send me one. Quite the opposite. I am now full radio silence nc.
It does take courage to change. Good luck!

Oh no Meerka, hope you are as comfortable and content in hospital as possible, if that's not a silly thing to say.

Utter and complete madness here as normal. Feel really sorry for younger brother as its his birthday. Mum trying to do the whole acting normal thing today but he's having none of it - wont accept birthday card from her etc. her behaviour towards him at the weekend is horrific though, so I can't blame him for not wanting anything to do with her today. Of course she's making it all about her again though - look at how my family treat me, wont accept my card etc. it's always all about her.

I feel surprisingly calm myself though. Incredibly busy at work so I think that's keeping my mind lifted.

I don't send cards. Or open any that arrive.

Can I vent again here?

I feel bad because some of you are being so brave going through such difficult circumstances with your own families. This thread is amazing.

My situation is not as bad as others here, but I'm just sad, and flat, and tired of it all.

I've had previous threads about the situation with my family - my sister is behaving appallingly, left her husband for a married man, who then broke her heart. She has been a bitch to everyone, including me, and lost lots of friends. My parents have put huge pressure on me to 'support' her in her bad behaviour. I've been through the whole FOG thing, and still am going through it. She is the golden child, I am the scapegoat - and seeing her behave in such a shitty way has caused huge cognitive dissonance which they just cannot compute and they vent at me.

They're on holiday at the moment. They emailed yesterday, so I replied immediately with a nice message with lots of silly bits of news, about my life, my dog, and some sad news about a death in DP's family.

Their reply this morning: "Thank you for your quick reply. What is DSis angry about on her Facebook message? Can you find out how much xxx costs as a present for xxxx (someone who has been kind to DSis)."

End of message. It just makes me want to cry. My Sister posted a typically attention seeking cryptic message on Facebook the other day - I refused to take the bait, and haven't acknowledged it.

But thanks parents, for not showing the slightest bit of interest in my life, my nice email to you, and making it clear that DSis is the only important person in your lives. Fuck Off.

I replied "I don't know, you had better ask her" and left it at that.

I just want to cry. Nothing I can do (part of the news was that I was on TV FFS!), NOTHING is as important as my fucking sister and her fucking attention seeking drama.

I've just had another reply, asking me to find out as soon as possible and let them know.

It took all my strength not to reply with "thanks for showing an interest in my life".. I know that this will just provoke an angry emotional response where they tell me I'm being silly and making a fuss.

I just replied that I'll forward this message to DSis. I'm fucking not going to be the go-between for them, relaying tittle tattle on the minutiae of my sister's drama while they're on holiday.

It seems that attention seeking cryptic messages on Facebook are the way to go to win my parent's attention...

Hi snowcoveredhills,

Your birth family situation fwiw is just as bad as many others on here.

The dynamic you describe with your golden child sister/you being the scapegoat often happens within dysfunctional families where narcissism plays a role.

Honestly I would disengage from all of your birth family as of now both emotionally and physically. Block their e-mails and refuse to act for them. They may well not let you go at all easily, they need you around to continue to assign you to the role you were given by them.

And remove yourself from FB as well; that is often misused by narcissists like your sister for their own ends.

Why did your parents write to you directly and repeatedly rather than to your sister?. I think they still want to make you feel responsible for her because it then takes the heat away from the crap job they themselves did as parents when the two of you were growing up. They do not want to feel guilty and likely do not think they have done anything wrong here at all.

The golden child role is itself a role not without price but your sister is too absorbed to realise the damage here.

I daresay that your sister is very much a product of them and you are not like your parents at all hence them giving you the scapegoat role. They will never give you the approval that on some level you still perhaps seek.

Thanks for replying Attila you're so kind - I feel like I'm just throwing a silly strop, but you're nice enough to talk it through with me.

I think they emailed me because my sister currently doesn't have proper internet (having left her husband and moved out of her home). They could have phoned, or sent her a message on Facebook mind you, but they're not very technologically minded.

I texted my sister, and I'm afraid vented a bit that I was pissed off that they showed no interest in me. She said I had to stop taking everything so personally, that they're just worried about her and I'm lucky they have nothing to worry about with me. She's right I suppose, but it's just another kick in the teeth on top of everything else.

She also said she wished they would stop obsessing with her Facebook - but they bloody do that because she keeps putting attention seeking posts on there! I do have FB but I never post anything personal - I just share pics of animals usually! But I can't help from looking at hers... I deliberately won't respond to any attention seeking stuff though, won't get drawn in.

I've asked my sister to get in touch with them. She can deal with them, knowing that she's made them worry on their holiday with her pathetic attention seeking (she's a 37 mother of two ffs, not a teenager)