"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's almost May 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Thank you for replying.

My dad took me as moral support. He still sees her a lot because she makes up excuses to 'pop in' when dropping off my brother (21, aspergers, 50% residency) or asks him for lifts to the doctors etc. in some ways he does enable her but in others he doesn't let her back in. It's tough. I love him to bits. He took me there because I wanted to tell her I was pregnant but didn't know how, he acted as a mediator really. In fact when she just said 'oh ok' he had to tell her to give me a hug.

He's not my bio dad, I don't know if this makes a difference.

My brother is 7 years younger and we get on fine. Never been close because of the age gap but there's no hostility there. He once tried to make me speak to her again but I told him to keep out of it. I've tried to protect him from it but my mother constantly tells him lies about how she's always trying to get in touch when she isn't.

It's all very fucked up.

I've spoken to the miscarriage association before they were really lovely.

DH is very supportive. I am also very close to his mum. Something else my own mother hates.

Sorry for multiple messages. She was brought up by a mentally ill mother and was in care for a few years too. She often tells people she acted like a mum to her brothers. Which I'm guessing was in the same way she acted towards me because only one of them speaks to her now.

So so glad me and dh swapped numbers as mil is at it again with texts and voicemail about enjoying the sun on the motorway and how her water has been turned off... probaby in hope he'll go around and fix it..

Have taken some time to read through quite a lot of this thread tonight. It makes me so sad to hear of the turmoil others are going through. At least most of you seem to be removed from your mothers in that you have gone NC, or have moved out or moved on in life with your own DHs and families. Be thankful for that, you are at least living my dream in that respect!

It's unbelievable that so much goes on behind closed doors, I have spent my life thinking I was the only one going through this. Incredible to think that there's possibly even people i know living a similar life. It's a cold comfort, but its something to me right now. I wish there was an easy solution to all these problems.

I think it was Meerka who said try to focus on whatever blessings you have. This is what has kept me going so far, sometimes it feels like it won't be enough but it's all i have.

I don't really want to go into my whole history, just because i don't really understand it myself. It wears me out just thinking about it. The briefest possible summary is that since I was only around 5 years old my mother has been repeatedly been adulterous, physically and verbally abusive to my dad and granny - her mum. (although no physical abuse in the last 15 years - i think she became aware my younger DBro and i were old enough to see and understand what has happening, even though many of my earliest memories were of physical abuse).

I think she regrets her past but cannot make peace with herself. I have spent my life being constantly put down, have never heard her say anything positive about me. She makes complete "friendships" based on her ability to put down her entire family. Then tells me things like "the whole country is talking about you, no none can believe the kind of daughter i have" etc.

I have had numerous suicide attempts by her, endless endless endless rows and arguments. We are all just so bad to her - everything is our fault and of course everyone knows it.

I can't keep living like this.

I don't know where to turn. I am just so deeply sad. Maybe it is just all my fault. I wish I could escape. I am doing my best to save up for my own home but for various, complicated reasons I am stuck here for quite a while longer.

This post wasn't meant to be so long but it's like therapy just typing. I really feel heart sore for each and every one of you and wish you all well. there seems to be definite similarities in each case.

I am definitely what I would describe as "damaged goods" as a result of all of this. I just wish I could gain a deeper understanding of why she is like this, and more importantly, how to not turn out like her in the future.

Lets just keep typing.

Welcome, Sesalt, Insul and really glad to see you again shy and also precious. Who have I missed?

I have my first ever session with the therapist tomorrow, bit nervous. Plenty to talk about though...

Hissy I know you are right, as ever. Ended up having an annoying convo with her today. Started off with a half-hearted apology from her, "I'm sorry, BUT...". She wasn't angry apparently but DS "was crying" and...This fucks me off, as it implies I'm this awful mother who shouted and made DS cry because he broke the awning. He didn't cry and I didn't shout or anything, just told him I'd asked him not to fiddle with it before.
Then some crack about I was too keen to offer to pay, that if it were with the PILs I'd offer, they'd refuse and that would be that and why "do I put more distance between me and her than with them?"...err because they're not nutters who thrive on drama?
"We seem to misunderstand each other all the time these days"
"I did think of suggesting of canceling when you said you were potty training but then I thought you'd be offended" WTAF???
And a corker: "I've only ever been angry with you once in my life (WTAF???) and I think you know well when that was." I assume she means not backing up her character assassination of DH, but who knows? I said I had to go to work.

Nosey question, GtB and others who may know... How much does counselling usually cost? I've never even been to my GP about this, but I would doubt it'd be offered on the NHS around here. Can little afford it with trying to save for a home of my own. Think it might really help though.

Can't explain how much this thread is helping though cos I've never opened up to anyone about this before. Even if no one is listening, I really appreciate the openness I find here.

There's always someone listening here, Shy. The therapist I have found is 50 euros a session (I'm in Spain). My brother in Ireland pays 85 euros which I think is really expensive. I'm thinking I'll maybe do 2 a month.

My therapy was £40 to begin with, then £45.

Good- did you see what she did ther? She rewrote history, right before your very eyes.m

And the intrigue of when you made her angry? Ffs! That's designed to put you back into FOG right there.

You'd have been right to sodding deck her over the things she did! She was angry that you didn't scrabble to her when she took off to the apartment, and wittered on about towels and boilers etc.

All of that drama was her doing. She was angry you didn't perform as she wanted you to.

shy just one step at a time and with distance things do gain a little perspective. You will be ok.

Welcome to everyone else, we all jump in and out, we all have our moments of need, so please never feel you can't come crashing in with a crisis, we have ALL done it on here at some time or another!

pumpkin does dh know about her texts/calls to your phone? Don't tell him if he doesn't need to know btw! Hopefully you ignoring the messages is helping you feel a bit empowered?

Mine is £50 a time, but worth every penny. And Shy NONE of it was your fault. It's just abuse comes with blame and abusers teach you to feel like that. It's the abuse talking not the truth.

It's my mum's birthday, first since I went NC. Feel so guilty. And yesterday someone well meaningly asked "did you have a nice Easter, did you see family," which hasn't helped. Nice and family kind of don't belong in a sentence.

SeaSaltMill I'm sorry for your losses and don't for one second think you are a bad daughter. I think sometimes the only way we can care for people is to not be part of the problem, not enable behaviour that is destructive to them and others, not allow them to hurt us. You are doing the right thing.

OK, I'm off for my 1st session. Will report back. xx

Aren't these mothers just dreadful. What awful damage they have caused. There is that quote somewhere " they fuck you up - your mother and father' , and isn't this so true in our cases.

meerka - luckily I live over the other side of the world from my family so have had not much contact with them for over 15 years and NC now for 5 years.

My very much favoured sister has just moved out and got married but she really is the golden girl - but I think because my mother sees her as an extension of herself and all the things she didn't achieve possibly.

My husband does not like my mother at all. Although she keeps her awful side hidden from all except me and my stepfather - he has seen flashes of it, and these are mild flashes , and he is shocked.

All I ever wanted was a simple acknowledgement of what she did to me over the years when I was just a child and absolutely powerless and terrified. And a simple Sorry. That has never happened. On our final bust up 5 years ago - she told me that I had a selective memory.
In the 5 years of NC , she has never , ever admitted what she did to me except to say they were isolated incidents, and she has never , ever tried to make amends.

I do send Christmas and birthday cards though but address them by her first name - I do not call her "mum". Maybe I should stop even this?

dizzy I too dwell - and have dwelt years over it. The unfairness of it.
I feel furious one day and extremely upset another day, even though I have a great husband and children. I find it extremely hard to to dwell on it but we have to as we can literally waste years of our precious lives angry and bitter, and then they have won again!

That was excellent advice from meerka about trying to deal with the bitterness.

I have come to learn like others have said - she will never be the normal mother that I wanted and will never , ever change and i have to try so hard to try to accept it and just try so hard not to let any part of her influence how I am with my own children.

I found this great quote a while ago:
" The best day of your life is the one on which you decide you life is your own, no apologies, or excuses. No one to lean on , rely on or blame. The gift is yours - it is an amazing journey - you alone are responsible fro the quality of it. This is the day your life really begins.

Thank you all - it is extremely hard to talk to anyone else about it because no one really understands unless they have been through it.

I feel a lot more positive and stronger after reading this thread.

Hi all, I've not posted for a while - my last posts were as YouPutYourRightArmIn when I'd clearly forgotten to post as this name, designed specially for this thread (DM undermined me with DD shoes is probably how you'll best remember me!).

Well, all has been relatively well with my DM. In fact my last post was to say that things were good and I was feeling less anxious over interactions with her and all seemed ok. In terms of me and DM I think things are relatively stable. However, I'd been sensing a slippery slope with her in relation to other things (family weddings and family-run business finances) and it seems I was perhaps right... It was DM's birthday at the weekend and DSDad asked her for a divorce on the night of her birthday .

All of my posts before were to do with me not being convinced DM is a complete narc. I'm still not convinced to be honest, and find it easier on lots of levels to put it down to her being a bit difficult and me working on my own positivity and improving good, kind behaviours instead of focussing on how my relationship with DM makes me feel.

Aaaaaaaaaaaanyway. I don't really know what I want from posting. I don't know whether DSDad is being serious (he told DM he wanted a divorce about 6 years ago, and they worked it through but DM told him if he ever said that again it would need to be for real). DM is obviously upset, which makes me upset. I know she feels hard done by in lots of respects, and whilst some of that is definitely her own-doing, much of it isn't. She is so keen to be liked and loved but it seems to backfire on her. She goes about things in the wrong way, but she can't or won't see it like that.

I feel so conflicted. Everyone deserves happiness, right? She told me some of the things DSDad had said during their argument and they are things that I could probably agree with him on . But at the same time, he has his faults and I can agree with DM too. And I can't quite believe this all happened on her birthday... She's in her 60s and would've been in a fairly decent financial position if it wasn't for the business her and DSDad run (which I think has caused a lot of the problems). I don't know where this leaves her financially. Or him.

From a completely selfish point of view, I'm worried about the practicalities of them splitting. We have more than enough room here but I really don't want want her to stay with us. I'm due with DC2 in 3 months and living with her does not work, as past experiences have shown. DH wouldn't want it either so it's not really an option and I plan not to let it be. But at the same time there is part of me that would love to have the kind of relationship with her whereby I could really support her in this time of need, help her and look after her because I enjoyed having her that close to me. But that's not the reality of it. So as well as having a marriage on the rocks she's got a daughter who can't be there for her.

Maybe it will all blow over. DSDad doesn't drink much because it doesn't agree with him (he gets angry) so I think that is part of the reason. But as DM says, why should she live her life wondering if he'll ask for a divorce again because he's had a couple of beers?

So I suppose I just needed to say that I feel sad about all this but don't really know what to do with that emotion. I don't know what support I'll need to give her over the coming weeks/months/years, and worried about feeling selfish if that support pushes me in a direction I don't want to go in.

Again, apologies for not reading back or giving any advice to anyone else... I'm all take take take, me

Nearly welcome back! I think you are in danger of falling into the O and G parts of FOG. You aren't letting her down. There's no reason on earth she should stay with you if they split up, especially if DH doesn't like her and you're PG. Do not let it happen. And don't beat yourself up that it's YOUR failing that you don't have that kind of relationship. My mother isn't a full-blown narc either I don't think, she has quite a lot of narcissisitic traits and is a professional victim and martyr. Just cos she doesn't necessarily tick all the arc boxes all the time doesn't make her an easy person to deal with.

Had first session. It was interesting and stirred up a lot of stuff. Got a lot to think about. Going to see her next week.....

Oh I remember you well from previous, was wondering how you've been getting on.

Re this part of your comment:-
"I'm still not convinced to be honest, and find it easier on lots of levels to put it down to her being a bit difficult and me working on my own positivity and improving good, kind behaviours instead of focussing on how my relationship with DM makes me feel".

It is indeed easier to continue to take the path of least resistance but perhaps you do now need to start thinking about how the relationship with her does makes you feel.

I would keep well out of anything to do with your parents relationship and if either one starts carping then remind him/her that you are their daughter, not a relationship therapist. It has taken the two of them to get the relationship to that point, Both sound as awkward as one another, they both get what they want out of this relationship and could well carry on like this in the same old patterns for many more years. It all sounds very dysfunctional and unhealthy in any case. If they did split let them get on with it, you really know nothing anyway about the internal machinations of their marriage.

And do NOT have your mother come live with you either; just NO!!!!!. You do not want her there anyway and for very good reasons.

Ok thanks. You're both right in that it's not my problem and I need to stay out of it. But I keep circling back to the fact that my concept of normal is skewed because I'm sat here thinking "a normal daughter would be able to support her mother at a time like this". But I also need to listening to the fact that it's quite telling that I'm already concerned about how this impacts us.

And I guess I can support her, I'll just need to make sure its a level of support that I'm happy with, rather than one that takes over our lives.

I think the Obligation part of FOG has always been rife in my life. I've felt obligated to treat my parents equally, obligated to do the running around keeping everyone happy. So now that DM could be entering a time of need I guess my Obligation Radar has piped up.

FWIW - last time the threat of divorce was thrown about, I sobbed. Sobbed that my poor mum would have to go through this (again), be on her own, that she didn't deserve this, that she deserved happiness and why had life been so cruel to her. It was a big shock and surprise. I don't feel like that this time - I think it's because of the flick of the switch that has happened since DD was born and back then I wasn't even aware that I should perhaps detach somewhat. Now I feel differently and through the process of detaching a little over the past couple of years I am sad for her, but in a way none of this is a surprise as such... Just hard though to not feel selfish/unkind at the same time.

There's also part of me that thinks it's a storm in a teacup. DSDad has got a lot on his mind at the mo and whilst it's wrong to threaten divorce everytime he's under pressure, he is clearly lashing out against DM as a reaction to this pressure. I guess it's similar to how kids push their parents - ie the ones closest to them.

Congratulations on your peaceful marriage, wordybird.

Dizzy, I know what you are talking about with regards to the endless playback reel of the EA relationship. It is obsessive. Mine is about my sister, btw.

I superficially thought about calling her over Easter...the kind people here supplied timely reminders and I spared myself. Thank you all...Hissy, Attila, and Meerka especially. The Obligation and Guilt of the FOG do seem to have a longer shelf life for me. I have ignored it, and got on with "fake it until you make it" on a day in-day out basis. But....the thought reel still plays, I say "no, not now, I have nothing left", and generally move on from there (or after x number of repetitions until I even bore myself with it).

I feel like it will be like a cloud over me forever and I'll just have to accept it as a part of me.

Meerka, your advice for choosing our thoughts for a positive direction is very important. Listening to music helps me and I find that it can fill the void. Some progress. Some diminishment of the brain plague.

Mommybird, not wordybird!

not at my best atm with this overdue baby, sickness and insomnia. But just to comment about something someone said above "a normal daughter would be there for her motehr"

the situation for us on here is not normal. Normal only applies to, well, the majority of relationships, by definition. In those relationships, people can and are there for each other as much as they are able to be, while still having their own lives.

But when you are dealing with dangerously difficult and even destructive people, even parents or siblings or children, 'normal' is not the situation. You have to find different ways of handling things, ways that people from more normal families never have to even think about.

Its hard being on the outside from yoru usual group of society where people are mostly there for each other. But that is the situation when you have poisonous close relatives. You have to find your own way. I think everyone on this thread has had to develop other, and sometimes rather heartbreaking, ways of coping. It's necessary.

gtb glad to hear the session was so thoughtprovoking. Don't be entirely surprised if it kicks up some difficult emotions. Be gentle on yoruself and talk to your DH if you need ...

Can someone explain what FOG means, and also lots of mentions to narcissism - I'd like to know more about the traits of it.

Long time lurker on these threads, still, after all these years, trying to figure out what happened to me, why my mother behaved as she did and why my father let her.

Reading these threads does make me feel that I am not alone, which is a new thing for me. I have always felt that no-one would understand that just because we lived in a nice house etc it didn't mean that everything was all right.

What I do see is so many people going NC with their parents. Have anyone's parent(s) gone NC with them? This happened to me in 1988. I was in hospital, on a drip, threatening to miscarry when I got the letter and I have been unable to make any headway with my mother since.

Since then I have had to live with the fact that I am such a disappointment to my mother that she wants no more to do with me, or her only GC, and as she gets older and the time to get to the bottom of this is getting shorter, this only gets worse. I have tried to approach her, just to get some closure from my side, but any attempt to contact her is rebuffed and she says I am cruel and unfeeling.

Logically, I know none of this makes any sense and it is not my fault, but that doesn't make it easier to live with, even though I always knew she hated me, blamed me for the breakdown of her marriage, verbally and physically abused me until I left home at 18.

The one thing that really weirds me out and I cannot get my head round, is that throughout her marriage she refused to sleep in a double bed with her own husband (my father) but she was quite happy to make me sleep in a double bed with him when I was 8 or 9. This only happened when we went on holiday. We would have a family room, me and Dad in the double and her in the single. What was that all about? Is that why I still hate going on holiday?

I did attempt to have some therapy around these issues some years ago, but it was not successful, possibly because I made the wrong choice of therapist. Is there any specific type of therapy that works well for these issues?

Shygirl - FOG stands for Fear, Obligation and Guilt. The three ways in which sufferers of child abuse are manipulated into towing the line/ putting up with continued abuse.

narcissism is a personality disorder, in which someone has a greatly exaggerated view of their own importance and a lack of empathy for others. Their are many ways in which they bully the victim and manipulate others to get their own way.

Check out the links to some useful websites, which you will find at the beginning of this post. They are incredibly informative and will elaborate more

That's really bizarre, RockinD and I can also see why the lack of closure about why she went NC with you is so baffling and difficult to deal with. But I think it's that deep down she knows SHE is the disappointment...