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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

994 replies

DontstepontheMomeRaths · 26/04/2014 13:39

Thread opener here: webaunty.co.uk/mumsnet/
You may need to right-click and 'unblock' it after downloading it.

It's almost May 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

OP posts:
AnAirOfHope82 · 26/07/2014 18:22

Like I feel I behavioured wrong and I caused trouble anf its me that took offence and not them being rude and putting my xbro family before mine for once. They dont see us that often but they see them everyday.

yongnian · 26/07/2014 18:44

Yes Meerka, I've been using that kind of neutral tone with and BOY does it make her mad! That's not my intended effect to be honest but feel it shows when someone is thwarted in their attempts to control. And thanks for the distinction about anyone controlling ;-) true
Air of hope thanks for sharing...and for the statements....I ask about sibling violence/sibling physical abuse in particular because I've struggled to find many resources that discuss it...suppose it is less common or maybe people don't tend to see it as abuse....the incident in the garden sounds horrifying...a hug to your 13 yr old self xxx

yongnian · 26/07/2014 18:47

X cross post air of hope...I did worry for a sec you meant me! Eek... I know exactly what you mean though...they always scapegoat us eh...until we figure it out one day!!

Meerka · 26/07/2014 19:35

Yong, to answer for myself, no there was no sibling/sibling violence

StrawberryTree · 26/07/2014 21:00

I've posted before about my Mother. I've only come to realise fairly recently how unreasonable and manipulative she is - really bad timing as she has Dementia. I had counselling last year which really helped and talked honestly to my Dad, about whom she had dripped poison for years. As a result we are mich closer and I understand the man he is rather than the man I thought he was. I also have written to my Aunt who she is estranged from and uncovered many more lies.

Mum is currently pretty stable and someone not knowing she has Dementia would probably not know on a good day. I limit my contact with her and have felt quite frustrated that I can't really confront her about her behaviour.

However I spoke to her this evening and she started probing to see if I had fallen out with my Brother (big victim of our upbringing, unable to hold down relationships) and the conversation moved on.

I told her I thought it was very inappropriate to tell your child that you were going to leave when they were two but were worried about losing custody of them do stayed for their sake and suffered a bad marriage for them. That it was totally inappropriate to try and discuss the ins and outs of a bad marriage with your child and a few other things.

She refuses to accept this and says I am over dramatic and how come this had no effect on my Brother. I pointed out it has and she had said previously that he blames her for his inability to hold onto relationships and that it has affected him quite badly.

I said I had spoken at length with Dad and we are now much closer. She utterly refuses to accept any responsibility for any of her behaviour and everyone else should know better than to say things like that of should grow up.

She has lost the ability to empathise to a large degree and obviously that is the Dementia to some extent but I think it is just exacerbating her personality traits really. Is it fair to confront someone about things like this when they are not functioning fully cognitively ?

Maybe not but I felt she is functional enough to understand what I was saying and I wanted her to know I had spoken properly to my Dad and Aunt. I remained totally calm throughout and said the main points I wanted to. Left out the bit about knowing she lied and concealed assets from my Dad's solicitor as couldn't see the point in that . I did however let her know that I knew she had tried to put my Grandmother in a Home against her will when she was still pretty independent and that her cause of death wasn't hypothermia (my Aunt's fault she told her).

It was very cathartic and I feel some sense of closure on our dysfunctional Mother/Daughter role.

AnAirOfHope82 · 26/07/2014 22:26

Strawberrytree that was very brave of you and something I think is needed to get closure. Well done and Wine

Yougnian my dad use to tell my exbro to kick and hit me when ever I upset him and the both give me dead leg or arm for fun. My exbro broke my colarbone. My mum and dad would throw me out of the house and make me sleep on the wall or patio. My mum would hold me with one hand and smack my legs bum with the other when I was 5yo so I had brusies and red marks for a week. I think they feel it was discipline

AnAirOfHope82 · 26/07/2014 22:27

(im dyslexic and a little dizzy from asthma/chest infection so sorry if I dont make sence!)

yongnian · 26/07/2014 22:45

Airofhope... :-((( horrible....I have similar memories....were you the scapegoat in your family or did you receive similar treatment? I was the scapegoat and abusive bro the golden child (still is - I'm pretty much NC with him but LC with parents)
StrawberryTree, much respect, must have required a lot of bravery to go there..awesome x

AnAirOfHope82 · 26/07/2014 23:07

My exbro is golden child never hit or abused, sent on expensive school trips and given the best clothes. I was ignored, neglected or hit. My eldest sister is the scapegoat as she is the eldest and should know better. My middle sister is the blacksheep and vierbally abused or ignored.

My eldest sister and I get on and the middle sister and exbro get on. So I dont talk to middle sister as she is sexest and brainwashed and enables the others.

The worest part is that they think this is normal behaviour or simply rewrite history!

They give everything to exbro and totally disregard their dds.

Another example is they were excited that xbro was having a son to carry on the family name totally disregarding 8yo gc from my sister that is a noy and has their family surname, as that doesnt count.

yongnian · 27/07/2014 09:45

So draining to be born into a family where the odds are inexplicably stacked against you..you grow up slowly realising the treatment is unfair (at best!) but you don't know why....or what you did to make them behave that way (cos you can't help but blame yourself and they tell you it's your fault anyway!)....but for so long, even though you know what is happening is wrong, they keep telling you, you are wrong....hurts more than bruises or blows...the confusion is exhausting, even after you begin to have some clarity

Fuzzywuzzywasabear · 27/07/2014 11:48

My DGF died last night, we're going to have to stay with them for the funeral :-(

AnAirOfHope82 · 27/07/2014 11:53

My eldest sister confirms my reality. She remebers ss getting involved and how I was beaten so I have someone to tell me im not mad at least!

They admit they are dysfunctional and antisocial and rude but they dont care.

But they all still play the role they are given and I dont want to anymore.

They will never say sorry as they think its a sign of weakness but I have told them what I think about them.

Hissy · 27/07/2014 14:07

fuzzy you won't have to stay anywhere you don't want to, for any reason.

Remember this. You need your space, and they don't deserve your company.

Sorry about your GF, it's always a shock to receive such news.

Meerka · 27/07/2014 17:09

sorry to hear it, fuzzy, and is there anywhere else you can stay at all?

Fuzzywuzzywasabear · 27/07/2014 18:09

We have two dogs which will need looking after at short notice, we could stay in a hotel but we will still need someone to look after the dogs while we're at the funeral and I doubt they will take the dogs if we don't stay with them :-(

We're a bit stuck with this one! There's also no escaping db as will have to go to house and then travel in family car with him, will have to be the very bigger person on this one more worried about the family situation than funeral :-(

Hissy · 27/07/2014 19:51

Is their a neighbour you can ask to feed and water/walk them?

You don't need to engage with any of them.

Do you drive/have a car? If not could you hire, stay at BnB and get taxis, show them you won't need them for aa thing, and they won't get to you.

Meerka · 27/07/2014 22:08

what about a pet hotel? it really doesnt sound liek its a good idea to stay with family.

Fuzzywuzzywasabear · 27/07/2014 22:10

We live 4 hours away from home so we will have to take them with us, the kennels are all booked up as it's holiday season and we've used our good will dog sitting with holidays already.

I did think we could stay in a hotel, but my mother will never look after the dogs if we don't stay with her and she'll probably come to the funeral so it'll probably be easier to deal with if she's "on side" as it were?

My gran will probably come as well (they both attended my grans a few years ago, my mother was quite close to her but I think my gran came for the drama?!) they'd love the drama of telling anyone who will listen iam not talking to them blah blah blah....

We do have a car, I've considered driving myself instead of travelling in the family car but think it will upset my dad and aunts, my step monster will have the step siblings & partners crowbarred in the family cars as well (which is a whole other issue) so feel I need to be there to support my aunts as they will have very little support from family until they get to the funeral.

I also don't want to give the step monster ammunition to use against me, if I don't travel in the family car she will probably take it as a slight against her, she refused to attend our wedding because we wouldn't invite her parents?! And we are still waiting on a wedding gift/ contribution to the cost of the wedding which we were promised but then never received.

I am bloody surrounded by toxicity!

I think I am going to have to just smile and suck it up......it'll probably be character building or something........at least dh will be there.

Hissy · 27/07/2014 22:43

fuzzy read your post please.

ALL of it is about YOU pleasing everyone else.

When NONE of them would give you this consideration.

Stop caring about what people who don't care about your feelings think about you.

You can't win, so stop trying to play.

You can ask a neighbour if you tell them it's for 1 day so that you can attend you GF funeral. Only a complete bastard wouldn't help.

You could give them a key, leave in the early morning to get up there, go straight to the funeral, and come back. Whether you attend the wake is up to you.

What they say about you doesn't matter. Not. A. jot.

BunnyPotter · 28/07/2014 00:12

I got a reply tonight to my reply (short, to the point, unemotional) to my mother and it's thrown me. I can tell she genuinely believes what she's saying, but I see it - and experience it differently. It was all about her in relation to me (her thoughts, her feelings, her "burden to bear" etc). It's too long to explain, but I just had to tell someone before going to sleep, other than DH who comes from a more harmonious background (they have problems but somehow it doesn't make big problems).

I can tell she's genuinely sad and genuinely wishes the relationship was better, but have no idea of how to meet her needs/wants without making myself very vulnerable to her (which inevitably means being hurt by her). As that isn't going to happen, I feel very sad. I can't even explain what the issues are because I know there's no point - she won't take it on board and she will play the victim card.

I don't want to be in the position of choosing how to hurt someone less. There is nothing I can do from this position that won't hurt her.

I've got two young kids, a major problem in my marriage, no family, no good friends where I live, an illness that leaves me, sometimes, feeling more tired than I should and she's just not helping.

NeedToGoNoContact · 28/07/2014 00:37

Creeping in and marking my place.

ShadowsShadowsEverywhere · 28/07/2014 09:39

Hi all. I posted on one of these threads a few years ago under a different name. I need to come back to the support here. My mother wasn't (I don't think) a narcissist, but I do think there is some sort of personality disorder there. It's all very subtle emotional abuse and manipulation with her. Lack of boundaries as a child, no privacy, no lock on bathroom door, not allowed bedroom door shut, her walking in when I was in the shower to rant at me etc. There were issues with my stepdad but I've dealt with those, I'm beginning to see that they are separate to the issues with my mother.

Twice in my lifetime she has attacked when I've been at my lowest. Firstly when I was very unwell following the death of a much loved relative, had anxiety that was out of control depression. I was about 17 and she made me get in the bath, and sat in the room with me where she proceeded to write pages and pages of bollocks about how I manipulated people, had problems with anger, couldn't differentiate between fantasy and fiction, how I had made up lies about her. The one sentence that stands out is her description of me hating myself for "seeking to destroy the one relationship that means more to me than anything in the world". This was of course following an attempt to access support at school because of her behaviour. She took this document to the doctors and made me sit there while he read it. He referred me for CBT but I never went. I still have those notes she made while I was in the bath and I sat in a cafe on Saturday and reread them for the first time in years. It made me feel sick.

The second attack came when I fled a violent partner and went into a refuge. She sided with him, tried to provide written evidence once again, of my inability to tell reality from fantasy, sited sexual promiscuity and manipulative behaviour throughout my teens as evidence. It was horrid reading, really vile, and wholly untrue. The whole theme she carried through the time I was in refuge was how could I do this to her! How worried she was. It took months of conversations to convince her (only on the surface mind) that I hadn't had a breakdown and that my ex had actually been abusive. Even then her "apology" for her reaction and the document she wrote consisted of "I did what I thought was the best thing at the time, it was very hard for me, and you were never meant to see the document".

Two years have passed and we were back in touch. I just reached a point last week where I had enough. The playing of happy families, the pretence that none of the above ever happened, the lack of boundaries, the insidious drip drip of control. The weekends where she never turned up when she said she would, no text to let me know, me sat at home all day twiddling my thumbs. The daily phone calls, the invasion into my life, going through my washing, going round my house with a bin bag, trying to parent my children.

I can't play happy families anymore. She was a shit mother and still is. And her personality is unpleasant which I'm noticing more and more with time, horrible remarks about children she works with, selfishness, martyrdom. A few weeks ago she failed to turn up again after I'd made lunch for us all. I sent a text saying that I'd had enough and wanted some space. Two days later she started ringing. I haven't answered the phone but weeks later the phone calls are still coming. She's sent two texts and both of these take the form of ignorance - she's acting as though she never got the message from me saying I wanted space, she's going for "I'm so worried as I haven't heard from you". I'm not finding it hard to ignore the calls and I am feeling so much calmer and happier. I am worried that her next step will be to turn up at my house however, or that she will involve other relatives. She has form for this, I usually get grilled about "how can you do this to your mother" which ties in with mums oft used trump card "I am your MOTHER" said with dramatic emphasis.

I'm really done this time. I don't want her poisonous influence on my children. I'm watching her fuck up my brother who is still at home in much the same way she fucked up me. I've bad enough so much that I'm willing to sacrifice my relationship with my brother in order to have no contact. He is too young to have a mobile or email so any communication with him would be via the landline or letter which is too open to manipulation via her. I will send birthday and Xmas presents and hope that when he's older he will get in touch. For now, I'm dealing with the string of suppressed memories that emerge whenever you are clear of the fog, and keeping busy with projects around the house. The landline is on mute and I'm ringing people back that I want to talk to so that I don't hear her calling. The phone logs the calls though so I can see how many times she's rung.

I'm taking the children on holiday next week with some friends which I think will be a much needed break. Mother of also on holiday that week but for two weeks so that will give me breathing space from the phone calls. I know I'm doing the right thing, re reading that document at the weekend drove it home. She will always portray me as that character in her play; the unstable delicate child that needs her mother to steer her through the dark times when reality eludes her. The mother who has remained faithful despite immense hardship, who has endured the poison her daughter attacked with, the heroine. On the plus side I feel no guilt or loss this time. It feels right.

guggenheim · 29/07/2014 10:35

Could I ask for some help please?

Rather than post a massive back story,I'll just sum up and say that my mother is extremely unpleasant and has been abusive. We have an uneasy relationship which I intend to continue but need to minimise her controlling behaviour and set boundaries. After councelling I've come to 'understand' for my own fecking sanity that she suffers from conditions that are beyond her control.

Having said all that I think that this is a thread where people can understand what an abusive,poisionous relationship are like!

This is an odd and subtle way my mother controls me- she is very random so I have never been able to tell if I am going to speak to angry,morbid,frightening or manic mum. Last time I spoke to her she was manic- so that everything I said was SOOO WONDERFUL! For instance,if I said that a necular bomb had fallen on my house and the entire street had been wiped out the she would respond by informing me that it was a great thing to happen and that I was unreasonable to be worried about it. The conversation continues in the same vein- all aspects of my life are super (according to her) I am not allowed to complain or express my feelings. Next time I speak to her she will be different again,so very random.

In some ways it seems to be a pleasant conversation but I alway come away feeling wrongfooted and upset.Can anyone shed light on this??? What am I doing wrong? What can I do better?

I now know that I cannot give her any information about ANYTHING or it will be twisted and used against me,so I just change the conversation at times but what else can I do???? All advice accepted.

spanky2 · 29/07/2014 19:50

Shadows, try reading about narcissistic mothers. Your mother sounds similar to mine.Just to let you know according to my father and mother I have lost my grip on reality too. I challenged their behaviour. It is the year anniversary of going non contact with them. I have very bad depression at the moment, but reading about everyone's shitty parents I think it isn't just me.
Guggenheim this is how she is. You will always find this as it is a way of manipulating and controlling you. You can't change her. I tried for 40 years to have a good relationship with my parents, and failed. I got ill with anxiety and depression and thought I can't do this anymore. It is up to you. Crap that we have to make these kinds of choices.
My friend's dad is terminally ill. I realised I will never experience the pain of losing a loving father like she is. I have sent her a card etc. people understand bereavement but not surviving an abusive childhood. You can see their uncomfortableness if you begin to tell them. If I told all but one of my friends I have been fantasising cutting my wrists with a knife today, or that two weeks ago it was which car to jump out in front of, they would be horrified and want to run away. I feel like it is so lonely. Thank goodness for this thread! It isn't just me! Just fantasy, not brave enough to go through with it.

ShadowsShadowsEverywhere · 29/07/2014 21:05

She turned up today. Stood outside my house with her hands on her hips. She then let my younger brother out the car and he then stood in the road screaming my name for TWENTY minutes. She stood back and watched. My brother is still a child, he was visibly upset when he got back in the car. She just keep stooping lower. I didn't answer the door or let her see me, I didn't think it was fair to confront her infront of my brother. I don't think she is going to take this lying down though, I think I can expect lots more scenes like this. At least when term starts she will be at work again and the possible times she can appear on the door step will be limited to weekends. Still, it's making me stressed and edgy. I'm struggling to eat ATM, and just feel tense. I suppose the key is to focus on the light at the end of the tunnel isn't it?

spanky I did look at the checklist for narcissistic mothers but she only got 9. She was always manipulative rather than openly angry. And always used "I love you" to manipulate whereas I get the impression narcissists flare up with rage and don't say "I love you"? It was the level of control that's horrifying looking back. My brother is going through the same stuff I battled - having to poo with her in the room and at a time set by her, having her walk in to the bathroom whenever you are in there, not being able to close your bedroom door, having no privacy, no personal space. Having to relay conversations with school friends and teachers to her, word for word. That's only the tip of the iceberg. Just complete removal of independent identity. Any sign of trying to assert my identity through choice of clothes or hairstyle would be seen as a sign that I was becoming unstable - that I was imagining I was someone else, couldn't differentiate between reality and fiction.

There was a lot of "I'm worried about you Shadow" with the obligatory head tilt. Yet she chose to ignore blindingly obvious signs I wasn't ok. I was severely underweight, my periods became increasingly painful and irregular before stopping. I was violently sick often and used to lay on my bedroom floor sobbing. I was desperate to leave, infact I did at 17 for a week, and disclosed what had been going on to teachers. She went into school and talked to the head. Seemed oh so lovely and oh so reasonable. And said that I was having a breakdown caused by the death of a relative. The head chose to believe her and I was forced to return home.

I could talk for years about all the things she's said and done.