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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

994 replies

DontstepontheMomeRaths · 26/04/2014 13:39

Thread opener here: webaunty.co.uk/mumsnet/
You may need to right-click and 'unblock' it after downloading it.

It's almost May 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

OP posts:
BunnyPotter · 25/07/2014 19:31

I have been on and off this thread in different names in the past. I'm coming on today to say THANK YOU to everybody who posts!

Before I came on I'd never heard of gas lighting. It took me a while to figure it out too, because it had been happening to me pretty much my whole life, so I'd not differentiated it from "normal".

I found so, so many things out from both posts and links here - narcissism in a mother, for example - and it's all been percolating away.

I've had a period if no contact with my mother and it was amazing. I caved in to make things comfortable for others, but didn't go back to full contact.

So, I'm writing this today because I, for the first time, called my mother out for yet another passive aggressive email, did not justify myself twenty times and semi - or fully - apologise either. I just asked that she stop sending passive aggressive emails. And the response? Oh yes, you know what's coming, because it's The Script (that I learnt from this thread): gas lighting, she does everything she can for me and essentially nothing is good enough, she is "extremely hurt", blah blah blah bloody blah!

So I'm thanking you ladies and any gents, because I could laugh. I don't feel bad, it's not my fault it really is her even though, perhaps, I could have softened the text a bit (DH thought I was a bit blunt in my email - I just literally, one sentence at the end - asked for no more passive aggressive emails, but I'd read hers to him and he was shocked by the level of PA so agreed with me saying something).

So even though I'm not always on, and haven't been for a while, this thread has made a MASSIVE difference to my life.

Thank you.

PS What do I do now, I'm supposed to Skype this weekend and see her in a month (she's staying here)!

DontstepontheMomeRaths · 25/07/2014 19:37

It's a great thread isn't it.

I'd not respond tbh and let her stew on it. She probably does expect you to apologise and back down. Don't.

OP posts:
DontstepontheMomeRaths · 25/07/2014 19:42

Or if you do reply just say I'm sorry you're upset but I'm not prepared to put up with these passive aggressive messages anymore. Or similar. Short and sweet. Then don't reply when she no doubt wrings her hands a second time. I doubt she'll apologise or recognise her behaviour is wrong though. Could you lower contact some more?

OP posts:
BunnyPotter · 25/07/2014 19:56

I'd like to go NC, but it's just too difficult. It puts a massive strain on my relationship with my brother who thinks I'm as bad as her (my DH who is quite blunt about these things seems to see a lot that my bro doesn't and disagrees with him - although obviously I'm not always perfect Wink) and he and I have an otherwise good relationship, so I want to keep it that way (I don't have any other family and we all live far apart).

BunnyPotter · 25/07/2014 20:00

I'm definitely not apologising though!!

I'd like to clarify some things to her, but she really has no idea what PA even is "I have no idea what you are talking about -- passive aggressive emails? I never had any thoughts of aggressiveness when I was writing earlier.." so it's probably pointless to engage.

There's, of course, no chance of her apologising, well, not unless it's sarcastic/passive aggressive/insincere!

DontstepontheMomeRaths · 25/07/2014 20:02

Never had any thoughts if aggressiveness Grin

No she doesn't get it does she.

OP posts:
Meerka · 25/07/2014 20:09

congrats, bunnypotter :)

Hissy · 25/07/2014 22:24

Bunny, no skype call, send an email and suggest she either cancel the trip, or look up a BnB.

She can go and stay with your DB instead.

GoodtoBetter · 26/07/2014 07:10

Def don't skype bunny

Fuzzywuzzywasabear · 26/07/2014 11:41

Hello all, I posted a few weeks ago about my family on another thread and a few ladies kindly answered I was hoping you wouldn't mind me joining you on here as the situation has developed and I need some advice on how to handle it.

Bit of background I got married late last year and my mother and to some extent my gran were a nightmare through out the planning they make up things that I never said, my mother tried to force me to uninvite my dad (they divorced when I was 18) on the day she wouldn't help me into my dress, showed no excitement just stood round with a face like a slapped arse she also told everyone I was behaving like a bridzilla and kicking off because we were running late! Cue husband coming to find me nicely but firmly asking if we can move things along (we had quite a complicated day as we had a civil ceremony and a religious blessing dh is not Christian) then the day after while we were still at the venue she had a massive public breakdown in the car park about how she had tried so hard but iam the most horrendous daughter.

My mum and gran then spent a good hour bad mouthing and bitching about me to my new husband and bridesmaids which resulted in me spending the first week of my honeymoon in tears, neither of them have spoken to us since, we sent Christmas present, thank you cards and our wedding DVD and have had no response by db has also gone NC telling me I am a horrible c**t and behaved like a child at my wedding (this is not true I very asked both my bridesmaids and husband all if who would say)

Dh has been in sporadic contact with DSF who I think is definitely an enabler to both dM and DGm we went home to see my paternal DGF who has been Ill recently, while we were there we rand to see if we could pick up the rest of the wedding things which had been left for the last 9 months at my mothers, they were on holiday so we couldn't go.

Then this week we get a phone call from DSF apparently DGm is in tears because we didn't visit her while we were home my dM has decided that I dislike her but hate my DGm, they don't understand why we are not talking to them?! DGm is saying she's guilty by association?!

They haven't spoken to us for 9 months they didn't even send us a Christmas card! Dh is now pressurising me into calling them but I can't live the next 40 years of my life having episodes like this!

The really sad thing is I told dh this would happen, that at some point after the wedding I'd offend them in someway and they'd go NC then start talking again like nothing had happened I just didn't think it would be less than 12 hours after!

My DGm and dM fit all the traits of being a narcissist although dM to a lesser extent I moved away from my home town at 25 and both their behaviour has declined the longer I've been away our wedding has opened my eyes to just how awful their behaviour is, they only love me conditionally and I've found this extremely difficult to process although I think I've always know our relationships weren't normal.

We are currently ttc and dM knows we were planning on trying the year after the wedding so I think this new development is linked to that, I don't know how to deal with this development I am not sure how to set out boundaries so that they don't ruin any other happy moments in my life.

Apologies for the essay! Thanks for reading if you managed to get this far! I hope some of it makes sense?!

Meerka · 26/07/2014 11:56

it does make sense and they're playing games with you. I think you know that quite clearly.

They aren't going to be the mother and grandmother (and hopefully soon grandmother/great grandmother) you ever want them to be.

Do you think thye will ever change? (very, very occasionally people do). If not, then these games will carry on and get a lot worse around the preg and birth and after. And they'll carry on with your children.

How to deal with it? It's going to be a source of neverending pain and hurt. How far do you want to put up with that for yoruself? I think that you need you speak your side clearly saying that "no, I don't hate gran, I don't know where you got that idea but it's not true" and back it up by actoins, by seeing her when it's convenient for you and on your terms. If they lie, tell them that that's not true and say what the truth is. Calmly. Don't ever get into a shouting match, and try not to let them see you upset. They thrive on reactoins like that. Keeping calm, keeping neutral and walking away when they kick off is the best way ... if you wish to keep contact at all. There's a good argument that you should just cut contact.

If you act with self respect and refuse to put up with their nastiness, in the end they will have to respect you too. Even if they don't like it. Either they will go NC or they will treat you better.

Regarding your brother, I don't think you should ever stand for being called a cunt. Before further contact, I'd want an apology. And if he ever did it again, that would be that, he had his chance and blew it.

AnAirOfHope82 · 26/07/2014 14:09

Hello I post here under different named from time to time. I went to visit my family on Thursday and im not sure if im being unreasonable or not.

I called them on three concentative days to say we were coming to stay for a week and we would come Thursday and take them shopping on Friday. Mum and dad go shopping friday when sil takes them and they provide childcare at their house for their son. I do not talk to brother or his family and they dont talk to us. So I give warning so they could let them know to make arrangment.

Instead mum and dad refused to cancel shopping with sil as they didnt want to upset her. So we said ok. Then mum asked us to take her to the doctor for a form we said no go with sil as you pass it and she work we dont it makes sence she take you as well. Mum refused to ask sil but didnt tell us way. Fine her choice.

So we, me, dh, ds 5 &ds 2 was given toast for bf then went to park to give them time to go shopping with sil. We get back at 12pm and they are just leaving to go. Dc were hungry so I give them the last four rich tea bikkys and there were no other food and told them to wait till they get back.

Turns out they were three hours and had lunch at the cafe when we were left at their house with no food on our own even thou we offered to take them shopping.

At 3pm mum cooked tea so children eat at 4pm after a nap as they had given up on the food.

So we packed up and came home at 6pm Sad

We took so food as they bought it for the kids and we both dont work and spent our money on the petrol to go there. They live 90 miles away and have never come to see us and have only seen their gc twice.

I think its rude to go out and leave guest at your house and to go have food when the kids had nothing for 7 hours is selfish. We didnt have money to just pop out to get food for them and we didnt know when they would be back and had no house key.

Were we unreasonable to leave?

AnAirOfHope82 · 26/07/2014 14:18

My dad puts golden boy and his kid before any of his dds and was fine upsetting me but not them. My dd is his only granddaughter that he has only seen four times in her life.

My dh has said he knows when we are not welcome and will not go again and I cant blame him.

yongnian · 26/07/2014 14:28

Hello all.
Just wondering if I could ask for a little support? I've posted before and had great advice and tend to lurk along. I haven't been able to offer anyone advice myself, sorry as I'm a bit in a mess about it all myself yet....anyhow, I'm just trying to steel myself not to respond to the latest accusation of being neglectful to narc M and enabler DF and of avoiding them.
I feel the timing of this latest histrionics is significant because there is a significant family event coming up shortly at which I will yet again refuse to be manipulated into. This is relatively new for me to have the strength to do, as is the low level of contact I have. Other factors are narc M is bored as her latest round of distractions have come to a halt, and she also knows my ultra supportive DH is away just now so I'm alone.
I feel like responding that not only did I initiate contact only yesterday (they were not available - apparently the 'after thought/last minute ness of this is not good enough to count)...I actually have a very young baby, an older child who is on the point of being assessed ASD, on school hols...not only that, last week I was threatened in my home by someone locally (with baby in arms and older child present and terrified) and the police had to be called. Narc M doesn't know this last thing (because in all her contacts she never ever asks how we are) So frankly, I'm a bit under strain at the mo. DH and I have also had news this week of a bereavement of a friend which we're sad about. - but again, narc M would have no idea as never thinks to ask.
I am tempted to respond to her accusation with all of this - but I shouldn't really should I? I have enough to deal with without being told I'm not good enough for constantly dancing attendance. I've been successfully maintaining my boundaries lately and this is just an attempt to get me back under control isn't it? FWIW I did get in touch directly with DF to find how he was etc..please tell me whether I'm doing the right thing...I'm just baffled as to how it can all be my fault as per the rest of my entire life previously. I am reallywillingto own the bits that are mine if I am out of order.
Thanks in advance to anyone who could support and wishing us all on this thread better, brighter, healthier, happier futures.

AnAirOfHope82 · 26/07/2014 14:37

I think its fine to talk to your ddad but I would not reply to your mum untill your dh is back.

Dont get drawn in again and you dont have to answer her right now.

Can you say you didnt get the email?

AnAirOfHope82 · 26/07/2014 14:40

I only talk to my mum on the phone and its only once every two weeks and I keep it light and breezed. Just small talk.

I have given up on having real parents now.

AnAirOfHope82 · 26/07/2014 14:44

They never see us but provide childcare for exbrother three days per week and shopping on the friday and then exbro takes his kid there on Sunday morning as he has nowhere else to go.

We go and I get asked when are you leaving by my dad!

The same man that used to verbally abuse me as a child and beat me up.

AnAirOfHope82 · 26/07/2014 14:51

Dysfuncational family
I dont talk to my exbrother
I dont talk to my sister
I dont talk to my dad
They dont talk to me, two beat me up as a child and one told me to go fuck my self. In the end I start thinking its me. There is something about me they dont like.

I AM NOT A VICTIM, I WILL NOT PUT UP BEING TREAT LIKE THIS BY YOU.

HolyShmoley · 26/07/2014 15:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

yongnian · 26/07/2014 16:13

Thank you both for taking the time to reply! It means a lot.
Air of hope, thanks for the advice, it really helps...can I ask were you beaten by parents and siblings? In my family, there is only one member who didn't beat me...sounds similar to you...it is really hard not to think its you..but they are in the wrong not you...
Holyschmoley yes DRAMA is not the word! So beyond tired of it...thank you for supporting...I will use that phrase....on repeat!

Meerka · 26/07/2014 16:43

agreed, yong, stay away! I hope your husband is back soon, it really sounds like he needs to be there for you. You've got a lot to cope with!!

airofhope ... the best way to deal with it is by staying neutral and not engaging in the guilt tripping / guilt / anger /pity games. With you so much though, my god the drama is tiring even when you've successfully disengaged, people like that are so draining to be around.

yongnian · 26/07/2014 17:06

Thanks meerka - he's back tomorrow. He was really gutted she was pulling this stunt just as he was leaving (no coincidence eh she knew that) hence I thought I'd come on here rather be trapped alone with it.
I drafted a response along the lines of 'I see. Well, I am doing my best under trying circumstances which include x y and z but as you don't feel that's good enough, perhaps you'll find better support elsewhere'
I don't plan to send it, think it will only fuel the drama and engage with her nonsense.
I feel she lost the right to my never ending support when she failed to protect me from sustained physical abuse in my own home all through my childhood. She handed some of it out herself, not to mention all the mental and emotional abuse.
'Not good enough?' She's the one who is not good enough...particularly when it comes to having any meaningful relationship with my dcs. Eldest has her all worked out anyway, without me even saying a word.
I don't think I am out of order not to allow this person to have control of me ever again, am I?

Meerka · 26/07/2014 18:01

No. No you're not.

Actually no one should control you ever again.

Agreed don't send that response. Remain neutral and polished and don't engage. You could wait til your husband is home before saying anything at all; or simply don't reply. Or say "sorry you feel that way" with a sort of stony neutrality and imagine a solid wall of stone between you and her.

AnAirOfHope82 · 26/07/2014 18:15

Helpful statements:

Im sorry you feel that way.
Did you mean to be so rude
You are entitaled to feel that way but I disagree
You are allowed your opioin --but I disagree-

Dont write/say the striked thru

Say nothing at all as you cant argue with someone that will not argue back.

My family dynamic is mum and dad in their 70s two older sisters 52 & 49 my exbro 38 and me 32 so 10 year gap. I was an accident and should not have been born, my mum told me at 7yo. My mum, dad and exbro hit me. My sisters stood by and watched. There is lots of history as im sure with lots of posters on here. The time my exbro brough a convicted rapist to our home when my mum and dad was on holiday and he pulled a knife on me when I was 13yo ect ect ect

Your common garden neglect, verbual and phyisical abuse from birth till I was 15 yo and school called ss on my mum and dad. My dad is the worst and my mum enables him. His dog bite my sister and he throw my sister out and took the dog up to his bedroom!

Drama: I said ok to every think and then said I was ill and we went home as there is not point reasoning with these people but my mum did say when I called her to let her know we were home it was because they had gone out for three hours and hadnt left any food for us and blamed my dad. I agreed that was the reason and she said im not going to arguee with you so im going now.

I feel like I have a chest infection Sad

I also feel like I had to justify myself to you!

AnAirOfHope82 · 26/07/2014 18:18

Not you but myself!

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