"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

Thread opener here: webaunty.co.uk/mumsnet/
You may need to right-click and 'unblock' it after downloading it.

It's almost May 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

I'd just say he didn't fancy a big holiday. I really wouldn't say you maybe doing something smaller as she'll try and invite herself to that too. Keep it short. No big explanations are necessary.

Next time she swats DDs hand, ask her not to do that. That's not ok.

Tell her you're not going, cancel it and book something else and don't tell her, or she WILL invite herself.

Hi dont your right , I tend to go in to big explanations as I know she will offer multiple alternatives.

Telling her she couldn't be presents at the birth was a nightmare! It started off with " don't forget to tell me when you go in labour as I was present at all the rest" she actually invited her 13 year old dgs too! She just did not take no. That no one but me and dp would be even at the hospital. She said she would wait in the car park in her car! She wrecked my last few months and I took me to threaten dp that I wouldn't even tell him if he didn't get her to back off - to which she flew out of the country so when he phoned her to tell her of the birth - she had her own little surprise.

Your right about the hand swatting. There have been a few things like that, like taking dd dummy out of her mouth saying " you don't need that". I need to grow a back bone. I've seen her with her 13 year old DGS and she can be creepy. I swore I would never let her be like that with dd2

I can't even believe I asked her t come away with us! WTF was I thinking!

I'm going to email her now.

Hi, I don't mean to hijack the thread-and I'm not really sure what I'm asking-but I just need to vent. I saw another thread on here somewhere about someone asking how to cope with parents that can't accept they won't be grandparents and I felt this wave of anger about everything I've been through with narc mother.

Backstory-DB was golden child, I was scapegoat. Promised driving lessons for 17th, but then said she had no money, she then promptly went on 6month holiday in Europe. Many more things like saying uni was easy for me, but hard for DB, I always did chores he didn't, telling me how she's going to kill herself and how my dad was horrible to her and I'm just like him. I had horrible bf who she adored from 15-20, she loved idea of us and even when I said he cheated/stole my money she helped convince me to stick with it. I broke up and dated now dh who she hated. She called me a slut/whore/druggy for dating him (she said I could only get a druggy as bf so I must be one) then threw me out of house (literally threw my things out of window) even though I paid rent while still at uni. DB and gran are her enablers and went nc with me when she did.

A year into marriage I made contact with DB who convinced me to contact her, I'm a bit tougher with her but still get walked over. She knows we're having trouble ttc (7 years) but has said I'm not getting anything in will as I can't pass it on (DB still lives at home/no gf or kids), then says she's seen my future child in a dream which I find unbelievably upsetting. She constantly does sad face about lack of grand kids. When I confront her about this she says she's had a m/c in past or was infertile from a date before I was born, she lies so that it seems everyone's bad to her and never says sorry just at most 'sorry you feel like that'.

I'm always really slow when in an argument so I normally just stand there when she insults me and then a day later it hits me what she's said. I don't feel I can go nc as I don't want to lose DB or gran, but would love advice on how to get through these 'attacks'. Sorry for such a long post.

"I need to grow a back bone. I've seen her with her 13 year old DGS and she can be creepy. I swore I would never let her be like that with dd2"

Yes to the first sentence and I would keep your children well away from his mother now. They do not get anything nice from this and she is already batting away DD2s hand. Its unacceptable on any level. Also they make for being deplorably bad grandparents.

You need to break free of the notion that his mother is somehow "different" and will behave differently to your own narcissist mother because she is not. It is not possible to have any sort of relationship with a narcissist and she will use your children as her own source of narcissistic supply.

brrrrr she sounds horrible, shiz.

The price of being in contact with your brother and gran could be your mental health and it's certainly your emotional health.

However, ways to actually stop her getting at you: Im sorry, but I cant see many for you. Attacking you for not having a child is a shitty thing to do. Nothing is going to stop that hurting.

If you do conceive, nothing is going to stop her being horrible during your preg and you will, Im certain, have a living hell around / after the birth. Almost certainly she'll find some other way to make it known you're out of the will too. I'm sorry but in this case, I really don't think that being in contact with her is the right thing to do.

Can you be in contact with your brother and gran -without- her? is there any chance at all. Difficult if you brother is stil at home, but could he visit you at your house?

If you absolutely cannot cut contact then the only way is to detach and to smile and present a neutral face no matter how much it hurts. If she sees you're hurt, I bet she's happy. Neutral noises are the way to go. But I don't think you'll be able to hide the hurt and so you'll give her what she wants.

Whether you stay in contact or not, I do think you need some therapy with a skilled therapist.

What does your husband think? He must see how she drags you down and down and down :/

softly it sounds like you had a bit of a turning point there, just letting her get on with making a fuss and trying to show you up, and simply not caring

Get the champagne out, book a holiday elsewhere and never let her alone with your daughter! :)

Shizlack,

Its a pity you ever made contact with your brother at all but its done now. Their plan to draw you back into their web of dysfunction again worked. They were never concerned for you at all; they wanted you to continue the role they assigned to you. Your mother likely used him as one of her "winged monkeys" to do her bidding; as one of her enablers he did so willingly. Also he is the golden child in this scenario too. Narcissists often have a golden child/scapegoat dynamic going on.

You've been trained by her as well to be an extension of herself (hence you telling her about your ttc difficulties); you perhaps feel like you have no real identity at all and wonder who the hell you are. Her comment "sorry you feel like that" is actually very passive aggressive on her part as well.

There is no easy one way of getting through these attacks short of you maintaining and enforcing boundaries (which are far too low currently); you need to raise your boundaries and go as low contact as you can if you really cannot bring yourself to go no contact currently. You may find that given time the decision to go no contact will come easier to you. You seem very much immersed in fear, obligation and guilt.

You've already lost DB and gran really because they have become her willing enablers. You cannot rely on either of these two at all to help you because they will not do so.

I would suggest you read the website entitled Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers as well as reading "Children of the Self Absorbed" written by Nina W Brown.

shiz I re-read your post.

Why does she hate you so much?

She may well hate you so much because you perhaps remind her a lot of the man she was in a relationship with.

Where is your Dad now Shizlack?. Gone from her life?. It would not at all surprise me if they were no longer together, men who marry narcissistic women often find themselves dumped. A man who stands up to his wife will not be tolerated for long, and will either leave or be kicked out. Narcissists simply don't have healthy and functioning relationships, and so there is either no relationship, or a dysfunctional and enabling one.

Thank you for the replies, I do know that she isn't being what a mother should be, so I see she isn't adding anything to my life. DH thinks she's incredibly jealous of me.

My dad was her second marriage, my DB was a partner who left her when she was preg. Dm left df when I was 8 and fought custody battle so he wouldn't see me. She sent back gifts etc and I don't know where he is. She married when I was 12 divorced again when I was 19, she accused me of flirting with him (obviously didn't, I did say I liked football so we could watch it together/had crush on players!)

Dh thinks as we have happy marriage, I'm quite positive mostly and think we have a great life, friends, home... DH thinks she wishes my life was more like hers so does sad face to make me feel bad/holds ttc over me as at least she did that.

Sorry not meaning to drip feed-
I don't think I can have a relationship with just DB and gran, but then I guess they're making that choice. We luckily already live abroad due to dh's work.

She does say I'm like df, which normally upsets me as it's a criticism, not said in a nice way. So I'm not actually sure if I am like him, I don't remember much about him.

The pattern of your mother's behaviour from earlier on is bad enough (charging you rent then throwing your stuff out! broken promises, lies about money, the names she called you) that it can't be just jealousy of your life now. This goes further back.

i'm wondering if she's punishing your father by taking it out on you - errr what Attilla said! hard to say without knowing her, but the pattern of dislike / hate / desire to wound is clear from earlyish on. How was she with you before the split?

How does your brother see her? does he see how she treats you or is he blinded?

If you stood up to her and said 'I'd rather not discuss this any more" about something would she become even more poisonous? or do you think she'd accept it and behave?

i really feel that digging at you like this, trying to hurt and to rub sore points into open wounds, is long term very damaging for you. And more than ever, I'd go with attilla's view that if children do come along, she would be absolutely poisonous

I've actually just about read every page on the daughters of narc mothers website and as well as the replies here and am starting to feel like this is bigger than I thought it was.

Dh was the first I ever confided in and he thought it was jealousy, but now getting a fresh perspective I can see that wouldn't make sense. It just so happens she also hates any good fortune I do have.

DB instantly sides with her and gran just stays quiet and backs away then mumbles about how my mum is. She doesn't all out say hurtful things in front of people, whatever's done can be laughed off or said because she is hurt so it's acceptable. The 'seeing my future child' thing was said away from dh who went mental when I told him, because she does sad face/stress is killing her/nobody loves her I always ask him not to say anything. I don't say anything to her normally as she tells others I've been shouting and screaming at her. I remember she was hitting me once and I put my hands up to stop her and her hand bounced off mine and hit her back and she lay on the blood screaming that I'd attacked her and made me swear on a bible I didn't....when I did she said I was going to hell for it and told our minister (which does mean a lot to me)

Her and bio dad had bad relationship, the only time I remember them 'playing' with me was when they got me to say horrible things back and forth to each other. It was when I was older I remembered this. Step dad and her didn't seem to get on either, she was 'so much smarter than him' and whittled him down.

Also have been reading back posts on this thread just nodding and agreeing. Seeing it all and understanding such horrible sad things and knowing some of those situations is making this more real. Thank you so much everyone for getting back to me.

Oh my gosh... I mean ground! She sly on the ground not blood

lay I'm not drunk! I swear!

That's quite alright. I knew you meant to write the word "ground" and autocorrect is a funny old thing generally.

It was manipulative of her as well (as well as being typical narc) to make you swear on a Bible and tell your Minister about this as well (to further garner sympathy).

I would certainly keep any children you do go onto have well away from your birth family particularly your mother and her all too willing enablers/winged monkeys. I am very low contact with my narc ILs and NC with BIL, am more than happy to remain so as well.

OMG Shiz she sounds AWFUL, run like the wind and don't look back!!! No, seriously I think NC has to be the way to go here.

my mother did the physical-attacking thing, then when you try to defend yourself she screamed that you attacked her too. Or outright denied it and told everyone you were a fantastist and mentally unstable. It really sucks.

sadly, I think you're right. It is deeper than you realised.

suspect you have a lot of musing to do in the coming weeks and years. we've been there too.

One thing. How far does your husband bite his tongue for your sake? How does he see the effect she has on you? It might be a good idea to sit down one evening and talk it out. It could be revealing and most of all, it will help you deal with her as a united front which is absolutely essential.

I don't know where to start and I want to send hugs to you all as your stories seen so much more awful than mine but I need a rant x

I have 2 older brothers but was dressed like them with short hair, my mum is a snob and her answer to everything is 'well everyone did it in those days'. I'm not that clever and was told as a teenager that I wasn't pretty enough to marry a doctor (lol) or clever enough to get a good job. I was told by her to not introduce my then bf to my friends as they are so much prettier than me. I must add that I was asked to catwalk model professionally, I didn't as I thought they were taking the piss. She is hugely overbearing and has a telephone voice she uses when she's displeased or talking to those beneath her - shop assistants and waitresses usually. I ended up in a telationship with a man 20 yrs older at 19. She pushed me to marry him (how lucky I was, you'll never worry about money). That as you can imagine ended badly, he was controlling EA and one divorce and 3 kids later she said she didn't know why I married him and she never liked him. I tried to leave sooner but she told me I'd made my bed, I was being selfish and couldn't stay at theirs (this was before children). She'd gossip to me about my brothers and try to make me jealous, they were both going through divorces so I stayed in my rubbish marriage.

She never babysat (at this point I lived miles away) and her visits were expected with full hosting duties. Her trips were so she could boast to her friends about being the perfect grandma. I divorced and started alone with the children 10 miles away. I cleaned toilets to feed us and fitted what work I could around them - again they never babysat. I never expected them to. My father died sadly and I fell in love and moved 60 miles away. Everyone, friends and my fiancé thought she's amazing but she's not. She's got an evil streak. She's 80 and not in great health, she's deaf but won't admit it. If she asks in the phone about our week she can't hear but pretends she does but she'd rather talk about the village flower show/her awful dog/who didn't turn up to do the flowers in church. She lives in a 1950s daily mail ideal. We had a court case earlier this year (my oh was abused as a child) I told her and her response? Oh dear, never mind. The golden child lives in America. My other brother collects trollies in Scotland, he has a phd. So I am the closest geographically. We had her for Christmas twice, last year I couldn't face it and begged Scottish bro to do his duty (she bitched at the food and everything so god knows what she says about us). It was my birthday last August, hers is two days before mine and she emotionally blackmailed staying for a week. It was hell. But for the first time my oh and children caught a glimpse of the real her. An hour before her arrival I had a tearful kennel owner on the phone explaining about the kennels - my mum had put this woman through hell as she didn't think the room her precious dog was staying in was good enough. I had to put up with her treating waitresses and workers like shit, had her putting everything down in a passive aggressive way (mil's bf is a 'funny little man', 'what a funny little house'). It was embarrassing.

Now when she calls I get the silent treatment (on the phone LOL!) if she asks whether I've seen bfs mum recently! I love his mum and we have cocktails about once a month or less! She'll bitch about my brothers, anyone. She tries to get me jealous about how often they call or how my nieces sent her an email. When my dad died I called her or called in everyday and said 'I love you', no response so I don't try anymore. She'll give me a hug and air kiss if there are people nearby and complain that I (me) am not a 'huggy' person when I don't respond. We've never hugged, kissed , she's never told me she loves me.

So that's me. A damaged, no confidence fook up! I can't even drive as I know how rubbish I am. I guess I just wanted to offload without being told how evil I am, you've only got one mother (her favourite), or being judged. It's rolling around to August again, our birthdays, and then Christmas. I don't know what to do.

Oh and my fiancé and his family and friends are all 'not of her class', so although our wedding will be a hilarious riot, she'll hate it.

Welcome to the stately homes thread. I won't call you by your name as I think it should be changed to something like newbeginnings.

Now you recognise how toxic she is and how damaged you are by her, the healing can begin. You can learn to see yourself how others see you. Not stupid or a failure, or not pretty enough.

You are enough as you are. Don't let her ruin your life anymore. Come and talk to us, start to detach from her and work through the guilt to a new freedom x

Part of the pain here is that you want a loving, normal, pleasant mother ... same as all of us here . But you haven't got one, from what you say at best she's indifferent, at worst, unpleasant. From what you say, actually highly unpleasant, that poor kennel owner!

its good if your OH has begun to see that evil streak.

The other part of the pain is that god, it's unpleasant being around someone who's poisonous!

Don't worry about otehr people's experiences being overtly 'worse'. The dramatic stuff is horrible to live through - but so is the subtle drip poison and it's a lot harder to pin down. It's just as nasty and the wounds are sometimes subtler and harder to identify.

It does sound like you have a good other half, your wedding sounds like it shoudl be great fun :)

Is it possible to begin to emotionally detach? attilla and others here have good book recommendations that explain some of what is actually going on and give good pointers on ways of coming to terms with it and what to actually do.

personally I would suggest for a start reducing the amount of information you give her. Staying neutral helps and not letting her see that she's got to you. It would also help to work on ssaying No to her. "I'm afraid you can't come for a week, we've got XXXX happening". A nice neutral polished stone wall approach.

Most of all you need to talk to your OH about this and to get his support. You've been trained all your life to put up with this and accept it as normal and normal people often crumble a bit in the face of emotional manipulation, becuase they have, you know. Hearts. Which ruthless people can use. Your OH can help you stay strong and can maybe even deal with her himself.

We're always here if you need to post.

Oh you poor thing, the person who gave birth to you sounds awful. I have no advice other than please look at the Daughters of Narcisistic Mothers website. I've found it quite therapeutic pointing at descriptions and saying "that's it!"

I'm glad your lovely OH can see what your going on about. I hope your Mum isn't ruining your wedding planning, maybe she'll but out if it isn't her thing. P.S. I'm sure your OH wouldn't agree with your name.x

meerka my OH often says not to speak to her again as we were nc before, but when they are together he tries at first and if she does anything at all (woe is me/sad face) he pushes all her buttons/boundaries as he gets so cross. I suppose I'm also asking a lot from him as he was called all the bad things under the sun when instead of letting me be homeless when she chucked me out we just moved in together (we were planning to, it just happened on a different timescale)

so in other words he winds her up? How she must hate him!

I do think your OH is right though. In this case, I don't think healing between you is possible because she does not want any.

Thanks so much everyone! I've been avoiding this thread as I worry I'm overthinking her behaviour and making mountains out of molehills.

My OH is amazing, he deals with everything though humour. If he answers the phone to her he'll pretend to be a Chinese takeaway or talk about some random topic or whether her awful dog had died yet knowing she can't hear - on top of her deafness he's a broad Geordie which you can imagine goes down well ;)

I started a new job last Friday and haven't told her I got it, I mentioned going for an interview but she didn't ask where or what for. His mum is on holiday and texted me good luck and how pleased she was. Argh she drives me potty! Her closest friend of 50 yrs husband died and my mum didn't want to go to the funeral, she said it was too soon (2 yrs after my dad died) but I think it was as she wouldn't be the only widow around now. That makes me sound awful I know! I told her she had to go for her friend so she did then bitched about how my dads was better etc. Jesus!

I have got a snapping point though, we're trying (a bit!) to have a baby (our first together), I'm in my 40s so double hard! One hint of disgust if we do manage then she's out of my life for good.

Thanks again, xxx