"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's almost May 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

The other thing to say is that your dad may seem like a powerful, intimidating person, but inside he's weak. My own father exhibits similar behaviour (not the violence, but certainly being contemptuous, overbearing and dismissive). It seems like they're the ones holding all the cards, completely sure of themselves, whilst you're the one being harried and doubting yourself.

It couldn't be further from the truth. They behave like tyrants to cover up the fear. In mine's case, the happier and more independent I became, the worse it got. He was so full of anger that I'd achieved what he hadn't: a happy, functional marriage, financial security, the prospect of a family. He just had to attack it and belittle it, because it made him feel back on top. And, of course, I'm a woman, so he can't stand me being assertive, competent, or cleverer than him. It sounds like your dad may have an equal problem with women?

I can't exactly say I've sorted my relationship with him out to the extent I want to, but I do realise now that I'm the one holding the cards. And so are you. It's possible to deal with your dad; he's nowhere near as big as he's made himself seem.

You can do it

Thank you for your replies.

I am not intimidated by him any more, although I was when I was still at home. I definitely agree that it is a problem he has with women. He got much worse with me when I was 14/15/16 and it has carried on from there. Also, he is completely different with my brother, who thinks he is great.

The thing I struggle most with is actually my mother's role in this. I am very close to her, probably more so because my relationship with my dad is so poor. I do not want to cut her out of my life. My dad, to be honest, I have sort of written off already and I have him around as an appendage to my mother.

In a weird twisted way, I think my mum stayed with him 'for the sake of the children' One of my earliest memories is them saying they would split up, and how devasted I was by that. And then I think as you say, they evolved this strange dynamic.

He has been crap to my daughter once when we were at their house (200 miles away from mine), and if he is again, I will ask him to leave.

I do think I need to speak to a counsellor. And yes, I think it has has a deep impact on me.

"He has been crap to my daughter once when we were at their house (200 miles away from mine), and if he is again, I will ask him to leave"

You both tell him to leave, not ask. And what if he blows up at you, your mother sides with or looks embarrassed by her DH or they both refuse to leave?. This could really escalate.

I would not personally give you dad a potential second opportunity to have a pop at you or your DD for that matter. Once was more than enough.

Such men like your father hate women, all of them starting with his own mother. Do you have any idea what his own childhood was like; pound to a penny there was abuse within it.

Your mother for her own reasons stayed with her man. She had a choice and put him first above her children. She should never have burdened you as a child with a choice that she made; you have not thanked her for staying with him. You likely think she's been daft to do so.

You have a choice as well. I can get why you do not want to cut her off but ultimately you may need to do so for your own sakes. Neither of them make for being emotionally healthy grandparents now, neither seem to have been really great parents when you were all growing up.

There is definite neglect in his childhood. He used to come home from primary school , aged 5, and make and light the coal fire and make his own dinner. His mother was a housekeeper for the posh family in the village.

can pity him for the bad times, but it's the here and now when he's passing the damage on. It's not on.

I sometimes feel very sorry for people who turn into nightmares because they never had a chance. But only feel that sorry from a distance and with my own life in a reasonable state and not being ground down by them!

Hello all, hope you don't mind me jumping in but I need some advice :-

My mil is a narc but recently after we had a bit of upset last year has been flying under the radar, As dp chose my side and she knew he would go NC as he has done it before.

Dp knows full well what his mum is like but puts up with it due to her bring 'just mum' BIL does the same although mil has crucified SIL over the years.

Any way she has been relatively 'quiet' just a few snide digs, nothing really to go complete NC over although I tend to keep my distance.

It's dp birthday late this year and I want to surprise him with a holiday. Dd1 (18) wants to come with her bf, my dgm would like to come , she is very friendly with dp. Because of this I felt I had to ask mil.

She didn't want to come at first when I asked. Kept ignoring my emails. Then I suggested she bring a friend (who happens to be dd1 aunty) mil eventually agreed (hmm)

Now, mil goes away quite a lot with her friends and the are quiet rowdy. I asked her not to invite these women. Dp would not enjoy their company and it's birthday. He and I do not want to spend a week with theses other women . It would turn in to a big loud piss up.

Today I seen mil and she told me that over the weekend she has seen this group and they are now all coming.

I said there are not.

She just said "they said they are'...

So mil thinks that her sons birthday surprise holiday is actually going to be about her and her mates getting pissed all day.

She is messaging me as I post about the links so they can book it.

I don't even want to go, dp will hate it and dd1 won't come either now.

Not sure how to handle this.

It's very difficult as it's meant to be a surprise. You've tried to keep her happy and keep the peace by inviting her but she hasn't respected your wishes. You're going to have to stand up to her. You're probably very worried at the fall out and his surprise being ruined.

Have you paid for anything yet? As you can still plan something else if needs be. It's his birthday. Don't be forced into anything you do not want. It doesn't have to be her way.

Thanks for replying!

I've not paid for anything yet, it's a fab deal on a sale. Really cheap and great hotel so would be hard pushed for something else as good.

Also if this group of women come my ex mil ( who I really like) would feel put out or want to come and dp would hate it.

I think I'm going to bite the bullet and finally stand up to her.

She has done this to turn in in to her holiday.

They'll be other deals. This ones not worth it. Just say you've changed your mind but she's welcome to go with her friends. Or something else bland and innocuous and then distance yourself.

I'd book something else quietly for just immediate family.

She may keep pushing, she may ask what you plan to do instead. Be ready to roll out the same responses over and over.

Truth be told all this moving around her carefully to keep the peace must be exhausting. Going nc again would make things infinitely easier on you.

What do the kids make of it all?

Dd1(18) just mine, doesn't like to be around her and feels like she wants to pull out.

Dd2(1) loves her.

I've emailed and told her she needs to uninvited them. She emailed back saying she will keep it quiet till it's booked and that she understands

It was all too easy. I should have backed out as I know this is going to cause a shit storm.

I would love to go NC and have really distanced myself after her epic melt down after not being allowed to be present at dd2 birth. She actually flew out of the country in secret on the day she was due as she couldn't bare to be left out.

Dp went NC with her fir two years after she actually physically attracted his ex partner.

She has come close to the knuckle with me a few times .eg..letting me think he was having an affair when he wasn't (he was secretly organising something for my birthday- birthdays are big in our house)

I think it's kind of set a bench mark though, if it's minor things he just lets it pass, if it's a biggy then he will stand up to her. So she constantly flies just below radar.

Give it a couple of days and back out. The fall out won't be as bad as you think. Don't book anything. Just leave it tonight after your conversation. But go back to her in a couple of days and say you've changed your mind.

Honestly. It's not worth the stress and aggravation. His birthday will be ruined otherwise. Stand firm. There's still time if you haven't booked.

I agree with math. Back out, you haven't booked. She'll ruin it otherwise. Just say you've changed your mind.

Sorry, don't step, I always mix up the mome rath bit of your name.

agreed, back out. If your husband would hate his own surprise party, then it's going to be a nightmare and a failure if it goes ahead now. There will be other deals.

mome .... what is a mome rath and why can't you step on one? :)

Yes your right I'm going too.

I'm just going to say we can't afford it and will book one closer to the time, a last min one.

The fact she replied so quickly and easily obliged makes me really suspicious - this is not my mil!

It's from Alice in Wonderland. Google it. The you tube clips are great.

I've just told dp.

He said " what you did wrong was tell my mum!"

He said what ever I've planned tell them it's cancelled and we will just go.

So I will .

I bet you feel relieved. And buy telling him and having it in the open, you won't have to feel like the sword of Damocles is hanging over you if she does decide to stir up a storm. Well done.

Don't do it again. Keep her at arms length. Sadly with people like that if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile.

Sleep well

I do feel relieved !

Also it lets dp know I am trying yet she is still pushing boundaries.

The funny thing is I don't hate the woman. I just see her very clearly for what she is. My own 'd' m is a full on certified narc from hell, who I've been NC with for ten years. Mil isn't even on her level, so when she pulls crap like this I spot it for what it is straight away.

On Xmas Eve she turned up and said she was so depressed she wanted was thinking of suiside. So I stood up and said ' I'll give you two space ' and left the room as I've been through this crap with my own DM. Dp shouted me back in less than two mins and was tellng her she was being selfish.

softly, tell her its cancelled but really, try to find another. Because she might not quite believe it and squirrel away until she finds out you are actually going. Or else she might book it on her own with her friends!

about the suicide thing.

Those who've been there know very well, too well, what the suicide games are like. Your reaction is a great deal more dignified and sensible than falling apart or trying to rally support round. I hate those games more than almost any other, they are so cruel.

I'm not meaning people genuinely in serious distress, hopefully that's clear. Talking about the people who say it and perhaps even mean it for the evanescent moment but who are way, way too good at self-preservation to ever really do it - and who know very well how to use the upset others feel about it.

softlysoftly

re your comment:-
"I would love a relationship with her as I miss the role my mother should have played but she only see that there is only one role for a woman in her family and that her. And I feel sad about that".

You have every right to feel sad about that but you know really this is not going to happen ever. You need to shatter your own fantasy of that ever happening, the reality is that his mother is also a narcissist. Narcissists after all have made the terrible choice not to love and it is not possible anyway to have ANY sort of relationship with a narcissist.

How many faces does a narc have really?....
As many as they feel able to maintain, its all image and artifice to these people.

On a wider level I would keep your children completely away from this woman, your 1 year old has NO idea at all what this woman is like and she could well use your child as narcissistic supply. Your job amongst many is to protect your children from such malign influences.

Narcissists as well make for being deplorably bad grandparents.

Hi attila and meerka

I'm actually going to tell her today that after speaking to dp he said he didn't fancy a big family holiday, as we've not been away on our own for ages, so this time, it will just be us and sorry for any inconvenience.

If I know mil enough this will cause great offence (at her personal rejection) and she will seeth in silence (at least to me) I really don't care who she slags me off too.

I've got this new strength after realising something.

Yesterday when we went to visit her in the cafe she runs, she made dd (14 months) some lasagne and she started eating it with her hands. Mil swatted them off twice and said "no, use your spoon" and tried getting her to use a spoon. yeah right.

I just let dd carry on. When she had finished and I was taking her out she put her messy hands on the back if the seat. Mil complained that it was 'manky' (hardly) and made a big show of getting on her hands and needs and unbuttonng it and struggling, asking people for help. asking them if it would go in the wash ect...

I actually didn't take any notice (I think I block out about 90% of what she says/does) I only just realised, at that fuss was for me. Because I didn't force a 14 month old to use a spoon! I had ruined the baby feeding chair! t was a couple of orange hand prints on a plastic chair seat! The funny thing is her efforts went unnoticed at the time

She will never stop being an arse. I'm being upfront with her. She's not coming and neither are her mates.

Thanks fir replying