"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's almost May 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Hi all, I never thought I would have to post on this thread in this capacity again. (Thought of myself more as an advice giver rather than needing advice.)

I went NC with my mother (and therefore Stepfather) in November 2010. As a result my older brother went NC with me. This was not a problem as he has many, many issues himself and has proved himself as a narcissist too.

To give a brief history, I went NC as my mother provided the cherry on top of the cake/nailed the final nail into the coffin when she found and contacted my father on FB. She had never ever told me anything about my father all of my life, then refused to tell me anything about him once this all came about but proceeded to have public conversations about him to anyone and everyone on FB like the previous 30 years had never happened.
I felt forced into getting in contact with my father before I was ready as I know what my mother is like and wanted him to get to know the real me rather than the made up version from my mother.

Although my real father tried to be polite about it and not paint my mother at all in a bad light, he had tried to contact me when I was a child but basically she told him that she had moved on. As he is not from this country I would have needed her help to write and post letters etc and she obviously wasn't prepared to do this.

This all happened nearly 4 years ago and since having NC with these people my life has been wonderful.

This morning I have received a message on FB from my older brother (who had previously blocked me on FB). This is the message:

Hello Mampam

I hope this message finds you well. For at least two years now I have been urging our mother to contact so that she might explain the situation regarding your Dad, to no avail. Obviously I am not aware how much contact you have had since a line of communication was opened up with him so it may be that you already know what's been going on.
I just feel that after years of our mother being economical about what she tells us it's time that everything is out in the open so as not to add to the pain of what you have been through regarding your dad's absence and the lack of info.
It is my personal opinion that our mothers behaviour over the last 2/3 years have sunk to new depths and I feel you should know what has gone on.
You may feel you have washed your hands of all of it and not wish to hear from me/her or anyone else connected with the whole sorry mess! If this is the case I of course respect that.
If you do feel you would like me to put you in the picture please don't hesitate to reply. Just feel you have a right to the truth.

Older brother

Yes he's a clever bastard isn't he? Trying to reel me in by dangling the carrot of more information in front of me. Acting like he cares by making out he is doing the right thing by wanting to put me in the picture. If he was that concerned he would have just told me whatever it is he thinks I should know instead of trying to reel me in with the promise of information.

He didn't care almost 4 years ago when he cut me out of his life just at a time when I needed him the most as he was the only person in the world who could understand what I was going through and the only person who would understand the hurtful legacy our mother has given us (he also has never known his own father).

The truth is I know that my mother and stepfather have split up after 20+ years of marriage. I know that prior to this my mother had been saying that my father was the love of her life and she wanted to go to his country and see him.
I also have had an inkling that she is in contact with my father, as a result I have not let myself get attached to him, amongst other reasons. She was never going to do the right thing and let me finally have a relationship with him after 30 years was she?

I came to terms with the fact that I am just one of those unlucky people who were not meant to have parents, not in the moral sense of the word anyway. All I can do is concentrate on being a great parent to my DC and making sure that they are the type of lucky people who do have parents who love and nurture them like all children deserve.

I am going to reply to my brother because I am strong enough to do so without being reeled back in by all the narcissistic bullshit. I can see through all of that. I am curious to know what he's got to say but I am not going to bite to it. I am going to tell him that I have no interest in what our mother does and I do not want her to contact me.

Thanks if you've read this far, I just needed to get it down in writing and sound it out with you all

I have not been here for many years, but I remember you Mampam. I am very impressed with your insight. I do worry though that even replying will "hoover" you back into their game.

I feel that strongly, that I have re-registered here to say so.

Similar thing happened to me, after years of NC.

It was without doubt THE WORST decision ever, as they do not change and the game doesn't change.

I totally get why you would reply though.

Tummies know best...listen to yours.

With love. xxx

mampam

I would write a reply to him - but not send it. I am not suggesting that you could not resist any rubbish he will throw at you but by replying at all it puts you directly back into your birth family's dysfunction. Any communication you send him will be seen by him as a "reward" and he could well go onto bother you even more. Its been designed by him for you to reply to it; I daresay that his behaviour is now of the "hoovering" variety, it certainly has not been written out of any real concern for your overall wellbeing.

These people are truly devious and you're far better off out of your family of origin's dysfunction.

Hold fast to your overall thought below:-
"All I can do is concentrate on being a great parent to my DC and making sure that they are the type of lucky people who do have parents who love and nurture them like all children deserve".

I would also suggest you get yourself removed from FB as of now or if you cannot do that further raise your own privacy settings.

Thanks for replying spl0dge

Don't worry, I am with no doubt in my mind that this is the last time that my brother will ever have any contact from me. I just want to let them know that I have no interest in them or what they have to say.

A couple of years ago I would have ignored the message as I was not strong enough to stand up to them and may well have caved in but now I am much too strong for that. My life has moved on and is great, they have no place in it.

I am also pregnant, having a wonderful pregnancy (although I'm suffering from HG) in terms of not being picked on by my mother. I've always been quite ill during my pregnancies and my mother has not missed the opportunity to step up her game when I've been at my most vulnerable.

I don't know whether they know or not that I am pregnant but I do not care. I suspect they don't know as this would be a reason for them to try and wrangle their way back in. Little do they know that they will never gain access to my life again, what ever angle they come at me from

This from Lightshouse may also assist and gives further information about hoovering behaviours:-

"The toxic hooverer doesn’t truly care about you either — they just want to keep you around to feed on emotionally, and when you decide to go no contact, they don’t plan on letting you get away that easily.

Many hooverers have traits of borderline, narcissistic, antisocial or histrionic personality disorders. People with Dependent Personality Disorder may also hoover.

Hoovering is manipulation to gain control over your choice to distance yourself, and typically takes the following forms:

•Ignoring your requests to break off the relationship and attempting to continue on as if nothing has changed.
.
•Asking you when you’re going to “get over it” and return to your past actions.
.
•Sending you a fake apology to give you hope that things have changed.
.
•Trying to trick you into contact by saying someone needs you, is sick, or in trouble.
.
•Triangulating with others, communicating things to you through them.
.
•Saying they’re worried about you, concerned about whether you’re okay, need to know where you are, etc.
.
•Sending unwanted cards, messages and gifts, sometimes gifts for your children, as they know you are likely to feel guilty about keeping a gift from your kids. Don’t allow this – exposing your children to manipulation is far worse!
.
•Returning old items you left behind.
.
•Baiting you with drama games.
.
•Contacting you about “important” things they “forgot” and suddenly have to tell you.

Attempts to pull you back into a toxic relationship are not valid expressions of caring and concern — they are attempts to regain control over your behavior. Beware — hoovering attempts are often disguised as caring, loneliness, hurt, desperation, fear, illness, and other things designed to play on your sympathies and pull you back. Abusers know that pulling on heartstrings works very well. (In the case of BPD, it may be simply out-of-control emotions and fear of abandonment more than an attempt to control you per se; however you will likely still feel that you are not being allowed to end a relationship you no longer want).

If your wish to end a relationship is not being honored, whatever a toxic person thinks will work best on you will be what they try, so when one angle doesn’t work, they will try another, and another, ramping up their efforts until it seems they might never stop. Typically, hoovering DOES stop if the person being hoovered does not fall for the hooverer’s tricks.

The sooner the person being hoovered completely ignores everything and does not respond to anything at all in any way, the sooner the toxic person finally understands that they do not have the control. Some toxic people may still make the occasional attempt on holidays, anniversaries of events, etc. Don’t bite the bait. Simply ignore any attempts.

If you have already made it clear that you do not want a relationship (or if it’s obvious) then DON’T ever contact the person doing the hoovering to tell them to stop again, or how angry you are. That is a reward. They will be thrilled to receive your attention and pleased to know that their efforts have paid off by snagging you, so they’ll be contacting you even more!

"Don't worry, I am with no doubt in my mind that this is the last time that my brother will ever have any contact from me. I just want to let them know that I have no interest in them or what they have to say".

I would not be so sure re your first sentence because toxic people always want the last word but you know him better than I do. Re your second sentence I feel that any response from you will tell them that your interest has already been piqued. They are not interested at all in your own reasonable point of view because they are at heart completely unreasonable. Its their way or no way as far as they are concerned. Do not give any of them therefore an "in".

Many congratulations to you on your pg and I hope that you are receiving ongoing medical treatment with regards to HG.

Sorry x post Attila

I will up my privacy settings on FB, it does make me chuckle to myself that my brother has obviously 'unblocked' me in order to send me that message.

I haven't done the usual 'announcement' on FB about my pregnancy that others seem to do but it is inevitable that they will find out from other family members or the fact that we live roughly in the same area and someone they know is bound to see me with bump!! It still does not change anything though, they will be told to get lost if they get in contact.

I will sleep on it before making any decisions about sending the message or not.

DH has been fantastic and is brilliant at reminding me of all the awful things these people have put me through.

I will just add that my brother really is a despicable human being - I have not doubt about that.

He is a liar, a cheat, the type of man that if your daughter brought him home and introduced him as her bf you would despair.
He has 5 children (that I know of) from 4 different women, each of whom he has taken to emotional hell and back. One of the women he made see a psychiatrist about her unreasonable and paranoid behaviour, after years of cheating on her and made out it was her being paranoid and was all in her head.
He also made himself out to be the victim of domestic violence with another woman which at the time I had believed but isn't it funny how he always makes himself out to be the helpless victim in every relationship and he was always pitied by my mother, stepfather and other family despite them being aware of all his lies and cheating and the despicable things he put those women and his children through.

Yes he was most definitely the golden child.

I am just trying to give you an insight into why I know I would never go back there and get involved in all of that shit again.

Attila thank you for the hoovering list.

mampam absolutely don't contact this DB. No good will come of it.

by all means write the reply you would like to send, shout it out and get it out of your system, but don't reward his contact with anything.

If this were a true communication from him, he'd tell you what was going on, rather than try to suck you in by tantalising you with titbits.

You know what's happened, she's now single again and rewriting history. AGAIN.

You are happy where you are in your life and need to stay there. block them and anyone and everyone that is linked to them. Put those who know them on limited profile.

You aren't strong enough to take him on. None of us are. ever. that's why we call them toxic. They're radioactive, they don't stop being dangerous just like that. it takes millions of years.

I have a number of different facebook profiles because of this.

I also have kept every single piece of everything, from posts on here, to email exchanges I happened upon on a laptop.

I have had reason to look back, recently, and have found it an illuminating experience. I have shared all these documents with my counsellor.

It has hardened my resolve to NEVER have contact with any of these lizards ever again.

Congratulations on your pregnancy, BUT, beware the tidal force of hormones and the "idea" of "family". Even if it doesn't feel like that on the surface....they are powerful pulls.

xxxx

To add....that list is bordering on funny, as I look back at their behaviour....every. single. one. of those behaviours has been demonstrated by my family of origin.

EVERY.SINGLE ONE!!!!!!!

Hello all. I've NCed for this as I've been trying to pluck up the courage to post for a long time. I feel a bit of a fraud because I really haven't had the terrible experiences some of you have had. But I'm struggling with my feelings for my parents and would appreciate a chance to blurt things out.

First off: a lot of stuff kicked off when DD was born. I had a thread at the time about my mum's terrible behaviour and how let down I felt. She tried to be helpful (I had a CS and infection as it later transpired) but ultimately caused a huge row. She is selfish and childish, especially when she is tired or stressed. She was out of order and I fully expected her to apologise. Instead she bombarded us with texts and emails, including emailing my DH trying to turn him against me. I had a thread at the time and I know Attila posted on it. I agreed with her assessment that my dad let me down too by enabling my mum instead of telling her to catch a grip.

I was very angry but in the name of peace and harmony we all had a tacit agreement to pretend it never happened. Everything seemed fine. Only just before DD's first birthday, it all started coming back to me and the anger reignited. Since then (a fairly long time now but under a year) I have been keeping more and more of a distance. I feel a sort of disgust at their behaviour. It's confusing me because I want to love them the way I did before but there's something in the way. There is no point talking about it with them - they would say I was mad to be thinking about this and continue rewriting history to say I was the one who caused all the problems. They have a habit of denying anything bad and neither are good at apologising.

I should say that my mum had a difficult upbringing in many ways but both she and my grandmother could be very manipulative. I was very much the golden child but I think the row after DD's birth was a catalyst for me moving away from this. I've seen people talk about FOG and I think I have a lot of that. For example I am helping my parents financially at the minute, even though I am barely seeing them. I don't want to see them. But I WANT to want to see them if that makes sense. I have felt emotionally numb for a while now and have wondered for some time if I'm depressed.

I've probably said enough for now so thank you for reading. My real fear is seeing some of her traits in me. I don't want to be that person.

mampam nice to see you again, i realised after posting on the preg thread that you'd posted on the HG one! how is it all going now? has the nausea abated a bit?

I found that the family situation is always more in the front of my mind when preg. Big style. The sadness and sometimes anger seems to be unveiled and raw, whereas usually it's actually pretty well manageable. Never quite heals fully, but it's okay. But when preg, all the healed scars seem to be much more tender and you're way more reactive. Is it the same for you?

Until you posted about your older brother's habits, I'd have said the letter sounded pretty reasonable and it was worth a cautious shot. Having seen your fourth post, No. Someone with that record of deceit and ruthlessness is not going to change lightly at all, and his letter to you is not written in a way that looks likely that he's changed at all. It really does look like a carrot, and I'd be asking what is he, himself, going to get out of the contact with you? Because somehow in context of his character, it has the scent of a contact made for his own gain.

I'm so sorry about your father. You think that he will fall for your mother's bullshit line again? It does sound wisest to keep your heart carefully guarded :(

scales never worry about 'not having had overtly terrible experiences'. Some of the subtlest stuff is the most damaging and horrible. And it's not a competition. If you think you'd gain comfort / help from posting here, then post!

You want to want to see them. Well, actually, if someone behaves very unpleasantly towards us, actually it's normal not to want to see them. You can't make yourself willing walk into a pit of rattlesnakes. No one can.

Why do you want to want to see them? Duty? Feeling like you're a bad person if you don't? or becuase it's (seen as) the normal thing to want to be with your mother? Or because you long for a good, loving mother? the reason could be helpful to figure out.

Not being able to make yourself want to see them actually sounds like a healthy thing to me. You have enough solidity to know at a deep level that you shoudl be treated with respect.

I think a lot of us know the feeling of not wanting to be like our mothers. I certainly do. Self-reflection is a good first step, and you're already there. What do your partner and a couple of close trusted friends say, if they know her? Good honest feedback from trusted people is extremely helpful in keeping a check on oneself. The fear of having similar traits to your mother can actually stop you objectively seeing if you do or not.

Sometimes a short session of skilled counselling can help. skilled counselling can help untease the layers of grottiness and leave you with a much clearer understanding and somehow cleaner. It's not for everyone, but I suspect it may be revealing for you.

The desire to never be anything like the evil creature that is my mother is what drives me through the pain of this process.

When I started posting here, all those years ago, I had no idea of the extent to which I had normalised and internalised her abuse.

Finding the RIGHT therapist for YOU can make all the difference.

Thank you Meerka and Spl0dge. I feel guilty even writing all this because I know my mum loved me, especially when I was a child. I had a very happy childhood. It was only in my early teens that things started to go wrong. My parents were controlling and critical but they did love us. They were not emotionally available though. I couldn't talk to them about my fears or emotions. I developed binge eating habits that have stayed with me into adulthood. I remember my loneliness as a teenager, even though I had close friends and I would stuff myself with food when I got home from school. The loneliness was when I was at home and the food helped keep it at bay. It's ironic that my parents are very critical of my weight, not realising my eating habits developed at that stage.

My sibling was the naughty one - the rebel and scapegoat. Which cast me in the unwilling role of good girl. And I both wanted to be the good girl (to avoid inflicting more pain on my parents who couldn't understand why my sibling was so wild) and loathed her so I sabotaged myself but always managed to do well in spite of it.

Have any of you developed issues with food because of your upbringing? And has anything helped you deal with these issues?

I'm finding it upsetting even writing these posts.

meerka that's an encouraging point about feeling distant as a protective thing. It just doesn't seem healthy for the longterm. I know my mum must be baffled by my distance but there's no way of having any kind of mature discussion with her. I tried some years ago to talk about my teen years with her but she brushed it away. She had no idea how to deal with it. If there is one way in which I am different from her it is that I see my flaws very clearly and I try hard to be honest about them.

Splodge I'm sorry that your mother was an 'evil creature'. I can't imagine what it would be like to live with a parent who was actively abusive. I admire any and all of you who are facing up to your pasts. It's painful.

Shizlack. Your mother sounds a lot like mine. Horrible bullying woman.
I feel for you. And I know exactly what you mean when you say you don't know what to say at the time when the insults and attacks start on you.

Bit of an update on my situation. DH and I were discussing how I felt about my family. I went through a list of feelings that have increased over the years. A few examples would be not feeling loved, wanted, feeling like I was never good enough to be part of the family and many more. Every time I go to my parent's house, I get through the door and the atmosphere is such that I feel like they can't wait to get rid of me so I don't stay long.

DH said he'd noticed that when my siblings call round mum springs out of her seat and offers them a cuppa, but when we call round, she doesn't even ask us. I know they are little things and TBH, I don't feel they are a patch on what some of you good ladies have been put through. Not heard from any of them since last Saturday when DS and DD was invited to my youngest brother's DSC's birthday party. My younger brother was there and totally blanked me. Not a "Hello Chiggers" nor even "kiss my arse".

We've discussed not telling them that we're moving. It'll not be taken well, but DH says he's sick of me being treated like shite by them and that if they were interested in catching up with events in our lives, they'd have called by now, besides, why should we do all the contacting.

Anyway, will have to go as I've a few things to do before I take the dogs for a walk, but take care ladies and I'll pop back tomorrow to keep up with the thread.

"DH said he'd noticed that when my siblings call round mum springs out of her seat and offers them a cuppa, but when we call round, she doesn't even ask us. I know they are little things and TBH, I don't feel they are a patch on what some of you good ladies have been put through"

Oh Chiggers. These are not little things at all and your experience of your crap family of origin is just as valid as anyone else's on this thread. Many people do downplay their own experiences but you have every right to feel failed by your dysfunctional birth family.NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

Keep writing here.

I would also encourage you and your own family unit now to go completely off grid i.e. no contact with your birth family. They do not deserve any of you in their lives. You do not need their approval and you are not their whipping boy.

No, i dont think it's little either. If it was a one off then sure, it's nothing. As part of a pattern it's horrible and deeply undermining and hurtful.

Morning! Sorry I haven't slept but just scrolled past a post about eating issues blamed on your mother? Can't remember who it was sorry! I have very strange eating patterns. When I lived at home food was always served on the dot of whatever o'clock. Never earlier or later and always a pudding - my mum really can't cook well and her pastry is urgh, she thought I was a bad wife/mother/girlfriend/host for not having a cooked meal ready at 5, because shock/horror we sometimes eat at 5:30 or 6 or yknow! So I rarely eat puddings, she was yo-yo dieting all my life so my earliest memories of her are of the F plan diet and weight watchers clubs. Even now Edam cheese makes me bauk! So I just stop eating, literally. I can go days without food with no problem. So yeah, I do have a disorder. But whatever size I am she'll say 'oh I used to be a size 8/10/12 whatever size is under mine at the time. Then she'll try and thrust her bikini photo (1960) onto whoever I was seeing. She was never that small. I had a nose job at 20 - I had her nose but didn't realise that's why I wanted one. I also never wear navy blue, ever. She always does.

Funny thing last weekend though, we (me n him) were watching an old hammer movie and were laughing at the pointy bras. I told them they were Triumph Doreen's, he went on for ages about the pointy shape and how I should get one as it'd look punky with my latest tshirt. I refused point blank ONlY because I remember the shape of my mums bras! Is that weird?!

I'm finding this all very therapeutic! In having a shit time in my new job, have had about 5 hours sleep in two days and was dreading her call (probably tonight feeling all sorry for herself) but I'll be ok!

oh I hope the job improves! and feel for you on sleep, have insomnia and an 11 week old, interesting combination. Adorable little mite tho.

with your mother, if you can, it might help to disengage emotionally. think of her as a stranger who's rung and who you don't wnat to put the phone down to, and make neutral noises.

The jealousy thing is bizarre, isn't it? I really hope I am never like that with DD - that I can just celebrate her accomplishments, her beauty, her talents. Not try and compete with her.

Aging is strange. There seems to be a certain mindset - being grateful for the time you've had, rather than being jealous of the young - that maybe protects you from seeing your own children as rivals. In some ways my parents were proud of my success but recently they seem to have turned on me. It's just a vibe, mainly coming from my mum and where she leads dad follows.

The food thing annoys me more than anything else. Head you seem to recognise it without it bothering you. In my case I am getting fatter and I want to stop it now.

How much of a role do hormones play in causing difficulty do you think? I know that my mum seemed to be struggling with the menopause when I was having DD. I'm not talking about with truly toxic parents here.