Not had sex for almost two years

[Olliedelondon]

I very much love my DW. Before we had our two children, we had a reasonable sex life, although I would always initiate. But since our children we have had very little sex (once every four months maybe) and nothing at all for now almost two years. My DW says that I am unreasonable in my 'needs' and that I should focus all my attentions on looking after the children. But I think it's destroying our marriage and I'm not prepared to sacrifice a sex life and frankly don't see why I should. I also don't think she fancies me. At all. Am I unreasonable? What should I do? I have 'got by' by using pornography in secret. I have also started fantasising about attractive colleagues, although I have never had an affair. The sexual frustration I feel is almost painful...Help?

You are making yourself look silly now with your assumptions and attributing other people's opinions to me. I' not simplesusan.

I am not trying to change your opinion. I'm expressing my opinion and you keep telling me I am not allowed to have it. If you'd read virtually anything I'd written about porn and relationships on here you'd know how wrong you were in your weird prejudiced assumptions.

Women shouldn't have to earn money in the sex industry and I care very much more about that than about it provoking insecurity in any woman with a porn watching partner. I wouldn't feel insecure if I discovered bf was a porn watcher and had lied I'd think he was inadequate for lying and I'd just move on.

I also care about the effect it has on expectations of sex but mostly I care about the exploitation of women (largely but also men) by all aspects of the sex industry.

Your argument about removing income is rather simplistic and idiotic IMO. Protecting women from exploitation by the sex industry does not inherently require that their income is removed I also have other morals which would require people don't have to choose sex work or starvation or sex work or a lifetime of drudging poverty and I don't accept that the sex industry is necessary in order for women to earn an income.

I've never sneered at you for working in the sex industry, if I had you might be justified but in fact I am perfectly entitled to have a different view of the sex industry to you. Why is me expressing my view trying to change your mind? I have had to express my actual view because you keep applying your prejudice and assumptions to me and saying all kinds of crazy things you have decided I'm thinking or saying or am, decided all about my relationships and my life... It's weird, I've only ever had an argument like it with my little bro!

You're entitled to have a view about motherhood but please have some self awareness and recognise that the sneering is not on.

Been an entertaining way to channel my grump anyway...

Hope you feel better soon Offred.

Thanks! Think I'll be better tomorrow, or hope I will! Cough seems to be improving and no longer have pain in my chest so winner!

Glad to hear it Offred

Ha ha! Just had one, possibly making me feel overconfident!

OlliedeLondon - No sex for 2 years is seen as unreasonable behaviour in court and grounds for divorce.

My argument about income is not simplistic and idiotic, it was the main reason it took me much longer to exit sex work than I would have liked, and I do believe this affected me negatively as I had to keep doing it for the income when I had well gone off the job by then and wasn't enjoying it in the slightest. I'm lucky I have financially supportive parents who have helped me change my life. I would not have been able to do it without their moral and financial support, many women do not have that.

Whos going to provide this money for ex sex workers so they don't have to work? The taxpayer? Benefits? The reason women enter it is because benefits are utter shite and don't pay enough to have any standard of living whatsoever.

Yes women shouldnt have to earn money in the sex industry but the fact is they DO due to lots of issues and your view that they could all be provided with everything they need paid for by some ethical fairy godmother is so simplistic its ridiculous.

And yes a lot of women care not about the women actually in the sex industry and only about how it may affect them ie their DH watching it or visiting escorts, apparently it can make men 'act differently to their partners' and this other statement you made yourself that it affects mens views of real sex and womens bodies etc thus also affects the wife and girlfriend. It is all concern for themselves and not for the women actually affected, If you say that isnt what bothers you then I will have to believe you, I have found it to be true of most women against the sex industry though. Narcissistic self absorption and insecurities masked up as feminism, concern for women and anti sexism.

I will add, in this economic climate whos going to provide subsequent jobs for over 100,000 ex sex workers that would now be without work?

So ridiculous and simplistic its unbelievable, if your volunteering to fund this yourself go ahead! Maybe set up a charity hoping to do so, I would wholeheartedly support it.

Night!

Wildbill, some people on here do not believe its ever unreasonable to not have sex with their partner. They would completely agree its ok to tell a spouse 'never again' and that person has to put up with it or they are a twat.

22honey, what a damaging post at 23.07. Talk about not seeing the wood for the trees.

22 honey - yep it never ceases to amaze me - they post here that they've been married for 'x' years, haven't had sex for 'y' years and then are shocked when hubbie has an affair, it's utterly bizarre.......

No-one on this thread thought it was reasonable for any person in a relationship to go without sex and intimacy that they wanted for years. I know it suits you to misrepresent what people say...

For clarity, the point is that no sex is a problem, if you can't successfully communicate about it then you should push for counselling, if your partner is resolutely unwilling to go to counselling you should split up.

Conceptually, yes it is fine to not want sex. Consent is quite important. No-one has a right to sex, not even if they are married saying people don't have the right to say no is always on dodgy ground no matter how reasonable you think you are being.

In a relationship where there is an agreement to be monogamous you aren't entitled to have affairs out of spite, you are entitled to leave. If you choose to have an affair rather than take responsibility you will have to take the consequences of that behaviour as you would if your solution was to rape your partner.

That applies whether you are male or female because it isn't just women who sometimes don't want sex. In fact the crap from bill about hubbies shows he hasn't read that many women on this thread were coming from the other side.

22 - the point is idiotic because it has no bearing on someone's morality, it is a practical point about problems with how you might implement a system which promotes that morality.

I'm ethically opposed to many things in this society, I have never disagreed that abolishing the sex industry would be ineffective in this system. I would like a different system - that's my point. You just seem very eager to tell me what I think again.

I'm not sure why you are so keen on jumping ahead all the time and telling me what I think before I've had a chance to say it. The usual procedure in any kind of debate is you make an argument then you listen to what the other person says. So weird that you seem to make your argument immaterial of what I've said/think based on what suits your prejudiced agenda.

And it's weird that I find myself having to defend points I've never made and no, you don't have to believe me. I really don't care either way whether you do or you don't believe me or agree with me, i do care when you misrepresent things I have said or just pull random prejudices out of your arse and apply them to me without actually bothering to have asked.

There are several things you could do to avoid that including asking me what I think before judging me and advance searching my name and reading what I've said on other threads.

For clarity, the point is that no sex is a problem, if you can't successfully communicate about it then you should push for counselling, if your partner is resolutely unwilling to go to counselling you should split up.

That is this thread in a nutshell. The rest is waffle or at the least the subject of a separate thread. That is all Ollie really needs to know, we can't really do any more for him unless he wants support with any of those stages but the way this has gone, he has probably run for the hills.

OP i wish you luck.

Mumsnet man hating double standards come to the fore again.

OP is a man, he was always going to be to blame somehow. There was a similar post to this not to long ago except with the gender roles reversed. In that discussion the man was considered useless for not providing sex.

This is why these threads get derailed longtime. There's not been manhating on the thread no-one's managed to actually link to a thread where there was evidence of a double standard even one time in all the many times that accusation has been levelled on all the different threads we've seen and we've been through this point many many times on this thread anyway. Some male posters have been around to say they had help with their problem and they agreed it was the attitude that was the difference.

The problem IMO is some posters are so paranoid about manhating that they go too far and are unable to criticise dubious stuff male posters say. When women get flamed on MN no-one says MN is woman hating they just can see that the posts are responding to something dubious the op has said. In this case loads of people admitted the op came on with a dubious attitude towards his problem which is not crime of the century but it was made into a rather bigger deal than necessary because of all the 'it's because he is a man' stuff and all the deciding 'oh these are the manhaters I know what they say' misreading and misrepeating of posts that has gone on.

If you read the thread virtually everybody agrees and has the same advice for the op. The actual differences of opinion have come from the prejudices of the people who leap to the conclusion that anyone criticising a man is manhating and the ensuing defence and gender politics discussions IMO.

But yes I'm aware I've been massively responsible for the derailing but like I said before I'm not convinced the op wasn't a wind up and like big said the advice is really really simple and everyone agrees about it so not much else to offer the op perhaps.

Offred - sometimes the best action on a thread is to simply stop posting.................

Depends what you want out of it bill. 'Best' is a fairly subjective thing. For example a MRA might feel It is best for stereotypes that promote male supremacy go unchallenged and a feminist might think it is best that they are challenged. I quite fancied the distraction from my cold and wasn't in the mood to tolerate or let some of the stuff being said go uncountered so meh...

Zip it Offred or we'll send you to naughty corner....................

(only joshing)

I quite like the naughty corner

I think the differences in the way that men and women are treated are much more subtle than you are making out Offred and that is why you haven't got the links you asked for. I know I have seen comments rather than whole posts that have made me go but I have neither the time nor the inclination to find them and post. Also, the differences in treatment can be so engrained that they can go largely unnoticed.

Plus it all started getting a bit shrieky and personal for my taste do I have largely withdrawn. I'm not pointing the finger at any one individual but at the tone.

There are always individual posts that make people but when people post that on another thread xyz happened I would expect a link. Silverlight deliberately tried posting something extremely misleading.

I don't deny gender politics affect things like discussions on mumsnet but they also affect roles and expectations in a way which means a direct comparison can't be drawn. I don't know what the problem is just saying 'I disagree and think you're getting a hard time' like you would on a thread posted by a woman or substantiating an accusation of double standards because that really is what started all of the derailment.

Hi Ollie, I think your wife is being very dismissive of your concerns and you have my sympathies. I was once in your position and I agree entirely with the many posters who have observed that without greater honest communication your marriage will most likely be a lonely place for both of you.

But equally given your investment in this thread and examining your own part in the intimacy issue I think I can tell you wouldn't forgive yourself if you give up on each other too soon.

By the way, there is a great point made over on the dating thread which is to judge love look at the actions and not the sayings. Nearly 2 years without intimacy is a powerful message it could be anything from I am overloaded (is your wife breast feeding?), I am angry with you, I need this control, I don't fancy you, men aren't my thing etc etc it is almost certainly it's you are not my priority but given the age of the kids that may be understandable if a little conservative

You are not at fault for not knowing but equally you are probably not well served by playing detective with your wife

And I'd also suggest you keep an open mind because if she is struggling with her sexuality painful as it is I think you need to be there for her and the kids and its not a fault thing

Counselling is your best bet so If I were you I would choose a time when you are relaxed - after exercise or a bath perhaps and just say we don't need to discuss this now but I just need to let you know that I feel like your always pushing me away, I am feeling unattractive and unloveable and I worry I that you feel the same. I'd really like us to go to couple counselling

Good luck