Not had sex for almost two years

[Olliedelondon]

I very much love my DW. Before we had our two children, we had a reasonable sex life, although I would always initiate. But since our children we have had very little sex (once every four months maybe) and nothing at all for now almost two years. My DW says that I am unreasonable in my 'needs' and that I should focus all my attentions on looking after the children. But I think it's destroying our marriage and I'm not prepared to sacrifice a sex life and frankly don't see why I should. I also don't think she fancies me. At all. Am I unreasonable? What should I do? I have 'got by' by using pornography in secret. I have also started fantasising about attractive colleagues, although I have never had an affair. The sexual frustration I feel is almost painful...Help?

I think the indifference point, sadly, could be right. All her family are in New Zealand and she once said if we broke up she would go back there ("what choice would I have?"). I think she realises the difficulties involved with that (and, anyway, legally she knows I could stop her, or at least stop her taking the DCs) and thinks better the status quo you know than the status quo you don't.

She's not that religious.

Agree about the honesty, but she full well knows how I feel and won't tell me her feelings save for what I have posted.

I was always affectionate, but when someone virtually shudders when you give them a peck on the cheek/recoils when hugged, it sort of deters from doing so again...

I personally agree with an earlier post that the difference between a couple and room mates is intimacy and I just think the lack of intimacy is becoming overwhelming. For goodness sake, I have no more intimacy with my DW than I do with my colleagues!

Thanks again.

FGS, men as a whole do not 'have it easier' than women as a whole. For a start, a working class man does not have it easier than a middle/upper class woman. Alot of it is social class, not gender.

I'd consider myself better off than quite a few blokes I know, and worse off than quite a few women I know.

Sorry, to clarify, she can be affectionate in other ways, provided they are non-touching/intimate. She likes watching certain television shows with me; likes going for a walk with the children and I; talking. I do thinks she sort of likes me- a sort of best friend without benefits. Just makes me wonder why she doesn't live with one of her platonic friends...

dark. i never said its always the womans fault, just that in my experience women choose/want to have children (doesnt mean men dont either, but fgs not every man does nothing at all with his kids!) and then develop a woe is me attitude when they realise how hard it is.

maisie you talk utter crap, he hasnt 'betrayed her and her love' at all. Some posters on this thread need to get a bloody grip, relationships and men arnt like they are portrayed in Disney movies FGS.

I think the indifference point, sadly, could be right. All her family are in New Zealand and she once said if we broke up she would go back there ("what choice would I have?"). I think she realises the difficulties involved with that (and, anyway, legally she knows I could stop her, or at least stop her taking the DCs) and thinks better the status quo you know than the status quo you don't.

What ? When did she tell you this ? And did you guys said this stupidly or was it within a serious discussion ? So basically you have indeed talked about breaking up and divorcing ? When did this happen ? This does not sound good.

To be honest, a loving couple never say "break", they just get mad, and then maybe get even, or readjust but never say break.

Agree about the honesty, but she full well knows how I feel and won't tell me her feelings save for what I have posted.

What matter if you know how she feels ?

I agree on the indifference, or at first I thought it is avoidance, but you already mentioned above that she has mentioned and talked to you about breaking up, and then you are also blatantly talking about stopping her taking the children abroad. What the heck. THAT is NOT love.

Are you really sure that you love your wife and that you actually fancy fancy her ? Or are you just being resentful at this moment in time ? Do you love her or do you lust her ? If you love her, then go back to the beginning and start all over again, and date one another again and build it up from ground up. If you lust for her, then I think you should divorce now.

Offred, stop mentioning my age. Its neither here nor there when it comes to experience on any particular subject. I never denied sexism (ive seen it come from your mouth on this thread), just find it ridiculous you blame a crap sex life on sexism. Its just, mindblowing. That doesn't mean I am denying the existence of sexism. Sigh yet another word twister, put-words-in-my-mouth.

Maisie, what if his wife doesnt love him? Why is it he who needs to make all the effort? His DW is not interested, she is apathetic to the situation because she has her home, DC and lifestyle and things are not that bad for her.

hooked I really wouldnt look on Mumsnet if I 'wished to learn about other women's sex lives' (which I don't, to be honest). I also do not go looking in magazines so I can find out about other women's sex lives, LOL. I really cannot believe some posters on here. I couldn't care less if my experience is the 'norm' or not, was merely asking Offsted what she meant that its impossible to orgasm from VP as I had experienced it lots of times.

I will say it again, I have no interest in learning about other women's sex lives and comparing myself to them, I merely know about my own and whether I find it satisfying or not. What other women do is here nor there to me, my point was I HAD read in certain places (not necessarily just magazines! that was an example) that many women have never orgasmed or masturbated, and from convos with friends and acquaintances etc I could quite well believe that. I imagine that every man in the world hasn't masturbated either, for a start its against a lot of people's religious beliefs.

And the point following on from that was that if its true many women never masturbated or orgasmed, that the OP's wife could just be one of these people (for crying out loud, some people are not interested in orgasms, sex or masturbating, and theres nothing wrong with that). IE- Not a sexual being - that doesn't mean they are a leper! Lots of men arn't 'sexual beings' either.

Its shocking the posters insulting and dragging up this man's sexual techniques in order to blame him for the fact his DW isnt interested because hes just so shit in bed (tbh it sounds like she just couldn't give a shit and life is fine as it is, she is apathetic to sex and intimacy)- can you imagine a woman being told the same thing 'Oh well you could do to lose a bit of weight and learn to give a better blow job and then he might be interested in going anywhere near you!' - Don't think so! Disgusting!

And you lot say you ain't sexist....ha.

22honey Thanks for your nice words. If you think I talk utter crap, then do not read it. The OP asked for advice, and I am giving it to him. If he wants to divorce, then surely he will be adult enough to say "how do I divorce", no ?

To answer his original post. No, he is not in the wrong to desire love making within a marriage. He is not wrong to want this at all. But, how to achieve this? He has to be absolutely honest with his wife. About his desire, and the he has had to use pornography and he does not want to do so. This lack of intimacy is affecting him personally, and can they start from the beginning again and start all over again and build up a proper affection relationship from zero. Talk honestly, and openly, and heart to heart about any concerns which had gone on in the past, and address those issues, and build up the trust again. It takes patience from both side to do this, and he does need her motivation and desire to do the same as well and support him as well when things get tough. He has to open his heart and be vulnerable.

I know it's not looking good but I still think its early days if the baby is only 9 months old. I think there could still be a chance that things could turn around.
It's such a shame that the OPs wife won't talk about it. It's very unfair of her. What about trying to write her a letter. You do love her and it sounds as though you still, sort of, enjoy some aspects of your relationship - surely there is done hope? I wonder if she really understands the OPs feelings.

If a divorce would end up with the OP returning to New Zealand with the kids then it makes a divorce a very, very difficult decision. I would want to know the legal situation before risking having my kids living on the other side of the world.

Maisie, its a public thread and I can read it if I want, and conclude the poster is talking shite if thats what I think. Your advice was a long winded post about how he has betrayed his wife and her trust which is a load of rubbish and basically stating HE is doing something wrong when that doesnt appear to be the case. His wife has never been that interested in sex, it took them two weeks to consumate their marriage FGS.

Not every woman is just dying for sex and orgasms but not getting it because every man is shit in bed and doesn't know what hes doing. Yet thats the impression you'd get from certain posters on here! His DW has told him she has a low sex drive, its obvious from everything hes said she just doesn't want to have sex and is happy with the status quo!

To me, if the OP had been thinking about divorce already and he has not been honest with his wife as well about even pondering this idea, then doesn't this also break the trust that two people have with one another ? Someone mentioned that there had been no betrayal. Isn't this kind of emotional or mental idea is a sign of betrayal ? Cos you do not even know what your partner is thinking or doing. How can you trust them ? This is crazy.

The OP really have to truly ask himself what he wants from the relationship and if he can get what he needs, and how. He has to learn about his partner and what her capabilities are, and how her personality is and come to a workable relationship. Normally, this is why most people string out the dating years to really iron out this kind of thing, and not jump into a marriage asap from a rebound viewpoint. Cos that is crazy.

" Can you imagine a woman being told the same thing"

Well yes actually Check out the bottom paragraph of aclearblueskys post on this thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/dadsnet/1849618-Blokes-I-need-your-viewpoint-on-sex-affection-and-overall-male-mindset

22honey When you see beyond what is literally written and have thought about what it means to be in a marriage, then please do post something useful and constructive, thanks.

I also dislike you dramatising that life is not a Disney movie. We are not dumb Honey. When you are older,and realised the perception from all angle in this situation, then please do come back and post something constructive. Thanks. I am sure the OP is adult enough to make decisions for himself. The advice is there for the taking. That's it.

When you have also googled online about articles on sexual peaks for the different ages, then come back online and then tell me your findings. Maybe that will be constructive too. When you've read some DK books on foreplay, then come back online and tell me your findings.

I haven't read the whole thread, but is the OP still with us?
If you can't communicate with your wife (because she won't, as you stated in your OP), then you will never have good sex together again. So what are you going to do, OP?
I've been there. I once told DH that I would be happy if I never had sex again.
Thankfully, for us, we have had a happily ever after. So far. We always communicated though, so much so, that he confided that he had thought that this was what he was going to accept because he was in it with me for life, but that he might have considered some discreet sex somewhere else down the line. It didn't hurt to hear that, but I am very secure in my very LTR, so go figure. He never pestered me, and wouldn't be able to have sex with me if I was ever anything less than enthusiastic. Good luck to you.

22 honey why don't you go and tell women who have experienced the trauma of FGM that its down to social class not gender Im sure that news will be very comforting to them

Up until 1991 it was also perfectly legal for a man to rape his wife (I do mean legal in all homes not just the working class ones)

Ollie, the situation whereby your DW could move to the other side of the world with your kids if you split sounds terrifying, deepest sympathy. I really hope you can both get through this. Please consider talking to a counsellor for yourself, even if your wife will not engage with you. It sounds like you really need someone to talk to about this in real life. I know time is at a premium with the business, but this sounds like something you need to make time for.

www.nct.org.uk/pregnancy/dad%E2%80%99s-view-sex-during-pregnancy

A letter is probably is a good idea - you can plan what you want to say, cross out the crass bits and rewrite and take your time to say how you feel. Don't turn it into a list of failing and point scoring. The only danger of a letter is that she ignores it and doesn't acknowledge anything you have said but if she isn't listening when you talk, perhaps she will at least take on board some of it if you write. You have to try as many different avenues as you can.

The possibility that she might go back to New Zealand makes this all a bit more desperate, doesn't it?

If your wife won't go with you, perhaps you could consider going to counselling alone? She might eventually join you but if not at least you might find a way of getting through to her with a counsellors help and at the very least, be able to find a way through this with as much kindness and as little pain as possible.

Maisie you keep saying he should share his dreams and open his heart (haven't read Mills & Boon for 30+ yrs but it all comes flooding back with that one) but he is trying that and not getting anywhere. He is being met with a wall of indifference. He needs a different tack.

You've forgotten to explain how he has betrayed his wife by the way or is it that you just prefer a bit of melodrama?

Cross post with Hooked about counselling.

I get the feeling there is a lot more to say but it is difficult when people are picking apart everything you say word by word instead of looking at the bigger picture. A counsellor can help you talk through the things you can't say on here.

bigboobiedbertha Originally when I wrote that his wife must be resentful towards him must be due to a betrayal somewhere. He already mentioned that she dislike him going out to bars and drinking with clients, and coming home drunk. The betrayal comes from expectation of married life. Does his wife expected this when she married him, and does this not impact his marriage in any way ? To me, a person who loved can only continue to love you if you keep on investing in the love and reassurances, and build continually on the marriage. To me, his wife turning her back on him must mean a betrayal somewhere. Yes, I am speculating here.

This was before I read the comment which he posted about the fact that they have mentioned breaking up already. Which is very strong and extreme words in my eyes. To me as a bystander, I think this is a crazy situation between two people. As it comes across and I read it as a threat. If two people feel so strongly already, then why are they asking for advice now ? I originally assumed that nothing major as threats had been thrown out already, but from what he wrote, it seemed that this had happened already. Two people being in the hate zone is not a good thing in my eyes.

'22 honey why don't you go and tell women who have experienced the trauma of FGM that its down to social class not gender Im sure that news will be very comforting to them hmm

Up until 1991 it was also perfectly legal for a man to rape his wife (I do mean legal in all homes not just the working class ones)'

FGM is not only down to gender, its also down to culture and other factors.

Your missing the point, I never said that sexism doesn't exist or that women arn't affected by certain things that men arn't. I said that men as a whole are not better off than women as a whole, lots of individual factors come into that.

Would you say a middle class woman living a cosseted happy existence in middle england is suffering more than a man in afghanistan who has had his whole home and family blown to bits, just because shes a woman?

You could also argue men were made to offer themselves to be blown to bits in wars back in the day but women wernt. Its obvious certain issues affect one gender more than the other, it doesnt negate the fact just because someones a woman they must default be worse off than all men on the planet.