Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - thread 29

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

That's true Bluebell and I'm finding that if I keep my "business hat" on, so to speak, then it's easier to detach as well. Hence the venting a bit on here, as there's really nobody in RL I can discuss it with, as my friends and I have our dcs at home right now due to school holidays and we can't really discuss it in front of them over coffee. I will be so glad when my counselling starts back up in September!

I'm hoping he'll focus on himself for a few weeks initially, and not ask to see the dcs. If he's not doing well, it'll only upset the dcs, and realistically, he needs to focus on improving his immediate mental health concerns first.

Gaaaahhh!!! Bloody hell. Text from KD. 'After your refusal to let me see kids on friday, I want to see them tomorrow. Yes I know you have the farm thing but cancel it. I won't be kept from them anymore. If you refuse, you're preventing me from seeing them and I will take this further.'

I didn't refuse to let him see kids on friday, they weren't in!! And his contact day was saturday, anyway. I haven't responded yet, I'm not sure how.

Ignore. And if he shows up at your house, tell him to leave and ring the police. If he harasses you, ring the police.

Do NOT cancel the farm thing. Even if he decides to try to take it further....
1- he'll never win once you show the judge his previous messages and outline his history
2- it'll take him awhile to file it and for it to go to court
3- he'll need either money, a solicitor or possibly both to take it further. And any decent solicitor will tell him he's nuts to try.

He had an agreed on contact day, he blew it off, and that's HIS problem. IGNORE!!!!!

Also, if he has any idea what time you're leaving for your trip tomorrow, make sure you get someone to come over and stand by while you're loading the car, getting dcs into the car, in case he shows up to harass you.

And do NOT allow him to come over prior to you leaving (I know you - you're considering it just to appease him, aren't you!?!), because he will kick off and delay and ruin your day entirely just because he can. Or he will do the "wait, i'm running late, wait I'm running late" thing and then never show up - again, just to mess with you.

Don't let him!!

alice Yes, you're right, I was juggling times in my head wondering if we could set off at lunchtime instead of the 7am start I had in mind. But it's a really long trip and I know if I wait til lunch he'll fart about and make it later and later and next thing I'll still be travelling at rush hour wkth grisly toddlers. No. I won't do that, my DC have been bouncing with excitement today. I'll be up at 6 and out the door for 7 as planned. My dad's usually up and about then..wonder if he fancies popping over to help with our luggage..

I'll switch my phone off until we're safely on our way. Let him take me to court, the stuff I have on him he won't have a leg to stand on, that's if they don't laugh him out of court first. I have every nasty, manipulative, devious text he ever sent me. I'm not letting him wreck the one decent week of fun and freedom we'll have had in a very, very long time.

alice Yes, you're right, I was juggling times in my head wondering if we could set off at lunchtime instead of the 7am start I had in mind. But it's a really long trip and I know if I wait til lunch he'll fart about and make it later and later and next thing I'll still be travelling at rush hour wkth grisly toddlers. No. I won't do that, my DC have been bouncing with excitement today. I'll be up at 6 and out the door for 7 as planned. My dad's usually up and about then..wonder if he fancies popping over to help with our luggage..

I'll switch my phone off until we're safely on our way. Let him take me to court, the stuff I have on him he won't have a leg to stand on, that's if they don't laugh him out of court first. I have every nasty, manipulative, devious text he ever sent me. I'm not letting him wreck the one decent week of fun and freedom we'll have had in a very, very long time.

Okay. Do NOT tell him when you're leaving, not even that you're leaving in the morning. Ask you dad to stop over and be there as you suspect he might show up and cause problems. You also might want to ask him to drive by your house (if he drives) here and there during the week, just in case your ex gets really shitty and breaks a window or something to get back at you. Just in case he does, make sure anything really important (copies of his messages, your laptop, important paperwork) should be somewhere he can't find it or access it if he gets into the house.

And don't you DARE let him talk you around!!

sorry, too many "he"s in there.. ask your DAD to stop over in case your EX shows up. Ask your DAD to check your house here and there while you're gone in case your EX breaks in or breaks a window or something.

alice Don't worry, there's no way I'm letting him talk me round. This is our break and I refuse to let him spoil it. Ok. So he's called twice because I haven't responded to his text. I can't switch my phone off yet because I'm texting my brother who is travelling down in tandem with his gf and her DC. I've forwarded him KD's text, which he says is laughable, and he's suggested he and his gf plus DC come over now and stay the night so we can set off all together in the morning. Good idea about getting my dad to do a drive past over the week, thanks . Laptop and essential documents are going with me just to be safe.

Who'd have thought a week on a farm would need this kind of military planning. Thanks, alice, seems I just figured it'd be straightforward, you've just opened my eyes to some things I clearly overlooked. Cheers for the stern words on not letting him talk me round, I needed that, I was wavering on that front.

Oh that's a brilliant - your brother and his gf and dc coming over tonight and staying over is a wonderful plan. Safety in numbers, eh? And I would imagine KD would think twice before he tries something with them there.

It's because we're conditioned to change our plans to suit them. I knew you'd be considering it, as I would have initially considered it too.

You're going to have a wonderful week - looking forward to seeing your post when you get back after a great stress-free week with your family and dcs.

Right. Brother and gf here, her 2 DC happily ensconsed in front of the tv for now while we sort out sleeping arrangements. If it hadn't been for my brother lending me the deposit for this place, DC and I wouldn't have 'escaped' as swiftly as we did. He's one of life's good eggs, proof that nice guys do exist! And there's certainly no love lost between KD and him.

Well this is an interesting start to our holidays, it's going to be a squash tonight but we'll manage KD has called me again. I'm debating firing off one text to say my plans will not be changing. You're right though, we really are still conditioned to change our plans for them, aren't we. Bloody hell!

I hope your week is quiet alice and I'll be thinking of you all. Probably won't get chance to post this week but I'll be back in a week with (hopefully) a cheery update of our week on the farm!

Cheerio for now

Don't answer him. It's like pouring fuel on a fire. Ignore. In fact, turn your phone off, then you're not tempted to answer him.

Have a lovely trip!!!

Yay! Well done Curt for all that ignoring, not to mention the military planning!

Ooh, you can't read that, you're already on your way - fab. Hope you have/had a refreshing week.

LOL Charlotte I know - I was going to post a message this morning, then thought "oh, she won't see it!" But I'm so pleased that her brother stayed over there last night - I'd be willing to bet that headed off quite a bit of problems from her ex right there. Looking forward to her posting when she gets back about what a wonderful time they had!

I've just found out on fb that a friend of mine has gotten back together with her ex. I'm a bit floored as he was not a very nice person to her while they were separated (or while they were together if I'm honest).

They separated right before stbx and I did, and we often discussed how we had both split for much the same reasons. It's really thrown me. I'm baffled how she can forgive some of the stuff he did or be comfortable living with him again. She's a friend, so I will be supportive of her and I will respect her choices. I'm just confused, I suppose. I just can't imagine putting aside all the stuff stbx did, so I struggle to see how someone else could. Who knows, maybe this time it'll work, I have no idea if he's changed as I haven't seen him and I haven't had the chance to chat with her since school has gotten out due to schedules and dcs. She's gone to school now and got a good job, is more confident, she quit smoking. I hope that she will bring that confidence and positivity into the relationship and stand her ground when she needs to. I want her to be happy, she deserves it.

Or maybe she will use her new confidence to see there really is no future and make a more definite break next time round? I was stupid enough to go back, to fall for FW's charm all over again (soooo long since I'd seen it before - and he was lovelier than he'd ever been before), but in the end it took just six weeks to decide that I just couldn't stay.

Whatever. As you say, the key thing is that she is happy and she knows that she deserves it.

Sorry, I think I just have a lot of "stuff" jumbled up inside my head and this was just one more thing to get my head around and I just hit that mental block. A few days to sort my head out needed, I think.

Yesterday KD put in one of his messages that he regrets destroying our marriage and that he wishes he could turn the clock back and put it right. I just makes me so sad. He's had so many opportunities to put it right, and yet he just continued to make poor choices. Still was as of last week for heaven's sake.

I think what makes me sad is that even if he did turn himself around, get counselling, sort himself out, I don't think I could get past how he's behaved in the past anyway. And I feel like I have to be careful what I say because I don't want to tip him over the edge again, but I am just so tired and so sad right now.

And weirdly enough, I think I've just been "warned off" him by his best friend. WTF is THAT all about??

Maybe tell his best friend to leave you alone. He has no right to contact you, and it is intrusive. What you need is them all to leave you alone.

What your KD is doing is try to get you to go into 'fix' mode. You know, where you think doing x,y or z can make it better. 'Fix' mode sustained your marriage long after it should have ended.

I get that you don't want to say the wrong thing for fear of his actions, but what he is saying is really very unfair on you. I am trying to think of a statement which basically says to him, 'I think you need to talk to someone professionally about what you are feeling. I am the wrong person to talk to after everything that has happened'. And if he persists, 'please leave me alone'. He may well think what he says, but there is no sorry in those sentences. He regrets it because of the mess of his life, not because he has hurt you.

And that is fine, he can regret it; but it is selfish to think that aloud to you when there is no apology.

Yes, I do feel like he is expecting support from me, and I just don't have it to give tbh. I already have enough to contend with and do not need any additional pressure. I tried to support him for the last 3 years we were together and just got abusive behaviour in return, and I am not prepared to support him this time.

I feel that it is his family's responsibility to support him, not mine. I know they will think I am a heartless bitch, and they're all blaming this on me anyway (for some reason his "fiancé" that just dumped him last month is blameless - go figure) even though we've been separated for over a year.

I can already feel the pressure building, as his family is tip toeing around him with concern. I'm going to be painted as the bad guy anytime I don't just roll over and agree with him, as they are worried about his mental health so they don't want him to be upset. I will not just agree to whatever he wants simply because he's had a breakdown.

Quite right, Alice. And it's difficult to see it when you're right there in the thick of it, but their opinion of you is not one that matters. It's just more of the same abuse - he matters more than you. He is real to them in a way that you're not.

Be kind to yourself. Block contact from them as much as you can. You're quite right not to support him. He has support - and you have precious little, and dependants who need you.

He has support - and you have precious little, and dependants who need you.

And this is the crux of it all for me. The only one that will take care of me is me. And that means I need to put myself and my dcs as my number one priority.

It's going to take some steel to stand firm on this one, as I know the boundaries are going to be pushed like mad now. I'm waiting to see whether he returns to old patterns and demands to see the dcs in my home again, or whether he cooperates.

I think if he does not co-operate, then you should go back to your solicitor.

I agree with Charlotte that it is continuing the abuse - blaming you, verbally attacking you, emotionally manipulating you - when they should simply leave you alone. No matter what is going on with KD, you are separated and it is not your issue.

It is truly exhausting, and yes, you need your energy for you and dcs. On a much more minor scale, FW here has used his mental state to ignore a boundary I set and harass me, and it completely plays on all your natural compassion. But it is psychological abuse, because he should be leaving me alone. It is the separation equivalent of continually talking when I was trying to work or watch something I wanted to watch, or accompanying me everytime I went out with friends and never letting me have time to myself. And I feel compassion because I am still trying to understand, and guilt because I did not check my phone, and fear that he will be annoyed with me... and that is how it works.

Yes, I agree it plays on natural compassion. I have to really work to keep it business-like, because as soon as I relax even the slightest it's right back to pushing boundaries again.

I actually think the contact centre would be a relief, as then it's not a matter of figuring out where to take the dcs that is safe and child friendly every contact visit. And yes, it should be KD that is sorting where we meet him, however, he doesn't make an effort for it to be somewhere that the dcs enjoy or that is safe and disability friendly for ds1. So in order to keep my own sanity, I have been choosing. (and paying for the dcs as he is not working) I think this is going to have to stop. He needs to start taking responsibility for organising appropriate meeting places. I just know the minute I leave it up to him, he's going to demand my house or MIL's house. And I've already told him that's not happening.

It just shouldn't be this frustrating and stressful every. single. visit.

I'm going to think about the best way to do this to put some of the responsibility on him where it belongs.