Inviting a Crossdresser on your Hen Night

[rachelmonday1]

I'm actually a guy that enjoys crossdressing and am very fortunate to have a number of female friends, one of whom is getting married and has invited me to join her friends on her Hen Night. I don't look too bad when I'm dressed as Rachel and often go out with the girls with no problems.

I'm happily married and my wife understands the "Rachel" side of me, but thinks it's odd that a girl would invite a crossdresser on her Hen Night.

Any views out there?

I generally agree with Offred here. My daughter is into Cosplay. She dresses up as characters of either sex, superheroes or manga. It is just dressing up and pretending to be a character.
I do find the idea of a man dresssing up as and "pretending to be" a woman offensive, and what the hell is a girlie drink? Many of my friends drink beer.
The Op's idea of being a woman is skirt, giggling and a white wine for the laydee!
Fair enough where a dress but why can't he keephis usual behaviour and personality, I don't adopt a different persona when I'm wearing trousers.
It's sexist nonsense.

WEAR a dress

I never called you brain dead.

I also never said you were trying to be cool for thinking life's 'too short'.

I objected to you trying to insult me personally because I was saying things you didn't like.

I recently spent an awful lot of time watching RuPaul's Drag Race whilst learning to breastfeed my firstborn. I remember being up at 3am, in slightly sick covered pjs and with bleeding nipples and lochia and the rest of it, watching a man in drag with rubber breasts 'lip synching for his life', and thinking that what he was doing couldn't have been further away from my identity as female if he was dressing up as a unicorn.

That really resonates & explains why it doesn't just feel like harmless fun. Cross dressers choose a parody of femininity that bears no relation to actually being a woman. 'Rachel' sounds like she may as well be a unicorn, for all she represents being female.

Being a woman is not about skirts, heels & girly drinks and I think women are entitled to be annoyed when a man acts like it is.

No - you said 'try engaging your brain' I think you'll find.
And I don't like what (some of) what you say because a lot (but not all) of what your said is bitter and twisted, and quite clearly with agenda.

Yes I have an agenda. Most of us have.

My agenda is to challenge misogyny where I see it and to point out where it occurs, to stand up for women's rights and to discuss issues which affect women with other women on t'interweb. Among others. I may have other agendas as well but they're not relevant to this topic.

What's your's?

I said I thought you should engage your brain because you were belittling me for engaging mine and you thought I should stop overthinking and just drink wine

You keep intimating I have some kind of problem with my ex btw which couldn't be further from the truth because he isn't a cross dresser.

I fancy men in dresses. I fancy women in dresses. The common denominator is a dress, not any association it has (I.e. Femininity).

Offred hasn't said at any point men shouldn't wear whatever they want (just as women should be able to). If you are a man and like wearing a dress, drinking cocktails and doing your nails- be a man who drinks cocktails, wears a dress and does his nails. Don't do it in the name of "women" or "femininity". Because just as many women are at home in trousers, having a pint. And they're still "being women".

Great night out! Some hesitant girls at first but all wanted to be Facebook friends after talking to me. A huge win for the 21st century and apologies to all of you feminists.........

When I initially starting reading this I didn't really have any particular views either way , but the more I've considered what Offred and others say , the more I think what you do is deeply offensive.
Askbasils post at 20.16 sums up how I also feel about this. In fact the more I think about it the more offended I become.

I think your post at 11.28 about girls liking pretty things and make up is incredibly sexist . Also your claim that women enjoy talking to you because not many men understand the pressures to look good , is also ridiculous. I assure you that women have more pressing things to worry about than looking good. You have indeed showed your sexist views with these comments , along with statements about girly drinks.

I'm also dubious as to why when you dress like that you seek out the company of women. It's my guess that when your dressed like that , and your with women , you get away with behaviour and comments that you otherwise wouldn't if you were dressed as a man.

It's my belief that a group of men would not tolerate you like this , nor would they tolerate you imitating a woman . I don't think they would laugh along because your imitating their wives.

You would not get away with making comments like that at work. Imagine suggesting to a female colleague she gets herself a girly drink , or commenting that girls like pretty things and make up. Better still imagine prancing around the office impersonating a woman , complete with body language and gushing about understanding the need to look good.

No one would laugh. Everybody would be offended.

You'd be in trouble real quick. So if it's not ok to do that at work , why is it ok to subject your female friends to that sort of mockery ?

Rachel/Richard, glad you had a brilliant night out, and it all went well. Did you go for the brunette? (I do think it looks better on you, blonde can be a bit hash on people our age)

Badbalding, do you see how threatening your comments are? Various people "would not tolerate" Rachel/Richard wearing a frock, and having a good time? How would they express their intolerance?

Very interesting thread, especially Offred's contributions.

The OP's view of women and their typically female body language and 'girly drinks' is so offensive to me. My female friends are as different from each other as they are to my male friends. There is no typical female gesture (beyond hitching up a bra strap) and we don't all drink cosmopolitans. And empathising with the pressure on women to look good would REALLY get my back up.

Well , if he was imitating a woman at work , and making sexist comments about girly drinks and pretty things , I guess they would express their intolerance by disciplining him or sacking him. I imagine expressing those views would be offensive , whether he was wearing a dress or a man's suit.

If he simply wanted to wear a dress I don't think anyone would care or be offended.

I wouldn't bat an eye if my colleague Richard came into work wearing a head scarf or a type of robe similar to Muslims. If he declared himself to be raj , and started mimicking the accent of an Asian person , making stereo Typical statements about maybe their religion or culture , I think I'd be pretty offended. Wouldn't you ?

Richard you can be feminine and feminist. How can you want to identify with women and then not embrace feminism (equality for all)? Seems very clear your behaviour is purely about appearance and image.

It's a bit of fun and pleasure for you, but your behavior throws up a lot of questions and holds up a mirror to our culture and how it creates a 2D idea of what female is.

"A huge win for the 21st century" ah yes, because reducing women to a stereotype of simpering whilst drinking "feminine drinks", sitting in a dress and wig is a huge leap forward

See this is my point from earlier about bush and Afghanistan. He's trying to adopt the language of tolerance and equality in order to protect himself and his interests whilst doing something which actually undermines and subverts those ideals...

What a fascinating thread. Think I have changed my opinion several times.

Firstly, hen nights and stag nights can be pretty ghastly whether they're spa weekends or clubbing or whatever- I do think that they tend to go along the lines of reinforcing very old fashioned stereotypes of men, women and marriage. Maybe one day customs will change, or people will evolve out of marriage as an institution....

Second, the cross dressing has me really pondering now. My initial reaction was yeah, fab! Who cares what someone is or how they dress- it's not about tolerance but about acceptance so that no one should bat an eyelid if they see a cross dresser anywhere (not just a hen night)

However, while I still hold that opinion generally, and thoroughly take the point made my some that it's pretty brave to go out cross dressed in most city centres and to go out with strangers...

... this thread has made me think actually, no, cross dressing doesn't celebrate femininity, it takes the piss out of it, really- and in a world that is still deeply misogynistic. Hmm. How much of an issue is that? Well, in the scheme of things I don't think cross dressing is that biggest thing women have to fight. But it's part of the issue and women and men on this thread need to join the dots between gender stereotypes, unequal pay, domestic abuse etc.
OP, I'm not sure what this thread was for, I think you maybe wanted some validation and celebration of your choices, which you've had and I'm glad you all had a great time on the hen do.

But I reckon the bravest person on the thread was actually Offred who put a different point of view, got a pasting for it and stuck to her guns- and changed my mind.

Ps OP, hope this thread has made you see that Rachel doesn't have to live as if she is trapped in some perpetual Boots advert with 'Here Come The Girls' blaring out in the background as she totters along sipping a Lambrini.

Thanks springheeled, that's very nice of you to say. :)

I haven't forgotten that Kim, I explained what I felt about that up thread.

Just as a wider point rachel/Richard do you not mind that a lot of these people do not give a shit about you and who you are but are collecting you because you are superficially unusual/interesting/say something about who they are if they 'friend' you?

I think it's sad tbh and a consequence of you not being able to really be who you are - a man with both 'feminine' and 'masculine' characteristics/interests. Why can't you just be who you are with everyone? Perhaps you'd make some deeper connections and people wouldn't treat you like a curiosity. You're reducing yourself along with women generally when you do this... IMO

Agree with Springheeled - you've done a great job on this thread Offred, opening many people's eyes to another perspective on cross dressing which many of us agreeing with. And managed to stay calm in the face of the hard of thinking 'get a grip' brigade - not easily done!