Inviting a Crossdresser on your Hen Night

[rachelmonday1]

I'm actually a guy that enjoys crossdressing and am very fortunate to have a number of female friends, one of whom is getting married and has invited me to join her friends on her Hen Night. I don't look too bad when I'm dressed as Rachel and often go out with the girls with no problems.

I'm happily married and my wife understands the "Rachel" side of me, but thinks it's odd that a girl would invite a crossdresser on her Hen Night.

Any views out there?

I'm genuinely sorry you get abused Off - I can see you're generally angry about this episode as a whole but ultimately Rachel was trying to pluck up the guts to go to a party in a dress/outfit traditionally associated with women and he got a lecture on sexism. I find it quite bizarre.

Perhaps you could argue men who wear items of 'women's clothes' might be showing it up for what it is but not men who are aping women no. Not for me I'm afraid.

*issue - not episode

It wouldn't even occur to a man to write about feeling 'empowered' because he had all the power to start with. It's his right, as a man.

I don't buy this either. If you are poor, black and gay, as many of the men on the 1980s New York trans house scene were (again, see Paris Is Burning) then you probably don't feel you have a lot of power.

Maybe watch Eddie Izzard 'Dressed to Kill' - if you haven't already. He talks a lot about transvestism.

I see it as a homage to women to be honest. Why some women (or men) would want to glue other people's hair to their skalp, wear shoes that cut their feet and cause blisters and wear skirts/dresses that you can't bend down in without showing your privates seems like lunacy to me. Honestly.
But it's not sexism - it's their choice, they're brave, (albeit uneccesarily) painful choice. And that's fine.

Others shun make up and wear pain clothes - and that's brave too.

But most people seek a compromise, I expect t

o be able to wear what I want without judgement. From anyone.

Oh FGS brave would be if they wore the clothes to the office and shopping and random stuff and didn't pretend to be women while they wore them.

I would probably have quite a larf with a bloke on a hen night dressed up in women's clothes because you enter into the spirit of the thing and I'm sure it would all add to the gaiety of the occasion, but I agree with those who say that just because you accept it out of politeness, doesn't mean you can't question it or critique it.

I think the reason some transvestites make so many women feel uncomfortable, is because they are offering an unflattering ridiculous version of "femaleness" to be the subject of ribald humour. It reminds us of our "othering". Because a man portraying a woman is of necessity, portraying something ridiculous, isn't he? Men are the norm and women are the other and women are fucking ridiculous, with their tits and their hips and their hair and their nail varnish and their mascara and their heels, so what else can a man be inviting us to do when he dresses in women's clothes, but laugh? When men aren't being invited to want to fuck women or stone them for their wickedness, they are being invited to laugh at them.

I think that unconscious contempt for us paraded by men in "our" clothes, makes us feel uncomfortable because we have an inkling that that's what it is - contempt. Not conscious, acknowledged, out there contempt, but under the surface, denied and unrecognised. And of course we can't bear that, it's fucking painful to see how laughable we are seen as, so what's the best defence? To join in with the laughter and to pretend that everything's OK, we're all equal now and there's no issue and no such thing as misogyny, which is all a TERF fantasy.

Quodlibet I once saw a brilliant drag performer who did exactly what you said - showed up the ridiculous construction of femininity for what it is.

But only 1 and I've seen quite a few drag performers. Most of them weren't so clever, all I got from them was a latent misogyny lurking beneath the feather boas.

I know crossdressers see it as an homage to women. I don't. It's an homage to what they think women are and I don't want an homage in any case. I'd like equality. Wearing whatever you want without judgement from anyone is a stupid plan - nazi outfits, blacking up etc. Not wearing something that is goady and oppressive seems like a good plan and it isn't the wearing as such it's the aping and the reasons you are wearing it that matter e.g. Wearing in protest, wearing because of oppression are very different to wearing in order to be complicit with oppression.

Offred I think there's a whole spectrum of drag which encompasses androgyny as well as very tongue in cheek versions of stereotypical femininity - and sometimes the same person could oscillate between these things. I also think it's possible to comment on something and perform it at the same time. There are all kinds of layers of nuance in drag culture which for me your argument is too rigid to accommodate.

Off if I had a quid for every time you said 'aping' on this thread - I'd buy everyone a drink. I've g

AskBasil there are lots of parts of your argument I agree with too, and I do appreciate that there is also very non-reflective drag which does seem just unfortunately rooted in very misogynist ideas about the differences between men and women. But I don't think just cos it sometimes is, it follows that it always is.

Yes women have more choice of clothing but only because they are ridiculed no matter what they wear. Men only get ridiculed when they ape women

What utter nonsense!
Men do get ridiculed for what they wear when they are not aping women.
Socks and sandals
Over 40 in jeans
Budgie smugglers
Sarong
Crocs
White socks with shoes
Creased ill fitting suits
Un-ironed shirts
Waistline overhang
Vest tops

There are some people who will ridicule others. Just because the ridicule is aimed at the clothing, it does not automatically make it sexist.

Off if I had a quid for every time you said 'aping' on this thread - I'd have.... Well, I'd buy everyone a drink. I've gone a full circle - lightnen the f up!

I find your 'feminist' ranting more sexist (and offensive) than a bloke in lashes and a spangly top. It's embarrassing and reminds me of the first page of replies where you said something about your ex dressing up. Find peace with whatever it is that's pissed you off -

Feminists always get accused of ranting. What is it about that word in partic?

Off is ranting - feminist or not.

She strikes me as the type of person who if some one tapped her on the shoulder and said they'd dropped a fiver and offered it to her - she'd want a half hour row about why they were following her!

It's not always the ones than use the longest words and get the most outraged that are doing the best service to women.

Well said AskBasil.

Well - when I lost my hair from chemo and was wearing a head scarf because I felt so uncomfortable from having no hair - if anyone had ever called me 'sexist' for not wanting to show my head and wanting to appear as 'feminine' as I used to before a disease robbed me of my identity (not as a woman - but as a person) I wouldn't have been held responsible for my actions.

Some people on this thread need to seriously get a grip and realise that life's too short to be arguing about what people are wearing.

Frankly, it's a fucking insult.

Rachel I hope the night is a huge successes. Rise above the idiots x

Ivehearditallnow I get the feeling you don't really understand what Offred is actually saying.

I very much doubt that she would have called you sexist for calling a scarf. Obviously I can't speak for her, but she doesn't come across as an idiot so I am assuming she isn't one.

Sorry for wearing a scarf.

We don't usually call scarves do we?

Oh well bully for you - I'm obviously too 'stupid' to keep up with your boring conversation about feminism.

LOL.

I don't think it's boring, I find what Offred is saying quite interesting.

Again, good for you.

LOL all you want.

She called me 'brain dead' for daring to say a man can go out in mixed company wearing a dress and then said I was 'trying to be cool' for thinking life's too short (believe me, it is!) and then said she has been ridiculed when she was out and about. I got called a 'lesbian' and a 'man' when I went out with a bald head - she's not the only person to have been judged on appearances.

This thread is unpleasant.

Good luck OP - keep in touch on inbox xxx

Kim, the most famous women I can think of who for "dressing as men" are Joan of Arc who got burnt to death for it and Marlene Dietrich.

Marlene Dietrich's interesting because it was a playing with sex roles wasn't it, but in a quite conventional way in a sense - it was her taking the "masculine" role of owning her sexuality and being in charge of it and therefore "wearing the trousers".

I mean the phrase "wearing the trousers" says it all really doesn't it. It means being in charge, being in control. Which is supposed to be male.