Inviting a Crossdresser on your Hen Night

[rachelmonday1]

I'm actually a guy that enjoys crossdressing and am very fortunate to have a number of female friends, one of whom is getting married and has invited me to join her friends on her Hen Night. I don't look too bad when I'm dressed as Rachel and often go out with the girls with no problems.

I'm happily married and my wife understands the "Rachel" side of me, but thinks it's odd that a girl would invite a crossdresser on her Hen Night.

Any views out there?

I have attended many hen nights with blokes there. Mostly do to the nature if hen nights they tend to be cross dressers, transgender, or 'feminine' gay men. So no I wouldn't find it odd in the slightest.
I dress in jeans and t-shirt most of the time but when I go out with the girls I tend to dress in feminine clothes, fake eyelashes, big hair the lot. I also tend to become more girly in my body language etc. I am a woman but I do exactly the same thing as Rachel.
Where I used to work there were two transgender people and a cross-dresser (very LGBT friendly environment due to the industry) there was also a man who dressed femininely. Jeans and a woman's top just like a 'real' woman. He never suggested he wanted to be known by the female pronouns but had a unisex name, I don't know if this was his given name. He was the only one I ever heard anyone say anything negative about. People would always say they couldn't work him out and would avoid him. Society put us in two categories ime when men dress in the middle it freaks people out and they do not know how to relate to them.
When Rachel goes out as Rachel he is not trying to be a woman but he is being a cross-dresser. If he was trying to pass he would probably choose different clothes. Why is that not okay?
Also you look great Rachel I'd be proud to have you at my hen do, don't let people spoil your fun by reading so much into everything.

when I go out with the girls I tend to dress in feminine clothes, fake eyelashes, big hair the lot.

Well yes because in a sexist environment it is more likely you will feel you need to conform to gender stereotypes.

People would always say they couldn't work him out and would avoid him. Society put us in two categories ime when men dress in the middle it freaks people out

That's part of my point.

If he was trying to pass he would probably choose different clothes.

That's not consistent with what he has said - that he puts a lot of effort into aping women so that he passes.

Wearing items of clothing/other affectations typically associated with women does not make you a crossdresser. Crossdressing is not about the clothes themselves it is about crossdressing - important that the things are considered female not that they are things you like.

Offers I guininely don't need to not everybody I hang out dresses up. I do it because I want to and enjoy the change of role. I don't conform during the day so why on the odd night (not every night out) would I suddenly feel the pressure.
I think the problem is society not Rachel and not cross dressers. Rachel IMO does not contribute to stereotypes anymore than I do or most of the world.

Yes she does because she is a man telling women how women dress.

And if you're truly dressing how you like and not to pass in a sexist environment how exactly are you contributing to stereotypes?

A few random thoughts come to mind.

First "dressing up" in an extravagantly feminine way can be a lot of fun. It's gives a lot of pleasure and currently there often aren't many socially acceptable times you can go OTT with color, bling, fabrics etc. I go to a big Christmas party each year and this year I wore a gold sequin dress which my kids picked out! It was a stretch fabric, sounds hideous but was great. Now it's mothballed for who knows how long. At different times in history different genders, different ages and classes have been "allowed" to be more outrageous/attention getting than others.

I agree that men who either "cross-dress" or identify as female do so all the times I have personally witnessed and known in a very stereotypical image of a woman: Perfect 50s housewife, glam starlet or in Richard/Rachel's case a sort of 80s/90s Kent Nightclub goer. (If a man dresses as a cleaner or working class woman in inexpensive clothes it is usually done for purposes of mockery and considered comedy.) I have never seen these men desperately wanting to be pregnant or mimicking the marks that would identify them as biologically female such as pretending to breastfeed. So it does seem more of a case that some behavior that they want to display is not socially acceptable (such as the extreme femme display) but I'm not convinced that it's because they are experiencing the world as a female. They don't embrace the "hard" parts of being gendered female such as the slog of raising kids but more those that are socially rewarded for females - dressing to attract men. (This is the first time I have waded in with such observations so my apologies if I have been crass in some way).

I agree that gender is mostly socially constructed, however we do have biological differences throughout our lives. We have a different chemical make up and our hormones can affect our behavior quite dramatically. Our brains are also constructed differently. (I could give more details on that but DH who is on-call as a Neurologist lying in bed next to me says "he doesn't want to think about it right now!" too much like work so will maybe come back to that in a later post )

slugs and I cross-posted regarding the pleasure found in dressing up, something that hasn't been discussed.

The brain is 'constructed' or more accurately connected through experience though. It is not an indicator of an inherent difference between men and women that scientists may have found physical differences in the brain.

Someone has already explained the hormone thing.

Other than that it's an interesting point that the part of sexist oppression of women they particularly ape is that women are required to be sexy.

Just also wanted to add that I'm not using sexist as interchangeable with misogynist always on this thread. Sexist is including gender stereotypes about what men are required to be. Sexism is damaging for everyone not just women.

I agree with you, Offred

Sorry I missed the "hormone thing" explanation. Could you elaborate?

Basically Honey, hormones can make a physical difference to whether or not you are male or female and can be adjusted throughout life, such as HRT, etc. but how a person behaves is either a personal choice or social conditioning.

I am female. I have female hormones. I do not 'dress up' like a woman to go out. I look well presented but I do not parody a certain type of woman with all the trappings.

Crossdressers do not go out dressed like me. If they did, they would look like a man with a little bit of makeup on.

No it's not the change of name that bothers me, it's the pretending to be a woman (or rather a girl!) In order to embrace his "feminine" side. And cherry-picking certain parts, the OTT 'sexy' look rather than the reality.

He could be male and still feminine. Yes I find it offensive, but hard to explain why - honey said it better.

Very interesting thread. I too agree with Offred. I've always been uncomfortable with men crossdressing but have not until now been able to articulate why.
It just feels patronising, basically. I think that's my instinctive reaction. I feel patronised.

... it's like gender tourism I suppose I'd call it. How lovely that you can pop in and visit. Some of us have to live here.

That is brilliant somewhere.

If a man actually just wants to wear a skirt, I have no problem with that at all. Just don't try and "dress up as a woman" It is bloody patronising because it is enacting a stereotype of what a woman dress likes. And when women are expected to laugh at it, they are being asked to laugh at the idea of women.

Can't really say why this is related but I saw in the DM online an article with dozens of pictures of women wearing extreme femme outfits at some house race. Then saw the whole thing reproduced in a NY newspaper online. (I read loads of random newspaper from all over). In this case it was very much about mocking these women for not doing feminine "right" it seemed to me. Made me think there are quite strict rules to this "femme image" thing. If Rachel copied some of these women with their skyscraper heels, tulle, major cleavage and tattoos then she/he would be mistaken for a drag queen. I don't mean that cruelly I mean it as fact. Shows how much class is also signified in these "feminine" getups as I mentioned upthread.

But hormones do affect behavior. We have hormones that enable and encourage us to breastfeed and bonding hormones that obviously do shape behavior. A lack in these hormones can cause an adult to not bond with ignore or neglect a baby.

Offred do you not think that the meanings you have attached to clothing are rather anachronistic? Surely encouraging men and women to feel free to wear the clothes traditionally thought of as for the other gender is a good thing?

If hormones were causing OP to 'behave' like a woman, he would do that whether he was dressed as a woman or not though wouldn't he?

It seems as though I've missed a lot in the last few hours and it also seems as though I've started something that is far deeper than I ever imagined. I'll try to explain, but it's very difficult to do so in written form and far easier in conversation, which invariably happens when I'm out.

A man wearing a dress or other clothes currently associated with women, can be the object of ridicule, even in this day and age. Therefore my choices are to accept this ridicule (and possible violence), not go out, or to dress and act in a way that not stand out and be noticed.

I choose the latter and if society was more tolerant, I would wear a skirt or dress far more often as Richard, but that is not the case. Therefore when I go out shopping, I will try to dress in a way that most women do......sometimes a skirt but usually jeans or trousers, with makeup and wig. If I'm "out with the girls" (and they love to wear pretty clothes and makeup) I will dress accordingly.

There is no way that I want to actually BE a woman as I honestly believe that their (your) lives are far more hectic and demanding than mens. Part of the reason that women enjoy my company as Rachel is that we often discuss the fact that verry few men have the faintest idea of the the pressures a woman is under in order to "look good", but I can directly relate to that.

This thread has helped me see this even more, but there is no way that I am intentionally demeaning women, I respect them far to much to do that. I simply enjoy sharing their time and try to fit into situations and locations that allow me to dress in a way that enjoy. I can accept the points about what women are expected to conform to in society, but so many women love getting dressed up and seem to enjoy it.