Inviting a Crossdresser on your Hen Night

[rachelmonday1]

I'm actually a guy that enjoys crossdressing and am very fortunate to have a number of female friends, one of whom is getting married and has invited me to join her friends on her Hen Night. I don't look too bad when I'm dressed as Rachel and often go out with the girls with no problems.

I'm happily married and my wife understands the "Rachel" side of me, but thinks it's odd that a girl would invite a crossdresser on her Hen Night.

Any views out there?

I'm a tomboyish sort with hobbies that are usually male dominated. Due to this I've always tended to have more male friends than female friends. So, when I got married ten years ago, I had as many men attending my Hen do (at Alton Towers) as women.

I jokingly suggested that the men who attended could dress up in womens clothes, given that historically hen events were female only. Several of them did and had great fun doing so! So, basically, I wouldn't bat an eye at a crossdressing man attending a Hen do. I've been the Hen and seen it happen.

For preference I dress in clothes typically considered to be male attire and no-one is worried. I don't see why men shouldn't dress in clothes typically considered to be female attire if it's appropriate to the setting they're in and that's what they want to wear! It doesn't affect me and I bet a lot of men have much nicer legs and can pull off wearing a dress or a skirt much better than I ever could.

I hope that you have a wonderful time on the Hen do, Op!

The animal kingdom isn't comparable at all anyway. Animals don't tend to care for their babies beyond actual physical dependency and beyond mammals where the female has to milk feed or the baby does animals often share the feeding. It is often the male animals who have to look pretty too.

Or the baby dies!

Not comparable in terms of confirming sexist stereotypes I mean.

Ok I was probably wrong to use the general term animal kingdom, as all species are so vastly different.
They do all adopt different roles, but generally there IS a difference between genders, regardless of what that difference is, especially in species most similar to us.
Male monkeys tend to be far more aggressive and territorial than their female counterparts, and the females more nurturing and protective of their young. But both genders together provide the balance that is necessary for the species.
Most baby monkeys stay with the mother for at least 2 years, so well beyond physical dependency.

I completely disagree with the notion that girls are programmed to like pink, but I do believe I am innately female, and this is reflected in my behaviour/inclinations etc.
I do accept that as humans we are very complex, and this therefore manifests itself in very complex ways within us. Society definitely plays a large role in gender stereotyping and I completely agree that women aren't born liking pink or wanting fluffy sparkly things, but there IS a difference that goes beyond societal influences, IMO anyway. I realize there is a vast amount of research out there with differing results.

Why don't you wear whatever you want as Richard ? Why do you have to pretend to be a woman?

I would struggle to accept him as a woman because he's not one

Why could you not accept him as a man dressed up as a woman?
He isn't trying to con people into believing he is a woman, he is being a man who happens to enjoy embracing his feminine side.

I don't believe that equality means that women are not allowed to he feminine. There is nothing wrong with being feminine or masculine, either as a man or a woman.

I'm sure there are differences in behaviours related to roles which are taken on, when labour is not divided equally it polarises. A parent having sole responsibility for caring is therefore likely to adapt their behaviour to care, the other parent who also has an interest in the child surviving is likely to adapt their behaviour to defence as a way of sharing in the survival of the child.

If parenting roles persist beyond physical dependency in some areas of the animal kingdom as in humans it is surely logical to assume it is because a conscious choice has not been made to break with roles assumed for convenience. It's still socially constructed basically, not inherent because of sex differences.

Women are no better at caring for nor worse at defending their children.

Why don't you wear whatever you want as Richard ? Why do you have to pretend to be a woman?

So it's just using an alternative name that is the problem?
He can wear the dress and the heels and the makeup, but using the name Rachel means he is pretending to be a woman, and that is when it crosses the line of acceptability for you?

And patriarchal society doesn't want women to care for children because they are better at it. It's because keeping women in low or no paid work keeps them within the power of their male owners who seek to control their reproduction in order to ensure their contribution is being made to their own child.

Reminds me of Stewart lee and Paul nutalls from the UKIPs

I mentioned this in terms of historical context only because I'm picking up on previous posts doing so

Historical or otherwise, people should be free to make the choices they want to make because it's what they like.

Oh, I agree with that completely.

People should be free to make choices.

Which is why it is not ok to use relative freedom to narrow down the choices of other people who have less freedom than you have, IMO.

most, I think you've not read the thread? Not criticising, it's a long thread, it's just the OP has explained this bit before.

Oops, sorry, I am triple post because I skipped over your post, bench.

I think my difficulty is, when you compare any one animal to a human, it's easy to say 'wow, like us, they see gender'. But then, when you look at animals as a whole, it's harder to defend that. Is it not possible that they are simply sexually different? And that we are ascribing gender to what is in fact biology, because we are human and we tend to ascribe human social traits to animals?

I mean ... I'd think a female ape breastfeeds because she has mammary glands, not because she associates that activity with 'femininity'. If a male ape had mammary glands, he'd likely do the same. I'm not convinced he'd attach any sense of identity to it.

People cannot all be free to make choices they like because one person's choice may limit another's it is impossible to achieve. You have to have some limits on absolute freedom in order to achieve an equality and fairness. It's how you limit freedom that is important not saying everyone should be free to do what they want which is basically lawlessness and results in very few people having any freedom. If you're asserting freedom should be limited in some way I'd think it would be clearly right to limit it where it can be shown to be unnecessarily or disproportionately harmful to a group of other people. Fortunately for rachel no one is limiting crossdressing - just criticising it.

Should sleep... Typing going to pot!!

LRD - just seen your post. If we are biologically different though, isn't it natural to assume that we are also psychologically different and this would be reflected in our behaviour? I think they are inextricably linked, and hormones play a large part in this too.
I would be very interested to see what a society of all women would look like, I think gradually some women would adopt more stereotypically male roles, and society would probably mirror what it does now. I think there is and always will be a balance of masculinity and femininity in the world, and unfortunately stereotypes reinforce these to too great an extent.
Getting sleepy now and a bit confused.
You lot have given me a lot to think about!

No, I don't see how that would be natural?

Why so?

I think it's important to remember that we are biologically different in many ways. Would you also assume that a black man and a white man were psychologically different? Because, you see, to me that makes as much sense as assuming a man is different from a woman.

A hen night is usually for women only. A man wearing a dress or a skirt is fine, but "dressing up as a woman" is horribly sexist and the sex equivalent of white people blacking up. Really not acceptable and I would therefore not want you on a hen night I was on.

But our hormones are entirely different? Surely we can't ignore the role hormones have in guiding behaviour. And no I definitely don't feel the same regarding race.

Most , regarding whether I could accept him as a man dressed as a woman.

He's not a man dressing as a woman though. He's a man imitating a woman complete with persona and body language. As others say the stereo
Typical imitation of women is offensive.

Benchmark - Cordelia Fine's book, Delusions of Gender is good at explaining the science. The behavioural differences between women and men that have any scientific biological basis, are miniscule.

But hormones differ quite a lot from person to person - do you think someone who has low oestrogen isn't female any more? And if so, what about women after menopause?

If you think that hormones are responsible for guiding behaviour, does that mean that we should stop all hormone treatments, including those for menopausal women or for transsexuals, on the grounds that their natural hormone level should determine who they are?

Just wanted to say OP, you look fantastic! Have a fab time :)

Very interesting thread. Had never thought about it before but I agree with Offred et al, the more I think about it.

I would be gutted if my friend told me I was invited to an event but only if I came as "cheerful Badger" or "funny badger". I am badger and they are parts of me and I'll come as myself and you'll get what you get. If I happen to be cheerful/cynical (or in a dress) so be it. If they've only ever known me as cynical and I happen to be cheerful that day I'm not gonna repress that to keep them on side. Today I'm different.

Do think it's very odd you're invited if you're wearing a dress and excitable but not if you're wearing jeans/a track suit.

What if it comes to the day and you don't fancy it/aren't feeling it and want to wear something different?