Hoarding DH - At the end of my tether (Long)

[Eatriskier]

Before I launch into the bad stuff, I should say that DH is a generally a lovely and very honest man. He doesn't abuse me in any way, he would barely say boo to a goose and he is a wonderful father to our two young DC. But he has a hoarding issue.

Now, I have always known he has had a tendency towards this. Its always been an problem between us. When we bought our first home together he promised he wouldn't fill it with crap especially as its a small home and I was due our first DC. He agreed to an area he could fill and that it was all he had and he wouldn't encroach anywhere else - he promised to scale down and not buy more.

Unsurprisingly he has massively stuffed this, a large part of our living room, the garage, the loft and half our bedroom with crap. Crap is harsh, some of it is useful but for the main its not useful nor necessary. In massive rows he's promised to get rid but he just boxes stuff up, moves it to a storage locker (which is now pretty much full) and then slowly fills it all back up or buys a new piece of furniture/storage to absorb the stuff.

I can't move all the items of storage and junk to clean properly, my house is becoming filthy. I am ashamed of my own home, I won't invite anyone in. I cannot live like this anymore. I've told DH loads that I am at the point where the kids and I are going to have to leave. He still won't do anything.

He promised me that in a couple of weeks, as he has some time off work, he would sort it. We had a discussion where he promised not to buy more storage (he has hoard of empty storage boxes!!!!) and he would actually get rid, not just move. Then today a load of storage arrived. He said it was to move some of the stuff out.

I'm afraid I lost it and told him to take his stuff and GTFO, his young family aren't going to live like this anymore. His response? He's not leaving his house. Not that he didn't want his family apart, not that he didn't want our marriage to end, but that he wouldn't leave his house and things (which he still didn't say when I called him out on it).

So here I am, whilst he is driving off to storage squeezing more crap into it despite promising yet again he wasn't going to do that and knowing he won't fully empty the furniture so I can't get rid of it and he will refill it with crap again, knowing that the crap means more to him than his wife and kids.

What on earth do I do now? I don't really want to leave and take the kids, but I can't have them living like this, learning this or growing up mortified by their parents and home.

Wish you love and strength eat, 'tis not fair for you to have been out in this position but I think you are absolutely doing the best for your children and I'm very confident you'll carry it through right to the end.

Whatever the end might be.

I would suggest that if he does visit the GP you also sit in on that discussion as well.

FWIW I think you're doing the right thing too.

This is as much about you reaching your point of no return as it is about kicking him up the arse.

Wishing you well, eat. I hope you win through, and that your children don't grow up with this hoarding surrounding them. I didn't add in my previous thread, that I felt totally embarrassed and humiliated by the state of the house thanks to my antique dealer father's hoarding. Everyone knew about it - at my grammar school, classmates used to beg me for an invitation 'to tea', so they could gawp at the place then go back and tell everyone what a tip it was. Honestly, it made Steptoe's yard and house look positively tidy.

Please spare your children that. But it sounds as though you're very determined now and I am so cheering you on.

I feel very sorry for you as my husband is the same We have several rooms that are completely unable to be used or to be used properly because of his piles of stuff He keeps every single magazine he ever buys (25 years + motoring magazines, 5 years mountain biking, 2 years walking), every card he's ever been given, every box for every bloody thing, outgrown/worn out/out of style clothes going back years, paperwork - lots completely unopened/unprocessed/out of date. Every flat surface is colonised by a growing pile of his stuff, encroaching from the walls, blocking cupboard doors & bottom drawers. Lounge has stuff all over the coffee table, chairs & floor, dining room has stuff all over the table & chairs such that it can't be used, office (ws going to be mine) is unusable, bigger room that was going to be turned into an office for him is full of model-making stuff, empty shoe boxes (fucking piles of those), empty beer bottles (he likes the labels & wants to peel them off & keep them - odd hobby but fine, just do it & chuck out the fucking bottles) , out of date chocolates (they were a present), magazines (naturally). The kitchen is nearly clear as is the guest room which doubles as my office but I have to keep up a constant vigil against his stuff accumulating in there. The loft is full (outgrown toys & so many bloody suitcases we could go round the world for a year without needing to wash anything - we just don't need them all but he won't get rid), the garage is full (but tidy - all his stuff - not allowed to have my bike in there) blah blah fucking blah. His mother is exactly the same & I dread to think what will happen when we eventually have to clear his parents' house - he'll want to keep everything. He accepts it's a mess & says he wants rid of the mess but seems incapable of getting rid of it - very angry if I throw things out - thinks I'm too ruthless & unsentimental - I keep stuff that's important to me though. I would not have married him if I'd known how it would be

Sometimes people who are very difficult to live with because of MH issues (or obsessive compulsive behaviours, substance abuse, addictions, whatever) do run out of chances, and the only answer can be to leave them for the good of your own mental health.

Of course people need some understanding and compassion to a point, but if they repeatedly reject all attempts to help them, repeatedly refuse to acknowledge the damaging effects of their behaviour on those around them, they repeatedly reject all advice of ways they can help themselves then eventually they cease to be victims and become the perpetrators of someone else's extreme unhappiness.

poor witch way, you sound so through with it…

My Dh hoards clothes, to a ridiculous extent. he has about 100 shirts for example. And a mountain of shoes.

he has 50 baseball caps.

It is madness. He has his own designated area for his stuff and is quite good at sticking to that.

For us the problem is money, he buys clothes weekly on e-bay. He has started selling some as well, but that makes him feel so good about himself he buys even more. He spent £600 on clothes in the last month alone.

He also has an alcohol problem (though is "dry"now), so I guess he is just one of those addictive personalities. i don't think there is a solution...

Oh witch that sounds just awful. I wish I had some words of wisdom and encouragement other than what good people have given on this thread to me.

WitchWay, that's terrible. Hate to ask this, but have you ever thought of saying 'it's your junk or me?' How long have you been together? Do you have children? Has he ever sought help for this compulsion?

How about this, witch?

Tomorrow, tell him that you understand that he wants to collect the labels. And that it is crazy and wasteful to keep the glass. And that you will help him by getting him started.

Then get 50 of the bottles. Sit him down in the bathroom with a bath 4 in deep in water, and all the bottles on the floor. And some tea-towels to carefully put the damp peeled labels on.

Leave him to it, but notice the time. See how long the process takes. If he says he has to leave them to soak, tell him to clean the basin while he is doing it. Keep him in the bathroom somehow until they are done.

Do all this in a gentle non-sarcastic way. You really want to know How Long It Would Take.

At the end of this exercise, you will both know how long it would take to do all the rest of the bottles.

There are 168 hours in a week. I remember the old song which goes

Lucky lucky lucky me
I'm a lucky son of a gun
I work 8 hours, I sleep 8 hours
That leaves 8 hours for fun

Actually it leaves 8 hours for self care, commuting, family, housework, oh and fun...which in your H's case used to be filled with biking and walking, I dare say?

We all want to live for ever. Hoarding is one of many ways of convincing ourselves we will. Unless he actually lives through some sorting time, he likely won't get it.

(I have no idea whether this will work or not)

I have suggested every possible approach I can think of, other than slinging it all out & suffering the consequences, married 23 years, one teenage son, knows I hate it, says he loves me, I say he doesn't ever show me he does & that the mess makes me miserable - mentioning constitutes "nagging" which is counter-productive. I do sneak out what I can - it's never been noticed so far. He did manage to throw out an old suit & four shirts the other week - woo hoo! I really don't know how i've put up with it for so long Bizarrely he is actually tidier than I if we're away - I'm not that tidy or house proud really, i just want to be able to use the rooms for their intended purpose & have people round more often - he says too embarrassing with the mess

How does your teenage son react/behave? (As we've been talking about hoarding 'legacy' on the thread already.)

You have to put a stop to this or it will get worse and worse. It's a serious mental health problem, hoarding. And don't let it affect your own mental health, OP.

FIL is a terrible hoarder - and your DH will become like this because he doesn't want to change. In FIL's case It broke up his marriage as MIL fled the family home - she was not allowed to move anything - and now lives blissfully in a minimalist, neat as a pin semi.

His 4 bedroom detached house with garage and huge garden is stuffed to the gunnels with utter crap. DH calls it Steptoe's Yard. Oh, and not forgetting FIL's various "yards", which are in fact old waste ground he owns and which he fills with decrepit caravans, old cars "for their parts" (not sure what use anyone has for a rusted-to-the-spot Mark 1 Escort, Cortina, Talbot Sunny, Ford Prefect, Austin Princess......) broken furniture, bikes, magazines, scrap metal, flat pack kitchens, ripped out bathroom suites.... None of it is stored properly, much of it is family rotting.

He keeps extremely odd things, including labelled bags of hair saved from dead family pets, for sentimental reasons. The only thing he doesn't keep is lemonade bottles filled with his own wee.

He gets angry when people describe his possessions as "crap". I have an email forwarded from DH with FIL ranting at his kids that he is not a hoarder of crap but a "conservator of antiques, collectables and objet d'art" . yeah right.

Recently, BIL's wife was diagnosed with a v serious life threatening condition, but all FIL could do was write panic emails to his son that his fridge had broken down. It the end of FIL's world he said. Note that the fridge freezer is one of 5 fridge freezers in his kitchen/pantry plus a chest freezer in the garage that he has stuffed full of ancient and mouldering food. He lives alone and has a bad digestive system.

Eatriskier sorry I have not been back to the thread for a while, been at my friends taking stuff to the skip - progress!!

I am pleased to read you too are making headway. I think you are right to try all options before you call it a day. My friend has gone down the same route and in fact drew up a "contract" with her DH after a number of very long serious talks, it is now very much the last chance saloon for them. However, yesterday as we were clearing and cleaning she was actually laughing and smiling something I've not seen her do for a very long time.

My friend knows she will have to be vigilant and naggy to avoid a relapse and I know she feels resentful of that keeps saying "but why should I have to?" so I am not confident that it will all work out for them, but I do hope so.

Both are aware of why all this has happened, they have had five years of seriously awful stuff which would have broken anyone, I am hoping that now things are getting better for them the hoarding will stop. The effect all of this has had on my friend was heartbreaking to witness which is why I said you may have to go for your own sanity as I would hate anyone else to become as ill and wretched as she has.

I wish you all the best, stay tough and strong. I do hope he goes to the GP but he needs to be totally honest not only about what he is doing/feeling but also the wider effect it has on you and your children. It is an extreme form of behaviour and at the other end are those who ae obsessively tidy/minimalist, I hope you can find a middle ground that you are both comfortable with. Good luck and well done.

witch suggestions are not the way to go. You cannot agree this in advance. What I have suggested to you above would only give him the experience he needs if you do it like I say. Assemble the 50 bottles in the bathroom, run the shallow bath, lay out the tea-towels. Talk to him from the place within you that loves him. You set it up, he does the sorting.

You would do similar if you agreed about the labels, yes? So imagine, just for a short time, that you actual do agree. Only that way can he appreciate the situation by living it.

Just like no-one can ready themselves for the pain of child-birth, no-one can imagine a time interval in advance. It has to be experienced in real-time reality.

YoDiggity -- that was an excellent post. I agree 100%.

Of course people need some understanding and compassion to a point, but if they repeatedly reject all attempts to help them, repeatedly refuse to acknowledge the damaging effects of their behaviour on those around them, they repeatedly reject all advice of ways they can help themselves then eventually they cease to be victims and become the perpetrators of someone else's extreme unhappiness.

THIS^^^

I have been having a bit of a sort/clear-out today. You would be amazed at the number of nail scissors I have. What happened was, I would lose the current pair, so if they didn't turn up I'd buy a new pair. Since my divorce there is only me and the cat, and gradually I've re-accumulated all the lost scissors. But at least they don't take up much room.

Re bottle labels (sorry to sound obsessive ) - I am a collector by nature, and a completist. I could kind of see bottle labels being my thing, it just happens they aren't (although I do have a small collection of old milk bottles, collected years ago when dairies were local and milk was delivered to the door).

Back to bottle labels. If this were my thing, these days I'd be happy to find a site where somebody else interested obsessed by the same thing had put up pictures of bottle labels.

Might that be a satisfactory replacement for your DH, witch? It sounds like he is collecting information, rather than things, in a kind of way.

I recommend Pinterest as a way of collecting information rather than the actual things. It can all be catalogued and sorted and you can look at other people's virtual stuff. And it's free.

But there has to be a line between real life and life online. For someone with an addiction it might be a stepping stone to full on hoarding starting up again, or a way to turn your back on real life and get submerged in the online distraction. I would say if hoarding or avoidance is an issue, only do it with a therapist's OK.

you are right maths.

My Ex spent his days mainly playing Civilisation (not even on the internet). He also pretended to himself that he was working, by selling vinyl records in the 1990s. The house filled up with record cases, and was sometimes also filled with horrible music if he was grading them.

More latterly, he collected Airfix models for his own interest (but it was my money ). Now he calls himself a stamp dealer. He trades on e-bay, filled the house with bought-in stamp albums he was deconstructing, and the floor with old stamp-hinges which he never hoovered up. His conversation became limited to which exact shade of vermilion a particular stamp was. And it didn't make money, or not enough to live on, while taking up as much time as playing and re-playing Civilisation used to.

The kids grew up, I woke up, and now we are divorced.

TheSilverypussycat, scissors and nail clippers are things we find in their dozens for the same reason you did. You can't find something so you buy it again, lose it and buy it again and again etc.

We declutter as a job, we went to see a client yesterday and he had a branch on his floor. We asked what it was for, he had seen an ex girlfriend brush past it and he wanted to keep it hoping it would bring her back to him. Mental health problems are a factor.

He did agree the other day that he could perhaps take pictures of the labels on his phone & ditch the bottles - nothing has happened yet of course…

Eat you have been extremely clear in your recent posts that you have a three week deadline. You have made no bones about it, it is a fixed non-moveable date. If he meets your conditions within the timescale, I think you will need more 'check in' points, perhaps every three weeks would be a good choice.

I think his stuff will start to creep back in and you need to be on guard so that it doesn't sneak up on you. I do hope that he sticks to his side of the agreement, gets the rooms sorted, the storage gone and the redecoration done.

If not, you have been so strong for your children, I am sure you will continue to do what is best for them. As there have been so many others here on your thread experiencing similar situations, maybe you could start a support thread (or someone else could) for families of hoarders and share your tips? Just a thought.

I do hope it goes well for you and look forward to a positive update in three weeks time

There will definitely be more check in points faire. However as much as I want it dealt with now I've got to be realistic that there's a lot of stuff and only so much time available. I won't be letting him use that as an excuse to do nothing though, he needs to be showing he's at least doing something 'positive' (I've currently got a 30 minute a night agreement out of him, where he will list our large pile of to sell stuff on ebay).

I just need to make sure that I don't distract him with my own projects like redecorating and moving furniture as he will probably want to help rather than deal with his stuff. I'm also getting rid of furniture that can hide things away so it will be easier to see if/when he is getting out of hand again. I've been dying to get rid of that furniture just for the space it takes up for ages, but the realisation he has a problem and isn't just a bit messy and clingy has really spurred me on.