Hoarding DH - At the end of my tether (Long)

[Eatriskier]

Before I launch into the bad stuff, I should say that DH is a generally a lovely and very honest man. He doesn't abuse me in any way, he would barely say boo to a goose and he is a wonderful father to our two young DC. But he has a hoarding issue.

Now, I have always known he has had a tendency towards this. Its always been an problem between us. When we bought our first home together he promised he wouldn't fill it with crap especially as its a small home and I was due our first DC. He agreed to an area he could fill and that it was all he had and he wouldn't encroach anywhere else - he promised to scale down and not buy more.

Unsurprisingly he has massively stuffed this, a large part of our living room, the garage, the loft and half our bedroom with crap. Crap is harsh, some of it is useful but for the main its not useful nor necessary. In massive rows he's promised to get rid but he just boxes stuff up, moves it to a storage locker (which is now pretty much full) and then slowly fills it all back up or buys a new piece of furniture/storage to absorb the stuff.

I can't move all the items of storage and junk to clean properly, my house is becoming filthy. I am ashamed of my own home, I won't invite anyone in. I cannot live like this anymore. I've told DH loads that I am at the point where the kids and I are going to have to leave. He still won't do anything.

He promised me that in a couple of weeks, as he has some time off work, he would sort it. We had a discussion where he promised not to buy more storage (he has hoard of empty storage boxes!!!!) and he would actually get rid, not just move. Then today a load of storage arrived. He said it was to move some of the stuff out.

I'm afraid I lost it and told him to take his stuff and GTFO, his young family aren't going to live like this anymore. His response? He's not leaving his house. Not that he didn't want his family apart, not that he didn't want our marriage to end, but that he wouldn't leave his house and things (which he still didn't say when I called him out on it).

So here I am, whilst he is driving off to storage squeezing more crap into it despite promising yet again he wasn't going to do that and knowing he won't fully empty the furniture so I can't get rid of it and he will refill it with crap again, knowing that the crap means more to him than his wife and kids.

What on earth do I do now? I don't really want to leave and take the kids, but I can't have them living like this, learning this or growing up mortified by their parents and home.

[hellsbellsmelons]

Really glad to read your update.
Things are progressing and that's so good to hear.
I hope he keeps going.

[Eatriskier]

cozie no, he's not angry about it. A bit sad and resigned I think.

[cozietoesie]

You're all doing well.

Do I get the feeling correctly that he is starting to get a bit angry about the process though?

[Eatriskier]

Sorry - not ignoring people here, this just fell off my threads and took me ages to find again.

why thank you so much for your post. Seems like your dw and me may have similar thought processes ourselves as what you've written is precisely what I'm doing! In the very least it's good to see its worked elsewhere, gives me a bit more hope.

We're on day 3 of dhs break now and there have been eBay things going out the door loads, the living room is almost complete so next step is our bedroom. Dh hasn't had much issue actually getting rid of most of it and again seems to be breathing easier in the less oppressive room. A few bits have gone to storage but not as much as I suspected which again is heartening. We had a frank discussion about how I was sorry it had come to getting rid of his stuff, he said I wasn't really and I said I was sorry for him but not sorry about the stuff which he appreciated.

Once the house is sorted I've got the issue of him sorting 'his' areas - the loft and garage and then storage. This is going to be harder. Fil complained about storage nearly overflowing, but mil and I have agreed that the house, loft and garage need to be the first step. However it seems his family are all very similar, this has spurred mil to have a clear out and it seems they all have this tendency, just not at dhs level.

The biggest battle is to come though, making sure he doesn't refill the house.

[Timeforabiscuit]

Hope you're doing OK eat, if you have tonnes of DVDs music magpie is brilliant for DVDs and CDs - you can get rid of them in one hit and a courier picks them up.

Otherwise I'm wishing you and your dh every strength, forming a plan for what the room will look like as whatamidoing suggested sounds like a fantastic idea.

[riskit4abiskit]

I have no experience of hoarding but am eager to help you OP as it sounds so wearing and soul destroying.

So my advice is can you use gumtree and local Facebook pages to help with your selling?
This way most items could be collected and save time and money boxing and posting.

also do you have local services like book recycling centres for books, magazines, records etc? Any charity shops you can say are desperate for stock? Any relatives with a health condition that you can be raising funds for? (Sorry if my advice is useless but I was just thinking of ideas to make the clear out seem positive to your dh).

With regards to old storage that is knackered like cupboards, I dont know if you know but the council will do 3? Bulk rubbish collections for free.

[fillie]

I had missed the most recent posts, sounds like you are making good progress, keep that train on track! There's always hope with hoarders.

[fillie]

You threatened to kick him out, and he won't go.
You need to be firm but kind. Get legal advice, can he really insist on staying if you want him out? Did you really mean it or was it an empty threat?
Be the prize for him clearing his mess up. Reward him for success not continuation of destructive behaviours.
Maybe move out temporarily with your children (stay with a relative/friend?) or if this isn't a serious option could you separate out rooms of the house for him and his stuff, and remove yourself and your children to part of the house that is clear of his junk. Live separate lives within your home. Give him a time limit ( a month) if he hasn't got it sorted and got help (therapy) then really kick him out (with that legal advice you got earlier to back you up). If he does make an improvement then bring some boundaries down, rejoice!

That's what I think I'd do, only you know your own limits.

[whyamiwastingtimeonhere]

Eatriskier I know I'm coming to this a bit late, but anyway...

I'm not your husband (honest) - but I could well have been a few years ago.

Fortunately my fantastic wife was dogged, determined and infinitely patient and we got to a solution where I've got it under control - which is impressive given that I come from a long line of clutter obsessives - I can't think of any house of any of my blood relatives that wasn't full of clutter.

90% of the comments on this thread are completely useless, but fortunately you seem to have the insight to recognise that it is a mental condition that you are dealing with and it's certainly a condition that can be addressed.

I could go on all night about this, but I'll just cut straight to our plan, which fortunately seems to be broadly similar to what you're doing, but there are a couple of points to note.

(actually I should probably say it was my wife's plan, tbh)

It's important to not try to battle on too many fronts at once.

Firstly, pick one room - the living room is the obvious candidate.

Sit down with your DH and agree on a design for the living room. This includes -

• What furniture is in there and how it is arranged
  
• What shelving etc there is and what is stored on them
  
• What books/DVDs (e.g. max 20 books, max 10 DVDs + 20 for kids)
  
• What pictures on the walls
  
• Decoration etc
  
• Agreement on a 'system' for kids toys etc
  

Basically, as much detail as possible about exactly how the living room is supposed to be and how it is supposed to function.

Then get your DH to document the design using whatever technique he wants (e.g. as a drawing, a written document, a list - whatever).

The important bit is to get him to 'own' the design.

Then agree with him a realistic timescale to implement the design. It then becomes his project - something new to concentrate on/control/obsess about.

The subtle difference here is that, instead of you saying "I want you to get rid of this, get rid of that..." you're saying "here's a clear objective of a room that I'd like you to create for us". It's a creative process, not a destructive one.

Diverting obsessive behaviour towards creating a positive outcome is more likely to succeed than battling, canute-like, against negative behaviour.

If you succeed with the living room, then you move on to the hall - you said you've already got the kitchen under control so then you've got the ground floor ready to receive visitors. And then on up the stairs...

Of course, it might not work - your DH's obsessiveness might be different to mine - it's a complex spectrum, not black and white.

But it worked for me - I'm not completely fixed yet, but i'm getting there, bit by bit. I now obsess about keeping the living room just as it's supposed to be (along with lots of other things).

The key thing is that you've got to get your DH's head in the right place. For each category of stuff you've got to implement a new rational thought process (I call these 'systems') which supercedes the default system of "keep everything". Otherwise, when you take away the stuff, you just leave a big mental hole that needs to be filled - ideally with replacement systems that make the stuff unnecessary. I worry slightly that your only focus is on making the stuff go away, and not on making it unnecessary.

Anyway - If your DH doesn't beat you, doesn't abuse the DCs, isn't an alcoholic or drug addict, isn't a gambler, doesn't cheat on you with other women (or men) then I would tactfully suggest that he's worth persevering with until you've at least tried some things that might actually work.

[Fairenuff]

How's it going OP? Is he sticking to his '30 minutes a night' agreement? Not long now until he has his week off and you can reclaim your living room. Fingers crossed for you.

[nuzzlepad]

Hope your efforts won't be wasted op. I can manage space and keep things clean aside from this issue occasionally rearing its ugly head in(remember, don't let them stay the night or expect relapse! ) so hope your DH comes around too.

[cloutiedumpling]

Eat - I think what you are doing is great. Good luck with it all.

[nuzzlepad]

Eat I am so glad your DH is happier in the spacey rooms. It must assure you you are doing the right thing and make things easier for you.

I think it could be explained in several ways, but I would say in his 30s he knows intellectually he doesn't need to hoard - he knows some things are okay to be forgotten and thrown out. He must have experienced losing some stuffs whether he wanted or not and found himself not missing them terribly. But emotionally, if he has to throw them out, then he wants some ritual ( categorizing, leaving lists, taking pictures ) so he can remember them. And the thought of ritual is stressful if you have that much stuffs and know deep down they aren't practical. In short, he isn't keen because he envisions himself going through the throwing out rituals - not the cleaned out results itself.

I often found it's not the stuffs, sometimes it's the way I put stuffs down and the way they occupy the space, the certain angles they are put down and the way they form a pile that make them endearing to me. Once I sleep several nights through they are like old friends.

[Eatriskier]

cloutie I do help him with listing too, but I needed him to take his own action. Come posting time though I'll be the person doing the running, as usual!

[cloutiedumpling]

Sorry, I didn't mean to nag about helping him to list items for ebay and packing and posting them. I know I have some hoarding tendencies (although nothing like as bad) and although I will select some things to go out eg. to the charity shop, or to e bay, I will procrastinate and not actually get rid of them for quite a while, even although I have said that I no longer want them. It would help me a lot if someone got rid of the stuff once I had decided I no longer wanted it and I thought it might help your DH too.

[Eatriskier]

nuzzle I think DH has some similar traits to you. It was very weird, he accepted but didn't seem to keen on the idea of me blitzing that bathroom and kitchen but then when he walked in he sort of breathed a massive sigh of relief and is so much happier already in those rooms. Though that could be that even he's felt oppressed in them and having someone else deal with it helped (and probably because it wasn't just his stuff or important stuff at least, I threw some of my unnecessary stuff out for good measure).

[mathanxiety]

And I think someone who has a massive 'collection' of books or CDs isn't necessarily interested in reading them or listening to all that music, so a kindle or ipod might be missing the point, unless the hoarder could address the real potential of the items (accept their true nature) and not be fixated on the function the items perform for him.

The category of things that is collected is immaterial. Some hoarders are omnivores (so to speak) and some are very particular -- neither one is inferior or superior to the other, rarefied or common. The hoarder hoards to feed an emotional need so it's really all the same what is hoarded.

Just musing here, sorry to talk to myself

[nuzzlepad]

I'm just glad there is some progress OP. I have hoarding tendency in me and it took lots of nipping from my parents when I was growing up. I actually enjoy cleaning stuffs up - but I have to mind trick myself into thinking they are not 'my stuffs' if it's mine.

Keep his new habit ingrained and don't be afraid to march in and throw things away. The key in my case is not letting myself bring stuffs in the first place, or getting rid of them in few hours once they are in -definitely before sleep. Once they stay the night they strangely become my stuffs.

I don't know if it's just me, but hoarding issues can also be expressed through hoarding digital files. Don't let him download movies or stuffs, if he doesn't already. Good luck.

[mathanxiety]

I think you are right Cozie. The importance attached to objects themselves can't be discounted. So someone most likely wouldn't be satisfied with a 1000 item 'collection' of Aegean holiday spots or dramatic sunsets or objects related to tea -- scenery isn't tangible, and a hoarder who hasn't dealt with his fundamental issues might start seeing old cups and saucers every time he went out.

[GarlicAprilShowers]

That was at 6pm today ... - and you were asking what he's achieved by 7:30

Think I'd better log off Mumsnet for a while, this isn't doing my stress levels any good god knows how OP's feeling!

[cozietoesie]

I've been musing about something math said about using Pinterest et al. My own experience is that pictures do work - but only where someone has actually owned and held something so that the picture recalls the physical feel/smell of it. I don't think it would work with things that have never been owned because looking at a picture of those only stimulates a desire to acquire something - in order to feel it etc.

Useful then - perhaps - in getting rid of things but not in dealing with root problems or future acquisition patterns?

I don't know for sure. That's a pretty unformed thought above and I'll need to ruminate further.

[cozietoesie]

I don't think you're nagging Fair but, equally, I think you have to recognize the strain that the OP is under and let her have some breathing spaces. She's come a long way on this one and will have to go further yet.

[Eatriskier]

You asked if he'd put things on ebay already. Yes he has, I've already stated it.

As of today, no he hasn't but then he's literally walked through the door and I thought it may be nice to allow him dinner first. Call me a walk over.

[Fairenuff]

Ah x posts. That's good, OP, it sounds like he is getting started on the activity rather than just talking about it.

[Fairenuff]

I'm not nagging Garlic I am asking what he has actually done. I know that suggesting she does it for him and packs and posts for him is meant to be helpful but he has to show that he is doing something off his own back.

All I have done is ask what has he done since OP posted this

he needs to be showing he's at least doing something 'positive' (I've currently got a 30 minute a night agreement out of him, where he will list our large pile of to sell stuff on ebay)

That was at 6pm today, so I am asking OP if he actually put some things for sale on ebay today. As she says, 'he needs to be showing he's doing something', all I'm asking is 'did he do it?'

Because addicts will agree to do things but don't actually do them.

OP hasn't answered me but that doesn't make me a nag, it makes OP an avoider. Unless, of course, she misunderstood what I was asking, which is entirely possible.