Hoarding DH - At the end of my tether (Long)

[Eatriskier]

Before I launch into the bad stuff, I should say that DH is a generally a lovely and very honest man. He doesn't abuse me in any way, he would barely say boo to a goose and he is a wonderful father to our two young DC. But he has a hoarding issue.

Now, I have always known he has had a tendency towards this. Its always been an problem between us. When we bought our first home together he promised he wouldn't fill it with crap especially as its a small home and I was due our first DC. He agreed to an area he could fill and that it was all he had and he wouldn't encroach anywhere else - he promised to scale down and not buy more.

Unsurprisingly he has massively stuffed this, a large part of our living room, the garage, the loft and half our bedroom with crap. Crap is harsh, some of it is useful but for the main its not useful nor necessary. In massive rows he's promised to get rid but he just boxes stuff up, moves it to a storage locker (which is now pretty much full) and then slowly fills it all back up or buys a new piece of furniture/storage to absorb the stuff.

I can't move all the items of storage and junk to clean properly, my house is becoming filthy. I am ashamed of my own home, I won't invite anyone in. I cannot live like this anymore. I've told DH loads that I am at the point where the kids and I are going to have to leave. He still won't do anything.

He promised me that in a couple of weeks, as he has some time off work, he would sort it. We had a discussion where he promised not to buy more storage (he has hoard of empty storage boxes!!!!) and he would actually get rid, not just move. Then today a load of storage arrived. He said it was to move some of the stuff out.

I'm afraid I lost it and told him to take his stuff and GTFO, his young family aren't going to live like this anymore. His response? He's not leaving his house. Not that he didn't want his family apart, not that he didn't want our marriage to end, but that he wouldn't leave his house and things (which he still didn't say when I called him out on it).

So here I am, whilst he is driving off to storage squeezing more crap into it despite promising yet again he wasn't going to do that and knowing he won't fully empty the furniture so I can't get rid of it and he will refill it with crap again, knowing that the crap means more to him than his wife and kids.

What on earth do I do now? I don't really want to leave and take the kids, but I can't have them living like this, learning this or growing up mortified by their parents and home.

I don't think you can help him see that, Eat. His 'stuff' is making him feel rich and fulfilled in a way that you and the kids clearly aren't. I don't believe there's a solution for that. Certainly not a short term one.

Chucking the stuff out/having the house cleared out is like pouring an alcoholics booze down the sink. It will only anger him and he will just get more stuff.
If you try and go through stuff with him he will find reasons excuses as to why every scrap is useful/sentimental/needs to be kept. He will become secretive in what he acquires.
This is a mental health problem like addiction or OCD. He needs to want to change and get proper professional help. If you try and tackle this yourselves, you will only get more frustrated/resentful with each other and getting nowhere.

Could you try using the argument he uses for putting the childrens stuff in the loft against him and his stuff? You, DH, haven't used this, watched this, worn this, etc., so it has to go. Or make him choose between certain items - half of "x" has to go, you choose which half. and by go it goes in the bin or to the charity shop not into storage or the loft.

It's hard you have a long, hard, fight on your hands and I do feel for you, but you do need to tackle it and do something for your own sanity and that of your children, you need to put you and them first.

Can you ask him why he felt he had to keep things as a child?

emotion tbh I think it boils down to the fact he's always been a bit of a loner. Which from what I can tell was more of a choice thing, from what he says he wasn't bullied or excluded on purpose. He was socially awkward so he got things to fulfil him. But I've known him for a lot longer than I've been with him and he's not that social awkward person without friends anymore, he's even managed to put up with me for years and had kids. Seems the rot may have set in then and isn't going to be broken easily. Maybe he thinks the things won't leave him but the rest of us may.

He's a selfish twat if he thinks of removing the kids toy kitchen as an excuse for cluttering up the house

I don't even know him and I feel

Oh gosh this must be an awful situation for you to be in. If you could get him to visit a GP that would be a start but if he won't agree to this I think that, for your own sanity, you should leave him.

He agreed to an area he could fill and that it was all he had and he wouldn't encroach anywhere else

he's promised to get rid but he just boxes stuff up, moves it to a storage locker (which is now pretty much full) and then slowly fills it all back up

I've told DH loads that I am at the point where the kids and I are going to have to leave. He still won't do anything

You can see just from what you've posted here that he isn't going to change. Mainly because he doesn't want to change. You can't force him to seek treatment OP, all you can do is decide how much you are prepared to put up with.

Personally I would chuck out all his stuff (aside from that in the original agreed area). If he gets angry about it, well tough, he doesn't care when you get angry so he can hardly expect you to show concern for him. And if he replaced it, I'd chuck that too.

Eatriskier would you consider your house to be a fire risk. If there was a fire would you all manage to get out quickly and safely? If not and it really is a danger, call the local fire brigade and ask them to come and visit when your DH is there and do a risk assessment. It might just be the shock he needs. They will gladly do it. Don't put stuff into storage because it will never come out again and all it's doing is costing you money. The thing with your Dh is that you could clear everything and he will just fill it again.

I have struggled (along with my exH) to help my ex's hoarding father. It is a horrendous condition to have and from what I have seen, the anguish it causes the hoarder's family does nothing to help persuade them to change. If anything it made my FIL more anxious and hoard more.

From the reading we did, it is a very very difficult condition to treat, even with comprehensive therapy. It's a very deeply ingrained need. My FIL is 70 and has caused his current partner the most enormous amount of grief over the years. She puts up with it, I don't know why, but it's a terrible relationship to witness because he makes her life a misery and seems to be incapable of doing anything about it. Even when he tries, he fails.

I don't really know what to suggest OP other than perhaps really reading up on the subject and contacting a group who may be able to help you approach him about it in the right way. But as other posters have said, I think you yourself know he isn't going to change. Wishing you strength.

How much is he currently spending on storage?

Thankfully no, the house isn't a fire risk in the sense of not being able to get out easily. I've always blown a gasket before its gotten near that and there are clear areas. Its easy to police as the house is so small so too many additions and you suddenly can't access a room (the loo most often which thankfully inconveniences him too). However we always live in a state where its capable of tipping over and if there was a fire I imagine we have more than enough kindling to take down the street.

I know, he won't change. I either accept this and stop burying my head in the sand and become the nagging wife/blowing gasket wife or I go. He drove about 10 boxes to storage and has just filled 6 saying they're going to charity. They may well be as he conveniently didn't mention where the first lot were going but huffed when I made it clear I knew. At least 5 he kept were magazines... My plan is to get rid of the large and definitely (I can see now) broken furniture, and move something of the kids in its place. He backs down a lot more when its the kids stuff.

Its odd, I don't in any way hanker after a minimalist house. I quite like having shelves with things like pictures on them and I can even cope with lots of toys. Its just the sheer amount here takes us from lived in family home to storage locker with pathways.

faire nothing thankfully. His parents still cover that as FIL uses it too. However he won't even enter the conversation of what happens when FIL doesn't need it or retires and can't pay (because he has been told in no uncertain terms that our household will not cover it at least whilst finances are as they are and that crap aint coming back here).

We recently had that discussion about 'if we won the lottery'. He said a bigger house, I said no way - you would do what you did here and I wasn't having that.

Eat

How old is he? Mid thirties?

cozie yes, he is. I'm guessing its downhill from here unless he realises himself...

My dear do u not know what a skip is, hehe, i used to wait til my ex was in work, get the skip in and feck it all in the bin,,,oh deary me!!!

Mid thirties and your family already lives in 'a state where its capable of tipping over and if there was a fire I imagine we have more than enough kindling to take down the street.' Plus he's discovered 'off site' storage - which not all of them do.

It's difficult to fully assess the position from what you say - because you could be someone who thinks that a few clothes lying on a chair is excessive (forgive me for that but I haven't been in your house) but it sounds as if he's a serious hoarder with another 20 or 30 years to get really into it.

What concerns me also is the fact that he won't talk about it in any serious way. Imagine if - instead of the 'stuff' - he had another woman that was occupying his time and wouldn't talk about it. Or a heavy gambling or substance abuse problem - because that's effectively what you're dealing with.

What sort of life are you going to be allowing your young children if you continue to exist like this and getting worse?

Blimey, he's still young.

Last time we visited my in laws', MIL gave DH a carrier bag of crap for him to throw away behind FIL's back. Unbeknownst to them all I'd stolen a Yankee Candle jar that MIL had tried to throw out numerous times (but somehow kept returning to the dining room) to throw away too.

See, it's funny when you look at it like that, but it's not bloody funny really.

Ha oh if only I was the type to get angry over a few clothes - the reality is disarray is my domain, especially random discarded clothes. In some ways we're complimentary opposites. He is tidy but will fill a surface with stuff and I am generally disorganised but when I tidy I put stuff away! I can actually handle mess, because mess is something that's just out of place and can be fixed. What I can't handle is no surface space, not even enough to blitz the house and put everything in its spot. If I've moved it out for long enough a few minutes the space has been misappropriated. And of course the less I tidy the less stuff lives in our house as he doesn't feel the need to fill it.

I think you're right, he got years to get into it yet, and that's quite terrifying. I have found his refusal to deal with it concerning too, for the same reasons. I'm beginning to see resonance between him and my alcoholic ex which I never thought I'd see.

Out of interest, how much time does he actually spend with you and the children as opposed to 'sorting' his stuff ? ('Sorting' is just code for stroking it and re-acquainting with it of course - they always acquire much much more than they dispose of.)

cozie actually his time after work is very us focused, except he stays up a lot later than me usually. Sometimes I come down to the loo and he's cataloguing yes seriously his stuff. At the weekend its much the same. I actually think I'd be more accepting of it if he did lovingly stroke it in a 'I miss being able to watch you/read you/etc but the kids take up to much time' way but he doesn't. Its just there in my way and logged in the database and that's it. On the surface he is fantastic, and other than this rather major thing I can't really fault him.

That sounds awfully like an addict who can function with people for a set period of time as long as he gets his 'me time' later on with his drug of choice. (The consistently staying up later by himself in order to sort his stuff.)

I'm not optimistic about this situation for you and the DCs, Eat. I would be tempted to lay down an ultimatum on the stuff - or an ultimatum on having a serious talk about things. Not so much for him (because my gut feeling is that it will do no good) but to enable you to see him more clearly when he reacts to it.

By the way, I've experienced 'cataloguing' before. My experience is that it's usually a spurious way of seeming (to oneself) to be in control and value the possessions but that it only covers a set segment or two of the acquisitions. So - 'I'm organized on the XXXXX' translates to 'I'm organized on everything so don't have a problem.)

Gosh OP I really do feel for you. My oldest friend is a hoarder, and so is my mil's dh. Both of them are charming, articulate, funny, warm people I like very much indeed. I couldn't live with either of them though.

Hoarding is known as one of the toughest compulsions to combat. I'm really sorry because I can tell you love your husband...but I do honestly believe that living with him means living with the stuff. It will not change and with time, will become more. I think it very unlikely that you will ever reclaim your home whilst living with him.

If you really can't bear it (and I couldn't) would you consider living apart?

He is ill really and I think if you and the kids left, the trauma would make him even more ill. The first thing is for him to accept that this is a problem/illness. The second thing is for him to want to get help. Only then can any sort of progress be made. Due to the nature of hoarding, any attempts to chuck out stuff will be met with anger/upset and ultimately he will replace the stuff. I don't know what sort of professional helps with hoarding but he certainly needs to see such a person.

My dh is a hoarder, so my heart goes out to you.

I am fortunate in that his crap is now largely contained in one part of the house, but he is very OCD about things being moved around, eg he works away and he can come back after a week away and prowl the house for an hour or so looking for stuff that has moved and accuses me of "moving" stuff. Then on the other hand will accuse me of leaving something out "for weeks"- it's bloody hard work.

In regard to his crap- his stuff is primarily paperwork- he is terrified of throwing an important bit of paperwork and YY to the empty storage- he has three empty shelving units and dozens and dozens of empty magazine holders ready to file everything, but it is all in piles all over his office.

MIL is also a hoarder and very secretive.

He does recognise the problem. Every now and again i will free up a day and try to do something, but he has to agonise over every piece of paper (eg a boarding pass from at least 8 years ago that was so faded you couldn't even read the details) - it is really slow going.