Hoarding DH - At the end of my tether (Long)

[Eatriskier]

Before I launch into the bad stuff, I should say that DH is a generally a lovely and very honest man. He doesn't abuse me in any way, he would barely say boo to a goose and he is a wonderful father to our two young DC. But he has a hoarding issue.

Now, I have always known he has had a tendency towards this. Its always been an problem between us. When we bought our first home together he promised he wouldn't fill it with crap especially as its a small home and I was due our first DC. He agreed to an area he could fill and that it was all he had and he wouldn't encroach anywhere else - he promised to scale down and not buy more.

Unsurprisingly he has massively stuffed this, a large part of our living room, the garage, the loft and half our bedroom with crap. Crap is harsh, some of it is useful but for the main its not useful nor necessary. In massive rows he's promised to get rid but he just boxes stuff up, moves it to a storage locker (which is now pretty much full) and then slowly fills it all back up or buys a new piece of furniture/storage to absorb the stuff.

I can't move all the items of storage and junk to clean properly, my house is becoming filthy. I am ashamed of my own home, I won't invite anyone in. I cannot live like this anymore. I've told DH loads that I am at the point where the kids and I are going to have to leave. He still won't do anything.

He promised me that in a couple of weeks, as he has some time off work, he would sort it. We had a discussion where he promised not to buy more storage (he has hoard of empty storage boxes!!!!) and he would actually get rid, not just move. Then today a load of storage arrived. He said it was to move some of the stuff out.

I'm afraid I lost it and told him to take his stuff and GTFO, his young family aren't going to live like this anymore. His response? He's not leaving his house. Not that he didn't want his family apart, not that he didn't want our marriage to end, but that he wouldn't leave his house and things (which he still didn't say when I called him out on it).

So here I am, whilst he is driving off to storage squeezing more crap into it despite promising yet again he wasn't going to do that and knowing he won't fully empty the furniture so I can't get rid of it and he will refill it with crap again, knowing that the crap means more to him than his wife and kids.

What on earth do I do now? I don't really want to leave and take the kids, but I can't have them living like this, learning this or growing up mortified by their parents and home.

[LoisPuddingLane]

I don't hoard at all - the very opposite. But my books are precious! I've carted them with me across Europe.

[tznett]

Help For Hoarders

[TheSilveryPussycat]

Lois but is it the books or the text inside that is important to you? I too have lots of books, but don't add to them much , and am quite good at tossing them now so much is available on-line, or buying 2nd hand off Amazon or charity shops, and passing them on to charity shops when read.

I had a friend for whom the smell of books was the thing. Not for me! I prefer a book to a Kindle (I think) - easier to flip back a page or two, open at random, or at where I left off (I never need a book mark). And don't need charging. My ideal would be a loadable Kindle with thin electronic pages, kind of like a loadable book.

I love a new storage box! But not too many. And new stationery. We all have our different preciouses.

OP, was your DH brought up in a large house?

I am talking round the subject, but I do think my ramblings are relevant, especially now it seems to be a storage issue, rather than the actual stuff.

[TheSilveryPussycat]

I posted without reading your most recent post Lois - interesting that I used the word Precious. I was thinking of Gollum, but kindly

[LoisPuddingLane]

I like the whole book experience. Not a kindle convert, yet.

[cozietoesie]

I don't think it's a storage issue. My instinct tells me that the storage and the stuff are all linked together.

Hoarding is so horribly complex though and it's not possible to analyse someone from a dozen posts on a thread - if at all.

[Quangle]

No books are not wonderful things when they get in the way of life.

Eat I feel for you. I watched those hoarder programmes with a tiny bit of understanding because I had hoarding grandparents although not at the levels portrayed on the programme. But the sort of people for whom stuff came before people. And what struck me most about those programmes was how much it was like alcoholism - as you have already indicated. However much the family members begged, explained, ranted, raved, the hoarder just carried on regardless. They weren't disagreeing or arguing or ignoring - they just had absolutely no sense of how this was for anyone else because no one else really existed - only them and their stuff. And so the family members begging and pleading was just so much white noise.

I tend to fall into the trap of thinking the more I articulate and explain my issue, the more people will understand and alter their behaviour. That programme showed me that my approach is pointless in some situations. And I concluded that the families of hoarders had lost sight of the fact that there was absolutely nothing they could do - and that the only option was to walk away. As you did with your ex. I hope it doesn't come to that for you now because of the DCs - but if you find DH's behaviour won't change, the DCs will need you to do something anyway to protect them from this way of living.

It's really tough OP. Hope you get a resolution.

[TheSilveryPussycat]

Actually, I don't have a Kindle myself. But I have the software on the PC, and read and re-read lots of classics for free. I did Cranford at school, I was too young to appreciate how funny it was till I re-read it earlier this year.

Eat your DH sounds nice apart from the hoarding. I do hope you can both get this sorted.

[GarlicAprilShowers]

I was thinking of Gollum, but kindly

I actually like pale, uncluttered spaces. I've just realised this has developed since I became poor. There's a clear psychological logic to it, but obviously a gently rusting stash of light fittings isn't going to help me in a broke month - the opposite, in fact, since I bought all this stuff with money I could ill afford.

Eatriskier, how does DH feel about today's clear-out?

[TheSilveryPussycat]

But cozie, Eat herself suggested that storage (rather than stuff) was the issue from talking to her DP.

Of course, it's probably more complicated than that. But I do feel Eat has more to go on now.

[Eatriskier]

I suspect cozie is right. But it gives me another angle to tackle this from.

Oddly he was OK about the clear out until I suggested the cupboards had to go. They really do, they're almost unusable. But I think he hoped that meant new cupboards.

[mathanxiety]

Storage = potential for more collecting and storing.
Storage = something to collect in and of itself.

It couldn't be unrelated. This man has a database of all his stuff after all. He seems to feel a responsibility for the stuff.

Hoarders can be as cunning as any other addicts, Eatriskier. As long as he has somewhere at home to put stuff that he manages to hide from you temporarily in his parents' storage place or elsewhere, there is the possibility of sneaking it back.

I suspect he is bending a little just to get you off his back for the time being.

[GarlicAprilShowers]

Hmm ... I'm sure you're right about the cupboards. How good is he at self-insight? Will he be prepared to figure out what his 'things' mean for him, and/or seek therapy to help diffuse that?

I'm guessing he feels a nameless fear about losing his stuff. Being able to see it, then figure it out, would be a helpful start I should think.

[TheSilveryPussycat]

Any important birthdays or other celebrations you could throw a party at your house for, say in 3 or 4 months?

[GarlicAprilShowers]

This was interesting:

Popular culture presents us with many images of what hoarding “looks like,” but the media’s versions are usually “furthest-case” scenarios and misrepresent what most folks actually deal with.

In 2013, The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), published by the American Psychiatric Association, states that Hoarding Disorder is present when the following criteria are met:

1. Persistent difficulty discarding or parting with possessions, regardless of their actual value. (Difficulty discarding)
   
2. This difficulty is due to a perceived need to save the items and distress associated with discarding them. (Strong urges to save things)
   
3. The symptoms result in the accumulation of possessions that congest and clutter active living areas and substantially compromise their intended use. (Excessive clutter)
   
4. The hoarding causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. (Distress or impaired functioning, reduced quality of life.)
   

Regardless of how we feel about the language, the BIT Workshop is designed to address all four criteria of Hoarding Disorder. Label or no label, BIT can be helpful for people who experience this challenge set.
The DSM-5 also lists two characteristics that may or may not be present:

1. Excessive acquiring
   
2. Poor insight
   

So long as it’s done without judgment, discussing these criteria can allow for a more objective appraisal of the situation. It may also help people look at their situation in a less hopeless and more empowering way, knowing that there is help, and that they’re not alone. Appeal to
people’s strengths, since these are the qualities that will make their personal decluttering goals attainable.

Useful links, thanks, math.

[cozietoesie]

In addition to the media's choices of scenarios, I also don't believe half of the numerous programmes on the topic in terms of what goes on with the subjects. Apart from knowing first hand what documentary teams are often like (ie they're there to make sellable programmes and not necessarily to help the people they're filming) it's often apparent that there has been some manipulation of the subjects to provoke extreme reactions in the course of the filming.

Nonetheless, it's a very serious condition and I (and many of the posters above) can speak of real life instances from first hand experience. I'm not optimistic about the OP's chances on this one but I wish her every success in attempting to tackle it for the sake of her kids.

[Eatriskier]

I'm not overly optimistic too cozie. I'm not being unrealistic that he has a real problem that he has to tackle, and the likelihood is that this will just happen again. This is honestly it, he has to clear it and he has to keep it clear, and he has to tackle the issues he has around that if he wants to keep us. I suspect he will get rid of it to appease me, but not tackle it and it'll slowly creep back in and then that'll be it.

London - actually it is the first time I've seriously posted about him. I may have made some flyaway comments, but as part of my head burying I've never taken it as seriously as I am now.

We talked again this morning calmly. He's started listing things on ebay - his things. He has a week off in a couple of weeks and he's agreed that the cupboards and his stuff will be gone from the living room, and the room rearranged/decorated (there are so many cupboards they were painted around ). I am going to tackle the bathroom and kitchen as they're 'my domain' and he's accepted that anything that hasn't been used for x amount of time will go. I've asked him to see his GP but I can't force him into that, but he has been warned that I won't let any anxiety he's suffering impact the kids as sorry as I feel for him. So I'll see where we are in 3 weeks. I'll be able to assess then how genuine he is.

[GarlicAprilShowers]

Cautiously hopeful, then? I'm gently wishing success to you both, and not underestimating how important it is to each of you. I found all the links you've been given really helpful, especially math's handbook. Perhaps it's too soon for DH to read them (diversion opportunity - do I know about those!!) but, once he's experienced the loveliness of a little more space for living & interacting as a family, perhaps he'd find them encouraging.

[cozietoesie]

Talking about diversion opportunities, Eat - I know this isn't what Garlic meant but is there anything, any hobby or potential hobby/activity that your DH could be encouraged subtly towards? (Perhaps together with you and/or the DCs?) The collecting and cataloguing must have taken so much of his spare time that if he progresses well, you don't need him sitting around twiddling his thumbs and just 'thinking' about his boxes. A small thought.

[MistressDeeCee]

Good plan OP. Especially like that you've asked him to see his GP, and let him know outright that you aren't going to let any anxiety issues he may suffer impact on your DCs. Fingers crossed things will change - and that he will see his GP.

Hoarders need to know they cannot just 'externalise' and impose their addiction on others. He isn't living in his sole, personal space

Good luck

[Eatriskier]

garlic I'm not even sure I'd go that far. All I know is that I'm taking control and this will become a home for my kids. Whether DH can fit with that is a different matter. If he is looking like he's genuine or asks for some help I'll give him the links and handbooks here, but I remember suffering depression myself and know that someone giving me links on depression wouldn't help me unless I was ready to receive them.

cozie he has recently taken up jogging, and I've been trying to encourage him to do more! Or to start watching movies again at the cinema which he loves and has no issue doing alone. That was my thought too, maybe get him hooked on something else but something a bit more healthy shall we say.

mistress I only hope he does see the GP. But I'm more honestly expecting the house to be cleared rather than him deal with it.

[oldgrandmama]

What LondonForTheWeekend said upthread:
He will have that stuff till the day he dies when some poor sap will shovel it into a skip. Hoarders choose to live in squalor, he is recalcitrant and THIS IS IT. This is your life, and your childrens' lives until you leave him. It won't get better... Until you take control back of your own life and leave.
He won't leave, don't bother fighting him on it, just do it yourself.

Sorry, but you won't change him. This is what he is. My father was a hoarder and it was especially foul because he was an antique dealer. Our house (old five storey place, plus attic, cellar, back garden) was CRAMMED with 'stock'. All the flights of stairs had just a few square inches in the middle of each tread, with 'stuff' stacked each side. Bedrooms for us three kids had just a narrow pathway between boxes to our beds. I spent years with a huge astronomy telescope set up in my attic room (mind you, was quite interesting to examine hill on the other side of the valley).

When he died, in the 1990s, boxes were found of stuff he'd bought in auction in the early 1950s and had never opened! The people who subsequently bought the house found more stuff buried in the back garden!

My poor mother divorced him, in her sixties - she'd had enough. And guess what -my first marriage (straight from school pretty well, just go get away, oh dear) was with a hoarder. In his case, it was his 'collections' (can't specify, he's still alive). But he collected pretty expensive items, and happily used my salary along with his own to indulge in his 'collecting'. Someone once, lightheartedly, asked him if he'd ever sell any of this stuff and he said absolutely not. But what, his friend said, if money was need for, say, his dear wife (me!) needed a kidney machine (these were days in the 1960s when such things were rare and not always available on NHS). He went pale and said 'NO way!'

Says it all, really. I saw sense and got away after four years of marriage. He went on to marry again and made his poor wife's life a misery, living in a cottage which grew to resemble my father's place, junk everywhere. She died early.

Sorry to ramble on. I guess I'm trying to say that he won't change but you can. Save yourself and your children. He's beyond hope, let him live with his 'stuff' - it means more to him than you and the children. Sorry.

[joydevivre]

I was married to a hoarder. The relationship followed the same lines as the house. It really was suffocating

Things are better now we are nearly divorced.

He's got to want to see the problem and want to change. Otherwise you are polishing a turd.

With us, the hoarding was a springboard to a load of other problems

[hellsbellsmelons]

Well I'm glad you have a plan.
Let's hope it all goes well.
Will look forward to an update in a few weeks and some happy news about how lovely and 'almost' clutter free your lovely family home is!