Having the talk

[lavenderhoney]

I'm planning to tell my dh its all over and I want a divorce. He isn't going to be very happy about it. I've asked in the past and he has stormed off, refused and told me I'm crazy. He has no problem discussing our problems with or infront of dc age 7 and 4:( he is not a nice man and he is going to be very nasty indeed, I think.

I left almost 3 months ago ( we did live overseas, he is still there and will be for the future , and he is not from the UK) and now is the time. I should have done it before but for various reasons the solicitor said to wait ( financial). I have to talk to her this week and get things moving but I obviously have to tell dh what's coming.

I need some advice on how to handle it, what to say, and what to do with his reactions. And what to expect. I'm bricking it, frankly:(

The money he saves on the children's airfares and yours would offset the cost of accommodation for him here.

How will you ensure that you are not forced into handing over the passports - possibly by officials?

If he comes to the UK he will have no 'distractions' so will focus his time on the children.

Is he skypeing them?

Oh Lavender I can see why this really feels like a dilemma in the true sense of the term and why you are at a loss as to what to do. For me the crucial thing to focus on is that he doesn't want to look after the children on his own. Now this is key to him accepting that you two are over. He has to learn that if he wants any relationship with his DC, he has to look after them on his own, whether that be in the UK or in Europe with his parents. And you may want him to have a relationship with the DC, for their sake, and it is right that you want that, but you cannot make him want that. He has to want it enough to find a way to be with his DC without you, but on terms that you agree with obviously. If he decides he can't do that, you can't make him into a good dad.

So no staying with you - and try suggesting to him what TweedleDi says - if he can afford to pay for them to fly to his parents' country, can he not use that money to pay for a B&B here? If you do go for the visit to PIL, I would make it short - less than a week - as a trial basis in case he is disastrous, and if he has agreed that you would take them out and then go back to collect them, that's something.

Thanks, its very difficult. If he can't manage then I'll have to take them back with me- I have to work. So far I am thinking i take them early to pils, settle them, he flys in, I fly out a few days later and then come back, work in a week to collect. So he gets a week with the help of his entire family and stays with pils.

There are no officials to take passports - no one will do that. I'm more concerned for the dc who are small, dd isn't yet 5, being without me and him losing interest after a couple of hours and not coping with them up in the night, up early, him pushing off drinking with his home friends, family and leaving the dc with people and children who don't speak English and aren't particularly child friendly. Dh doesn't see this as a problem:(

I think I can bear being miserable myself if the dc are ok. He has never done bedtime even, and I recorded myself doing their stories when I went to my dm funeral. He just thinks they shouldn't need that. It seems a lot of upset for the dc for one week with him.

I have to say I wish the ow was going with him. She would look after the dc:( I know her and she is very kind.

It is difficult. But, I do not think that by facilitating his contact to this extent that you are doing him, or more importantly, the children, a kindness in the long run. And remember, you have legitimate concerns about your children being in the situation proposed. They should come first.

Is it really in the children's interests overall to enable this slack-dad approach? Better to set the bench-mark at a reasonable level now and leave his responsibilities where they belong - for him to face up to.

If he wants what is best for them, like a decent father would, then he has to make effort too. Actually, you could be doing him a huge favour by putting the onus back on him; he then has the chance to develop a positive father-children relationship independent of his failure to be a good husband.

He hasn't skyped for a while now.

The dc do need to be in contact even if its only once a year with their family in Europe. I have little to no family here and they only have me iyswim.

I don't want him to come and collect the dc as it means him having their passports. So this is the better option. I think. I hate flying as well:(

FOG? (fear, obligation, guilt...) xx

Oh, Lavender you give such sensible compassionate advice to others.... (I'm a plurker/ serial name changed btw)

I just want to hug you, you sound so, so torn. But seriously

STOP TRYING TO BE REASONABLE

I make no apologies for shouting, it is so clear if you read from the beginning, your stbxh isn't upset, isn't bothered about the kids, he is toying with you, just trying to destabilise you, because he can. If he gave a fuck he would have stepped up to the plate in the ME. He didn't. He isn't looking for a way to spend time with the kids over the summer, he is looking for ways to fuck with you.

If roles were reversed, would YOU behave as he has? No. Then he hasn't earned the right to have you be reasonable, has he?

Disengage. Totally. Block his phone and email and tell him to contact you through solicitors.

And don't fucking go abroad. If he gave a fuck he'd find a way to come here.

He dosent give a fuck

Neither do his extended family. They haven't contacted the kids have they?

They Don't Care. Stop facilitating the madness.

As Don says, you give such good advise to others, but when it comes to yourself and your ex you seem to cave in and do as he wishes.

If he can afford the airfares for the kids and you to go to France and back, then he can afford B&B in the UK if he came to visit here.

I feel he's feeding you a load of bollocks and you're taking it.

Have the family bothered to contact the kids?
Do they even know you've split or is he still lying to them as well?
Has he bothered contacting the kids?
Why do you think he's being horrid again? To wear you down and get you to do as he says of course.

Come on Lav, you're better than this, tell him to feck off. He's the one committing adultery and not contacting the kids, not you.

Thanks for saying I give good advice:) and I'm blindsided by wanting the dc to see dh and their family in Europe. I suppose I can always take them another time though, or they come here. But they won't. We always have to go to them where mil holds court. ( whole other thread)

I think it probably wouldn't be a good idea for dc to go and stay without me but I am just trying to be reasonable as this scenario that they go every summer to the gp is a likely one for the future.

I don't know how it skews things that he won't have seen them since before ny and they haven't seen their European family at all since last summer. They skyped Christmas.

Dh did Skype yesterday but only had time to talk to dd for a few mins. For some reason he cut off ds and then didn't answer/ call back/ reply to my message ds was very upset. He showed as online though. I can only assume he went out / someone came round/ technical problem his end. But he could have called on normal phone, what's app etc

This casual dismissal of ds makes me worry how he will treat the dc when they are there without me. He has always struggled with two - he can't split his attention properly, iyswim. And plays one off against the other.

I've been trying quite hard to keep my fears and emotion out of it and do the right thing, but now I am concerned what the right thing actually is.

Concentrating on yourself and those two kiddies is the right thing to do.

Sod him. If he's interested in his children then he needs to make the effort to be a father - even a long distant one. He's not really making the effort or being fair to either of them so your answer lies there Lav.

Leave him to it, you cant make him the father he just isn't going to be. Neither him, nor his folks are going out of the way to see or Skype the kids are they? GPs not bothered since Christmas, says it all really.

Hi Lavender,

What you WANT to happen is in your DC best interests however, the options that your STBXH leaves you with are NOT in their best interests. By enabling his behaviour, and that of your ILs, you are allowing them to keep control and exposing your DC to risk (I don't mean physical abuse or serious danger but certainly emotional trauma) that you would never normally even consider.

As others have said, if he can pay for three return flights to Europe he can pay to stay in a B&B here instead. Please don't tell me that you were going to pay for the flights. ILs need to decide what they want to do. You could contact them and tell them that they are welcome to visit DC if it makes you feel more reasonable.

Do IL even know that you have separated? Or could the idea of your accompanying DC be another way to perpetuate the myth?

You've done so well to get this far and give such great advice to others. I hope you can step back and see your situation in the way you'd see it with someone else.

Good luck

All the PPs speak good sense. I wanted to add something else in response to your comment about standing being miserable so long as the DC are happy. Please learn a valuable lesson from our mutual friend: if you neglect to take care of yourself you will not be helping your DC. Please don't put yourself through bad situations in the name of facilitating him.
Given all you say about how inadequate a parent he is, it sounds increasingly like his first contact with them post-split is in the UK for just a few days. If he steps up to the plate there's the possibility of going to Europe in the future. Maybe your solicitor could advise or indeed get some kind of binding agreement.

Fluffy, I hadn't thought of that. I had a couple of bad moments this week where I just couldn't breathe and accompanied by an adrenaline rush which I put down to the old fight or flight thing.

I have emailed that its best for the dc to stay in the UK and he come here and I'm afraid he has reacted rather badly. ( furious) he wants them to see their family there. Not a word about how they might feel, or how he understands and what could he do instead. Just vitriol about how I don't want them to see their family there. Its as though he doesn't actually READ the email:(

He also says he cannot believe I still want to separate ( seriously, WTF) and I must give him a chance.

The thing is, if I loved him and wanted to sleep with him I would. But that's gone now. I feel so exhausted though. And the dc miss him.

I haven't spoken to him real time since giving him the news. He emails me and is either vicious or nice or frosty. I'm very stressed and very very nervous.

Time to direct all correspondence via your solicitor, by the sound of things.

PS the adrenaline thing sounds like a panic attack. Speak to your GP, as they can worsen if not nipped in the bud. Breathing techniques and practical relaxation strategies can help as much, if not more so, than medication.

As he has not had the Dcs by themselves ever, tell him to come and spend a week in a b&b or holiday flat. he can spend all day, every day with them, he can do breakfast, lunch, dinner. He can read them stories and put them to bed.

If all goes well, then you can discuss him taking the children. But he needs to be engaged, he needs to be on time, he needs to be reliable.

Then and only then should you discuss him having them on his own.

I've been away so not posted.

OMG.

I am soooooooooooooo glad you have come to your senses and are not letting the dc go over there.

The reality is that he is a virtual stranger to them in a day to day sense and they are far too young to be away from you with someone who is not genuinely interested in them.

Everything Aussibean says. As soon as he can prove he can look after them both properly by himself and they are happy to stay with him without you then he is more than welcome to take them to stay with his family.

Sadly I wouldn't be surprised if your dc don't want to go with him without you after the initial time, it doesn't even sound like he is capable of being a Disney Dad.

All correspondence through a Solicitor.

Do not entertain him, he is a bully and is using harassment towards you to get what HE wants.

I've tried hard to try not to be emotional as of course sharing childcare in the event of a split, but its difficult not to be when the dc are young and he hasn't seen them for months. I don't think its fair on the dc - perhaps if they were older. They are still so dependant.

Anyway - the bad news is he has gone completely and eerily silent. He tried calling me late last night after I sent the emails but I didn't pick up as it was very late his time and I thought he might have had a drink.

The silence and not responding to my reply reiterating we won't live together again etc is making me very nervous and I don't know why. He said he cannot see what he has done that makes me treat him like this.
I wonder what his next move will be.

He says I can contact his family - I hope I'm not expected to run round after them and do all the calling etc. He did moan I hadn't been sending pics of the dc to them but I said they could check out my fb as that's were I post stuff and they are on my fb. I've tracked them down on my Skype and requested them as contacts.

Hugs Lavender, I really think he is a very upleasant man and he is not interested in the dcs interests, let alone their best interests.

Thank you:)

Just waiting now, for him to contact. I said he should try to be amicable for the dc. He hasn't skyped which is sad as they have lots to tell him. I'm going to ask him to call them.

They are so lovely and its such a shame. I wish I felt there was a way to get back together.

Yes but that is because you are kind and loving, sadly I don't think your H is the same anymore.

Random, I don't think he ever was, tbh:)

Its all a big fat fucking mess, and its all my fault for thinking he was a nice chap right from the start, ignoring all the warning signs and actually he wasn't right for me at all. He might have wanted to be, for a bit, but actually no, and I was stupid enough to take the risk.

Hindsight is a wonderful country, we did things differently there.

Well he isn't suddenly going to become that person. I think you will move on better and faster if you accept that he doesn't love and care for the dc. He will be happy to pop up in their lives only as and when it suits him.

I would let the relationship dwindle in as much as make them available for skype etc. if he asks and it fits with your plans but don't dance to his tune type of thing.

I can't see there being a time when he will ever actually look after the dc on his own etc.

Detach, detach, detach. focus on building a life for you and the dc that he just doesn't fit into.

I know that is harsh but he will always be abroad and they will be an inconvenience to him.