Having the talk

[lavenderhoney]

I'm planning to tell my dh its all over and I want a divorce. He isn't going to be very happy about it. I've asked in the past and he has stormed off, refused and told me I'm crazy. He has no problem discussing our problems with or infront of dc age 7 and 4:( he is not a nice man and he is going to be very nasty indeed, I think.

I left almost 3 months ago ( we did live overseas, he is still there and will be for the future , and he is not from the UK) and now is the time. I should have done it before but for various reasons the solicitor said to wait ( financial). I have to talk to her this week and get things moving but I obviously have to tell dh what's coming.

I need some advice on how to handle it, what to say, and what to do with his reactions. And what to expect. I'm bricking it, frankly:(

lavander Ive been following your thread when rl has allowed. I'm afraid I'm going to be a bit blunt. I really wish you well and I'm saying this in the hope that actually, you will be a bit angry.

It's worrying that you are bending over backwards for a man who is behaving very badly.

Its all a big fat fucking mess, and its all my fault for thinking he was a nice chap right from the start, ignoring all the warning signs

You still are. You are still acting like he's a nice chap and its you are going to make your children suffer for your repeated blindness.

Nothing you have said indicates he is stable or reliable or in fact adult at all and if you stepped back and this was someone else, you'd see that clearly.

You're allowing your own emotions of guilt and longing for a family to cloud the reality of what he's actually like, and facing up to that and the implicatoins of that. He ignores one child and favours the other and plays faviouritism games? that's a terrible example for them long term. He expects you to run round keeping his family relations intact? It'd be a great deal more reasonable to expect 50/50 effort. He can pass your fb on to his family; why should you have to hunt them down?

I think that you are lost in emotion atm; regret and fear for your children having a small family. But it may be that they are better off without a father as bad as this. In fact, they probably are. Unless he grows up and becomes an adult, not a spoiled brat-man.

Meerka, that doesn't make me angry, it makes me want to cry:(

You are very right- I feel very guilty about my dc. And I hate myself for getting into this mess ( I don't want to go back though)

but you got the ball rolling getting in to this mess by ignoring the warning signs at the start of the relationship.

Anyhow, it may seem as mess but it will only become a bigger mess if you allow it.

HE IS NOT A NICE MAN, HE IS SEEING SOMEONE ELSE, STOP FEELING GUILTY AND PLACATING HIM.

Lavender - long term lurker here from way back. Like most, I respect and admire the quality and compassion of your advice to others and was a bit disappointed that you weren't moving back to London so I could be your friend when all your RL ones were being crap, but not in a weirdo stalker way honest

I'm also recently separated with 2 small DCs and suffered just the same guilt about them having just some crappy little family (me), rather than the whole loads of cousins and a 'real' sense of 'proper' family or whatever I was projecting at the time.

The thing that someone pointed out that really helped me is the fact that there are some things you can't compensate for, and it is damaging to try. The family you had planned would have been nice if it worked out that way, but it didn't - and realistically it was never going to. It's gone or it never was, whichever way you want to think of it. No end of facilitating, sacrificing, even inconveniencing, is going to perfectly counter that loss and to keep trying is damaging to you all. Stop trying and instead out your energies into building an alternative. Just my views, but:

A small core family isn't second best.
There is plenty of time to encourage a relationship with the in-laws
Four is too young to deal with this without you

Finally, don't underestimate the impact of your mum's death on how you are seeing and reacting to all this.

I'm hiding in the toilet at work with a tiny phone. I hope this makes some sense. All sincerely meant with your well-being at heart.

What the others say.

Ok it looks like dh and I will stay together (I nearly split from him, and he now knows I mean it - he changes/deals with stuff or we split) but my dc have no real relationships with any extended family it is just "us"

It hurts but that is the reality, we have to work with what we've got and I would rather leave my dc to move into a houseshare then them live in a nuclear family where they witness emotional needs are ignored by their father, where stuff is just swept under the carpet.

I honestly truly think your dc will be no worse off if your STBXH disappears off the face of the earth - he clearly isn't interested in them and their welfare. Guilt is a wasted emotion, focus on giving them the emotional wellbeing they need to thrive despite the shit that life throws at them from now onwards.

The best thing about all this, lavender is that you don't want to go back. I think every single person on this thread thinks that that is the right decision, big style.

Your head must be absolutely rocking over with stuff in the last few months, but as a suggestoin, if you can try to step back from your emotions and see things uncoloured by emotion even for a short time then that might help give you strength against the feelings of guilt. Those are -feelings-, and right now not terribly helpful ones.

What does your solicitor say? you really should not have to put up with the nasty/nice approach he pulls all the same. Has he been in touch after the silence last night?

Random, thanks for posting when you have your own troubles. I hope your dh steps up.

And yes, I have to stop trying to expect him to be the father I wanted for my dc and the husband I wanted for me, and move on. However, I still have the issue of him coming to see them - he hasn't given me dates yet though since I said I wouldn't travel. Plus I don't want him staying - he's hardly likely to do bedtime or breakfast.

I've been in contact with some of my extended family and I'm making plans to go and see them, and I will be going to London as I have family there too. I would have moved there, whothewhat, if I could have afforded it!

Its very hard having to face all this and deal with it. I feel time is passing and I'm not going fast enough iyswim

It's going to baby steps. You have already seperated but getting him to accept it is going to take time.

Get on with your life, don't sit waiting for him to give you dates - you could be waiting an awful long time. Consider what is going to happen if he ever comes up them!

Try and start living your new life now. Minimal contact (preferably none) with him. Give the situation headspace once a week or whatever - that's all it deserves.

Focus on being the loving and reliable parent you are to your dc, you are doing a great job.

Well, he's given me his dates and is unhappy with me wanting him to stay locally and says he may not come now. This will really upset the dc who are looking forward to seeing him. So I may have to let him stay. I don't know what to do about this really. The solicitor says its only for a week or so and if I could manage it for that time it will be helpful to ensuring an amicable as possible divorce and making sure he agrees to support the dc financially.

He also wants to take the dc away for a week in the UK, but I said no, as its just too long, a couple of nights is ok. Is this reasonable? He has asked me to arrange it and find somewhere for them to stay.

He also wants to fly them up to Scotland for a couple of days to see complete strangers who are elderly but friends of his and plan to take him fishing. I said no to that as well, as I don't want him having the passports and also I don't know why he thinks this would be in any way suitable for the dc. Again, am I being reasonable?

Are you sure you are getting sound advice from your solicitor? I am surprised s/he is suggesting you host your ex's stay. Also, it may be expedient for the divorce, but won't it be confusing for your DC?

I don't get why he thinks it's your responsibility to sort everything else, apart from being a twat about it. You've separated, so he can't expect you to run around doing errands for him like you did as his wife & you're not his Mum either. It's for him to start sorting this out. I know you feel sad for your kids, but he needs to take responsibility for maintaining his relationship with them. Maybe you need to let him get on with his bonkers plans for his visit (albeit with trains to Scotland so you don't have to relinquish passports). He clearly has no concept of what they need, but would learn very quickly and perhaps respect your advice more, rather than seeing you as obstructive.

Basically, he sounds like he's throwing his toys out of the pram. He also knows threatening not to visit will push all of your buttons & get you back in line because he know trying to guilt you directly about your relationship is no longer working but your devotion to you kids is your Achilles heel. Try to resist being so blatantly manipulated by him.

My gut instinct to all this is "hell no!"

A key phrase my solicitor used when my ex demanded a weeks holiday with the kids after not seeing them for months on end was "whilst I agree in principle, it is in the children's best interests to rebuild their relationship slowly" - do you really think he knows the kids well enough to take them for any overnight contact away from you?

You cannot trust their father to put their interests first - you have to do it even if it causes stress. You cannot let him stay with you - it confuses e issue for the children and is therefore not in their best interests. He is threatening not to come if he can't stay with you because he is controlling you. He is using YOU putting the kids interests first to achieve what HE wants - not what is best for the kids.

I have read all your posts, and I really feel for you, but please stop bending over backwards to make life as easy as possible for this man who is using the kids to achieve his ends. He has no real interest in the kids but he knows that you do. He also knows that the kids are a guaranteed method of getting you to obey his whims.

Sorry. Didn't mean to write so much, but basically if HE chooses not to come and stay in a b&b, well, as sad as that is, it is his choice.

What DocMcStuff says.

Yep, Doc said it better than me and is right about puttingthe children first.

doc speaks a lot of sense.

Doc, thanks for your post.

I do know what you write is right about the children. He is going to see the happy family life and home I am creating and want to be part of it. He is going to be very upset and angry I won't give him a chance. He still thinks I'm having an affair and this is the reason I don't want him. He can't understand I am happy alone, with the dc.

I am so worried about him being here and trying to make me try again and us arguing endlessly, and him trying to talk to me about everything. Which I don't want to do as for me its over and I just don't want to bring up all the examples of awfulness and have him shoot them down. We did it all at the time the crap things happened.

I ignore any mails and don't reply. If he starts on Skype I say I have to go and I don't want it discuss it. He gets really angry with me that i won't let him have his say and make one last go to be a family. I have told him I don't want to talk like this but he won't listen.

It really does upset me, re living how I felt during this period. I can't re read old threads for instance ( even ones I've posted under different names over the last few years.) its too painful.

I am worried about him having the dc overnight as my dd gets very sick occasionally with breathing problems. If he is drinking ( which I very much hope he doesn't, but all his suggested overnights with the dc revolve around him seeing friends as well, so I can see him putting them to bed and drinking) and they will wake up in a strange house, he may be too drunk to get up and not know what to do anyway- he's never got up with them before.

When we were still overseas. Dd was very ill and having convulsions, and I wanted to take her to hospital, and he was against it. I ignored him, of course. When I pointed this out as an example of why I'm not comfy with him taking the dc overnight, he got really angry and said I only saw him as a bad dh and father. He then said his life was awful and he only kept strong and going for me and the dc. I don't understand him at all.

I feel I need to stop going over and over it all and worrying but I can't. It won't go away.

lavender - I can't read any more and not post

Why are you so keen on trying to cultivate a relationship with your vile-sounding husband? He really isn't interested in his children, is he?

He mustn't stay with you, despite what your solicitor is saying. And I'm really and that that would have been suggested, given the relationship and history.

If your 'D'H really wants to see his children, he will find a way. And you won't have to facilitate it.

Don't, please, let him worm his way back in. Don't do anything to help him, when it's going to inconvenience you, at best and, at worst, put your children in danger.

Lavender, my ex was convinced I was having an affair and that's why I left him. I wasn't - I just couldn't live with an emotionally abusive twat of a man any more! His problem was that he was projecting his own line of reasoning on to me (which I didn't realise at the time!) - I'm pretty sure he cheated on me, therefore in his mind, I could quite easily cheat on him.

All your reasons for not trusting your ex with the kids for overnight access are valid. You do not have to let him take them. You can quite reasonably say "no". You can let him come up with alternatives. You do not have to make suggestions, provide accommodation nor wave the kids off with a man who does not have a clue how to look after them. If he doesn't like this, tough.

Keep the contact arrangements through the solicitor to maintain a paper trail - continue to offer to make the kids available to him if he decides he wants to visit, but don't roll over and let him kick you around while he screws with the kids.

You know deep down that your feelings are reasonable. You know that his actions are unreasonable. Keep focused on those two thoughts, and get through this. One day you'll turn around, like I have, and realise those babies you fight so hard to protect and keep safe are hulking great teenagers and have not been screwed up by the decisions taken in their best interests years ago!

Everything Doc says.

Please stay strong and come here anytime you want/need some support to stand up to him.

He is livid at you for daring to stand up to him and no longer pander to his demands. That is his problem not yours.

Your solicitor sounds a little less than excellent. How did you find him? Advising you to let H stay in order to keep things 'amicable' is appalling advice. You need a Shit Hot lawyer.

It is down to your H to get his own arse in gear if he wants to develop a positive relationship with his children. Stop doing all the running! Not only are you meeting him way beyond half-way, you are opening his own front door and inviting him to wipe his feet on you. You aren't his DW anymore.

How come he can suddenly afford to fly internal to Scotland, btw? He's after the passports.

Just want to agree with what the PPs say. All your requests are more than reasonable. Him threatening not to come is designed to use the DC to get to you. In future don't tell them about impending contact with H until it is absolutely settled, and if he lets them down it's HIM doing it, not you for not giving in to his demands.

I suspect your solicitor is giving rather crap advice because they may not know about what H might try to make you do if under the same roof as you. I wouldn't be surprised if you haven't confided this as it's clear it's hard for you to talk about. Perhaps you might need to tell the solicitor this. You know what I'm referring to. Hugs xxxx

I really do not think your solicitor is giving you sound advise. He has a legal financial obligation to provide for the children..............END OFF. This is something the Courts will set, if he ignores that then there will be a Court Order against him.

Do not let him stay. Of course he wants to stay in the house when he visits. It's so he can wear you down and make you feel guilty in to giving it another go.

If he doesn't want to stay somewhere else, then tough shit. It's his problem not yours or the childrens.

Stop contacting him. Do as everyone keeps advising and do everything through the solicitor.

In all honesty, I'd be looking for a new Solicitor. I can not see why they are even telling you to facilitate this idiot.

Now you've posted about your DD's breathing problems and his reaction to a medical emergency, ignore what I said (somewhat facetiously) in my previous post about letting him have them overnight. No wonder you are worried. Do as others have said - don't be obstructive, but don't be afraid to put your kids's needs first. It is clear that he doesn't understand what's needed.

A legal obligation yes, if he was resident in a country that supported such claims. Unfortunately he is resident in the Middle East, and as such doesn't have to pay a penny if he doesn't want to.

This is why the solicitor is advising to keep things amicable if possible and if I can get things to a point where its possible the future will be better for the dc wrt seeing him. It is good advise as I don't see the point in deliberately making things worse if I can keep them as calm as possible.

I don't want a row or cause problems for what is in effect two weeks out of the year. It's not helpful to me, the dc or dh. I'm going to talk to him again and see what we can do. I don't hate him or anything like that, and he's not violent so perhaps we can make it a pleasant experience for the dc to see their father before he goes again. Its not ideal but its worth a try.

Puzzled. You believe if you go out of your way to pacify him and meet his demands then he will return the consideration? Is that right?

I've skimmed through the thread and think I remember your thread from before you came back to the UK.

I'm not sure that you're really registering the fact that this man is being emotionally abusive. Not just to you, but to your children (cutting your son off on Skype etc).

He is using you to maintain his relationship with the children - unless you want to be the one organising contact and being the mediator between him and the children for the next 10 or 15 years, you need to stop for a moment. He is using the children to control you.

Part of his role as a father is to be responsible for creating and maintaining a relationship with his children - you can and should facilitate but he needs to do the legwork. It's best to start now as you mean to continue - if he won't do the legwork now, he won't in future.

Please, stop letting him use and control you - set out your requirements for physical contact (in UK, not overnight to start with etc), keep facilitating Skype contact and sit back. He needs to do this himself. Plan for a future with no financial support from him and free yourself from the need to keep him sweet.

You've moved away from him physically but you still need to do it emotionally - you're so used to doing everything for the children that it must be very difficult to leave anything in his hands but you must relinquish some control (at least from the perspective of making the arrangements) as you will make yourself ill if you carry on this way.