Having the talk

[lavenderhoney]

I'm planning to tell my dh its all over and I want a divorce. He isn't going to be very happy about it. I've asked in the past and he has stormed off, refused and told me I'm crazy. He has no problem discussing our problems with or infront of dc age 7 and 4:( he is not a nice man and he is going to be very nasty indeed, I think.

I left almost 3 months ago ( we did live overseas, he is still there and will be for the future , and he is not from the UK) and now is the time. I should have done it before but for various reasons the solicitor said to wait ( financial). I have to talk to her this week and get things moving but I obviously have to tell dh what's coming.

I need some advice on how to handle it, what to say, and what to do with his reactions. And what to expect. I'm bricking it, frankly:(

Second what the others have said about NOT letting him stay with you. If he's coming for a whole month, it may work out cheaper for him to negotiate rates on a holiday cottage/let. Whatever, it's not your problem.

Having read Januarycat's hair raising thread over the weekend, is it worth putting some protections in place in case he tries to take them out of the country (maybe on French passports)?

Yes, I saw her thread and of course the ME has no alliance to returning abducted dc. I don't think he would but I didn't think a lot of things:(

I'm still thinking, tbh. I've a call to the solicitor planned. And lots of other stuff to get wound up.

He won't have ready cash for holiday cottages- and he must have a relationship with the dc. So whatever is the norm, I have to look outside that to facilitate it. Hence offering to fly the dc. I've no idea why he plans to come to the UK though. He can fly straight to his parents and collect dc at airport. I can pick up from the airport and fly them home.

He doesn't need to come to the UK.

Hope you are getting some good sound advice from your solicitor.

I agree he must have a relationship with the children BUT that doesn't mean you have to facilitate his financial situation or put up with him in YOUR home.

You offer good sound advice to others on different threads in similar positions, yet when it comes to your husband, you stumble and seem to want to do the exact opposite

Hope you have a lovely Easter planned x

Granville, thanks:)

However, I have no idea if my solicitor is giving me good advice! I have nothing to base it on. I suppose I'll find out the hard way.

He is now telling me its all my fault he behaved so badly and he will be better off without me anyway. Then he wants to try again. Then he slags me. Its exhausting. My self esteem isn't brilliant anyway and the almost constant kicking is not helping. I keep crying and cannot make decisions or sensible choices.

today I saw a lovely man with his dc- and I thought - my dc have never had that. And I hated myself for even dating dh and not realising. I love my dc so much but I failed to provide them with a decent father and their childhood is so short.

I think you just need to stand firm and tell him the dc are not leaving the UK and he either sorts himself out some accommodation in the UK or it's tough sh*t. Worst he can do is take you to court!!!!

I would not let the dc go the ME, and do not let him stay with you.

I would not let the dc go the ME, and do not let him stay with you.

I don't think it's even about taking them to the ME - if he takes them out of the UK with their passports, its whether he'll keep going beyond the EU.

Lavender, if you can, try and step back from the mixed messages he's sending you. It's all part of keeping you off balance. Think of it like a pinned snake, he will twist and turn, try and bite, possibly go still to lull you into a false sense of security.

Believe it or not at the moment you have the upper hand. You are away, in a different country, with your DC. He's going to try and do everything to ensure you lose that advantage.

Don't let him. Repeat they you are happy to facilitate him seeing the DC. In the UK. That of he comes to the UK he will have to stay elsewhere as you are not together anymore.

Be careful, don't feel sorry for him , don't believe a word he says.

He will either stay with me or take the dc to his family in Europe. I'm not happy with that, mainly as he has never even out them to bed, and no one speaks English except him. I can insist I fly with him to help and go and collect them. My solicitor says to keep him sweet so he keeps paying for the dc. He is out of jurisdiction in the ME.

He can't afford holiday homes etc. and he only has a few weeks holiday before leaving for another year. The dc need to see him.

I am more concerned he will want to try again, be rebuffed, and react badly.

You are perfectly entitled to say to your H "sorry that doesn't work for me" if you fly the dc out there, there is no guarantee they will be returned to the airport for you to collect them.

Where is the property you own/mortgage?

He cannot expect to stay with you when he is visiting. It's just ridiculous. If he can't afford hotel or alternative accommodation for a longer stay, he'll just have to curtail his visit. Not your problem. If he stops paying maintenance and he's out of jurisdiction in ME, what is your entitlement to benefits/tax credits? It's all very well the solicitor saying you should keep him sweet, but it just allows him a means of control over you. If his current location puts him beyond the CSA's reach, surely this would mitigate towards a clean break type of divorce where you get more up front? Is your current solicitor au fait with cases in your complex circumstances?

That's what I thought, perhaps you can get the entire equity in the house you currently own if he works out of CSA juristiction. After all there will be absolutely nothing to keep him paying in the future - quite possibly just to "punish" you for going through with the divorce.

Random, we don't own a house here. I rent. So its precarious. And I cannot be so mean as to stop him seeing his children because he can't afford a holiday home. That would be cruel.

I'm really thinking about it. Anyway, there's always a chance he will meet someone else before the summer! And not want to spend his hols doing childcare 24/7!

Hmmm, I'm not sure your Solicitor is offering the most soundest advice by telling you to keep him sweet.

There is keeping him sweet to an extent where your are amicable and on speaking terms BUT that does not mean he can take them out of the country.

He may be out of jurisdiction once out of the ME, but once he has the kids and their passports you are at his mercy and I would seriously question whether he would bring them back of take them back to the ME.

There is a reason he doesn't want you flying them out and I think he will go the most damning way to hurt you and that will be through the children and taking them away.

Once they are back in his hands and France or the ME he will then have you over a barrel and force you back to the ME

Oh dear so you don't have any savings/equity at all? It sounds as though you need to prepare yourself for not getting any financial support from him in the future.

I would look into renting housing benefit in your area and a house that will meet that criteria.

As you are living seperately and are in the process of divorcing him you are entitled to claim benefits from now - such as CTC, housing benefit etc. provided you qualify on residency IYSWIM.

Thanks random:(

I'm aware I am very reliant on dh which is the main reason I couldn't just up and leave the ME. Irresponsible with dc.

So, i am trying to walk a very difficult path.

Yes you are indeed. Do you qualify to claim benefits in the UK? Even though you are working you may qualify for partial housing benefit for where you currently rent.

You are now seperated, the money he gives you is maintenance IYSWIM?

I would start saving like crazy and keep an eye out to rent somewhere cheap enough that you woul qualify for full housing benefit if that makes sense. Do not rely on him being reasonable at all and don't agree to demands believing that he will keep to his side of the bargain because you have no legal recourse if he doesn't.

I've popped back to update. Dh has gone quiet and stopped the nasty emails, texts etc. he still signs off with xxx which annoys me and he tells the dc to kiss me for him which I have asked him not to do.

Financially he has agreed an amount so that's done.

I am having massive problems with other things. I don't know what to do or think so maybe someone can help.

1. I have no idea why I am living where I am, the dc are ok with it so that's nice and they like the school, but they would like anywhere. I think here is ok, but its not amazing. I could have gone anywhere but i knew the area here vaguely so renting a house/ school seemed easier. I now wonder if I should go somewhere else but I don't know where and I feel very panicked.

1. I keep crying about my dm. Everyday. She died last October and instead of it getting better its getting worse and worse. I'm driving along or something and I think " mum would have liked to know that" and I burst into tears. I try to block out thinking at all in case I think of her and start to cry. I am tired of feeling tearful and crying.

1. I have friends. At least I thought they were. Now- I think its me and I am the most gullible person on the planet. The behaviour so far of my friends whom I have known for years- is a) go nc as I should have stayed with dh. B) tell me they have major problems and can't support me. Then say they are ok, come and dump on me for the weekend. Then they go nc as their dp takes them back or their problem goes away.

This makes me feel very used - almost like a ons or something! She comes over, is all charming and lovely, , talks about all her issues, gets up and goes early in the morning. Never hear from her for another few weeks before she suggests another evening.

C) to contact me to arrange a time to talk on the phone/ Skype/ FaceTime and stand me up! Two or three times before I realise I'm not getting the hint. Then they go nc. Very busy, apparently. But good luck...why bother? And stop telling me I'm such a great person and how much they like me if there don't mean it. If I'm such a great person why am I being treated like that? I think its me:(

I don't know if I am just full of self pity and shouldn't be so sensitive or I just am as shit at picking friends as I am a dh.

The other thing could be I am a nightmare and emotionally indulgent, too needy and should stop believing my friends when they say things and face that they are too nice to tell me I'm a nightmare and hope I'll get the hint!

Oh, Lavender - sounds like you have a lot on your plate. For what it's worth, here are my thoughts:

1. where you live. You returned somewhere you knew as a 'safe jumping off point' when you left ME. You don't have to stay there. In fact, if there's any chance your H will become unreliable with maintenance in future, consider relocating somewhere with a lower cost of living and better employment & childcare options. It doesn't sound like there are any significant ties keeping you in the area.

2. Sounds like all of the recent upheaval is making you miss your Mum all the more. I'd consider counselling. This will also give you a safe and supportive outlet for all of your current worries, as it doesn't sound like your friends are being at all helpful or supportive in this regard.

3. your friends are not behaving like friends. It does also sound very one-sided, like they are using you. Sounds like you need new friends. A relocation may help with this, but counselling would also allow you to explore why you end up with such unequal friendships & help you to form kinder & more supportive ones in future. Turn the other ones loose.

With respect to the ones who are pushing you to reconcile, let them go too - but also consider whether your husband's sudden charm offensive is linked & whether he's co-opted them to try & bring you to heel.

In short, sorry to hear you've been so monumentally let down by everyone at the mo. You can chat to us, but I would seriously consider counselling too. I think you'd really get a lot out of having a sympathetic ear and safe place to talk right now. Take care.

What DustBunny says. Yes to a therapist for definite.

Yes consider moving. You need to try and build a social circle and hope you meet some new friends through this.

I think with losing your Mum and leaving your STBXH then you will be more sensitive, however your "friends" are being shit tbh.

Big hugs x

Dust bunny, I have a job here already which is p/t and fits in with school and holidays - boss is very understanding although is oblivious to any personal stuff. I compartmentalise like mad when there. Its very well paid and almost the same role I had pre dc, in London. I can manage financially with it and I really don't want to put the dc and me through yet another big move.

The dc like their school and its an o/s school plus the secondary in the area is o/s too.

My friends - I have new ones I'm making and they are very nice. We are building a life here. Old friends I can't do anything about how they treat me tbh. I will just have to forget about it. And be self reliant again. I suppose being out of the country for 5 years and being unhappy and not facing my issues with dh for so long made me loathe to talk to anyone as I would have to admit it and then do something.

Its probably me that needs to build bridges and be a friend instead of using people now I'm back. Their lives moved on too!

Dh doesn't know any of my friends. I doubt they would get involved. He actively hates one of them and refused to let me go out and see them when they did a stop over in dubai.

Re my dm, I think its normal and I'm also thinking I'm over tired and need to be more mindful of myself.

Hi Lavender,

Sorry things are tough going at the moment, and sorry you feel let down by your so-called friends. My two-penn'orth on your pre-occupations:

I think you feel unsettled about where you are living at the moment because everything is unsettled, you are doubting yourself and it throws a general malaise over everything. But as you say in your most recent post, there is plenty going for where you are. You had to pick somewhere to come to, and you made your decision based on reasonable factors, so there's no need to doubt those choices. That's not to say it may not be right to move on at another time, but don't second-guess yourself, just because other decisions such as how to handle XH are more complex. And remember, "no decision" is also a decision.

Re: your mum - bereavement counselling would undoubtedly help, but if that isn't possible, perhaps you could think about doing something that would help you to say a proper goodbye to your mum, on your terms, without all the added mess of how the funeral etc highlighted issues with XH. For example, you could go somewhere she liked and release some helium balloons, or set off a little home-made boat containing goodbye messages and memories down a stream. It might help you to channel your grief.

As for the friends, well I know how easy it is to be a crap friend, it's just the path of least resistance. I'm certain it's not you. but you are right to focus on the new friends you are making, and on being a friend, as these things will pay back.
Lots of un-MN-y hugs and to you.

Thanks fluffy I suppose I would feel like this wherever I was. I just wish I could afford to be nearer London really. Or a bigger place nearer there which I love but I couldn't rent there to start with as too expensive so I looked further and found the schools and rent is cheaper. Plus now I have a job!

My dm, I think I'll just keep getting on with it. I think if I start counselling I'll never leave. It does seem self indulgent as well, for some reason.

Dh hasn't contacted us for quite a few days which is ok by me but so unfair on the dc. I am worried for them when he comes over. He won't have seen them for 7 months and wasn't all that patient and interested before:(

Dh has finally told me when his holiday dates but doesn't want to look after the dc without me. He won't have seen them for 7 months and is unhappy about looking after them on his own. With his pils, who don't speak English and he will want to chat and go out with friends etc etc- he is used to me doing everything.

I could take some holiday and go as well but I don't want to. I'm not playing happy families plus he wants to " talk" and i think he wants to get back together. He is being quite horrible again as well.

He has agreed I take and collect the dc, but tried to get me to arrange a child escort for the flight! I said no, they are too young. Plus I don't want him having the passports.

I don't know what to do. I think the dc will be ok ( allowing for mil insistence on total darkness at night and hysterical screaming from dc woken in night and pitch black etc... Plus dh wouldn't never argue with his mother and she is always right and comes before the dc happiness and well being. Its contributed to our split.

Given the background context, and his inability to parent independently, I don't know why you are even considering this.

He wants to see the children and I want him to have a relationship with them. I just am lost at how to facilitate it without causing upset for the children, spending time with him myself and ensuring they spend time with him before he goes again and they don't see him for months again.

The alternative is he comes to the UK and stays with us for the period. He can't afford a separate b&b or anything so its here or there.