Having the talk

[lavenderhoney]

I'm planning to tell my dh its all over and I want a divorce. He isn't going to be very happy about it. I've asked in the past and he has stormed off, refused and told me I'm crazy. He has no problem discussing our problems with or infront of dc age 7 and 4:( he is not a nice man and he is going to be very nasty indeed, I think.

I left almost 3 months ago ( we did live overseas, he is still there and will be for the future , and he is not from the UK) and now is the time. I should have done it before but for various reasons the solicitor said to wait ( financial). I have to talk to her this week and get things moving but I obviously have to tell dh what's coming.

I need some advice on how to handle it, what to say, and what to do with his reactions. And what to expect. I'm bricking it, frankly:(

And the date is a lawyer! Criminal though. Not divorce unfortunately

Just got an email from him saying he wants to try again, and hopes we can talk like adults. That last bit really pissed me off. I've completely ignored him. Which makes me feel quite childish.

I feel very overwhelmed tbh. And I am practising avoidance so much I don't actually know what I really think or want as I don't seem able to be brave enough to let myself think about it.

Think of your situation like a house that you have cleaned thoroughly after years of neglect. It is shiny and smells nicer than it has for a long time. But, there is one little cupboard crammed with stuff that needs to go. The thought of tackling that little cupboard becomes so overwhelming that you can't even go in the room where it is. Because when it is done, you don't know what will take its place. And that is frightening.

So, you decide that rather than tackle it in one big session, you will just take a bit of crap out of it at a time and put it in the bin. That's not quite so scary. You can do that. Suddenly one day you notice that you have binned the last piece of crap and the cupboard is clean and ready for new stuff. And you are actually looking forward to choosing what goes in there. It stopped being scary along the way, and now it is a pleasure.

Actually lavender ignoring him is the best thing you can do at this stage. Ahem, it has been the best thing you could do for a long time.

So keep on ignoring him. Let your solicitor handle him.

I can't even imagine how hard it is for you atm but you do have a lot of people rooting for you on MN, brisk as we are sometimes.

Remember, it's really hard now but you are doing the right thing.

be gentle to yoruself ... and

Very sage advise from Twinkledust. You need to bin the last bit of the crap.

As I said a few posts back, until you serve those papers he will keep thinking there is hope and badgering you about getting back together.........and I was right, he's emailed you asking the question.

For your sake (and sanity), your children and for him (yes he's a twat but it involves him as well), make that phone call and give the solicitors the nod to serve papers.

None of you, as a family or individuals will be able to move forward until it's done. I'd love to do it for you but only you can make that call.

He's asked me to do some work for him. He wants me to sort out formulas in spreadsheets for some stuff. I've ignored it:( I don't want to. He knows I don't want to.

I'm going to spend the weekend thinking about it and I'm taking the dc wild camping for the first time next week, so I'll get myself together a bit. Still dithering on taking loads of books but i do believe that I use them as a distraction and I need to think. I don't want him back, but I need a strategy:(

Well done on ignoring the bait.

Have a productive and enjoyable break with the children

(and if you meant 'spend the weekend thinking about' with regard to the work, just don't. You know what happens to fish that take the bait. Swim the other way. Don't permit him the head space.)

Your strategy is divorce is it not Lavender? That's why you left, that is why you have been to see a solicitor, that is why you have made a new life for you and your children.

Do you love him? Do you want him back? No, no you don't, and you are doing yourself no favours in dragging this out for longer than need be.

The best thing you can do is to take some of your own advise you offer others on here. Move on asap and stop dithering, it will not achieve anything in the long run, nothing at all by delaying. You are putting yourself and your children under unnecessary stress and pressure.

What would I do? Call your solicitor first thing Monday morning and give them the nod. Then, go away and enjoy your holiday with the children, forget about him and stop dwelling on the past.

I don't think I had a strategy tbh. I just wanted to get away. But I don't want him back

There's no wifi when I go away. For a week. He hasn't spoken to the dc yet since he tried Thursday and its been the weekend where his is. No missed calls either. Dc a bit pissed off, especially as I let ds email him and he hasn't responded since he sent it a few days ago.

You seem so anxious and stressed, and with good reason: your situation cannot continue like this indefinitely. I know first hand that even after the 'day of leaving', the bullying and twattishness just ramps up.

It is not a strategy to go back to him. That is clear, you know that.

But you can start to manage the anxiety and stress out of your life by putting into motion your divorce, which although is far from pleasant does have an end date. After that, you have a formal contact order, which can be managed with minimal contact, and you're free.

Is it possible to go back to your solicitor again for advice on how best to proceed now that the visit is out of the way?

I can't see how your situation is going to change as long as the marriage continues.

However, if her advice is to stay married as long as you can - then that's a 'strategy'. However, it's clear now that strategy is making you miserable, so a new strategy must be devised. She's best placed to do that - if she's not going to give you a new strategy, then find a new solicitor. They do not dictate your life, then merely advise and then take your instructions. They are a service provider, not a court.

And also if possible with WA?

He's no threat to you now because he's out of the country. But should he re-emerge WA can be there for you. It's not Marital Aid, it's Woman's Aid. They are there for you.

Exhaustingly, he has emailed me saying he loves me and wants to do anything to get me back. He says he neglected me as he was busy making money for the family and he's sorry.

I have a feeling its bullshit. I think he thinks I should have put up ( like I did for a couple of years or more) and shut up.

Interestingly, he wants me to do all his admin for a massive consultancy project he has been hired for. What a coincidence, eh? I haven't replied.

I don't want to be with him, although I feel so guilty I don't - and he clearly has no plans to come back here. He told the dc today he would try and come over for the half term in oct! I have to tell him he can't stay here.

I don't think he's a danger anymore, I just want him to stay elsewhere. Its awful him being around.

The 'stuff left in the last cupboard' is starting to whiff. It won't improve, just get smellier and more annoying.

The cyclical thoughts around 'I just want him to stay elsewhere' are dead ends without function for you, other than a diversion from doing.

It might be that you would benefit from some 1:1 counselling to help you deal with the last lap

I agree with Twinkle. Taking back control means determining what you can do about the situation and not relying on the other person to 'do the right thing'.

What is right for you, he isn't going to willingly do unless he decides it's right for him.

If he's guilting you into a certain behaviour - then it's manipulative. Only you can stop yourself being manipulated.

As Twinkle says it's cyclical. You have to not just say 'stop' but force 'stop' because he's not going to - after all it's working wonderfully for him. He gets to party, not have the kids, and live the life of a single man, but try to get the benefits of the marriage when it suits him.

It's of no benefit for him to change anything. Ergo he's not going to do the right thing by you.

A bit of counselling to give you the strength and courage to change this is needed here. No one else but you can do it, so some moral support

Courage, Lavender.

He was making money for the family - perhaps, but the long hours socialising, the limited help with your DCs, the aloofness when you were coping with bereavement, general disrespect and antagonism, did you dream all that?

There's the loneliness when you peer into the future, uncertain because it's not what you had mapped out. It's daunting but you know it won't last forever.

Then there's the loneliness of being trapped in a marriage when you have realised you've grown apart and lost sight of what you originally meant to each other. He refused to listen for months.

Even now he pretends you're on such great terms he can ask you to do work for him when he was truculent and goading on his visit and hasn't bothered to keep in touch with his DCs since.

I am almost tempted to think this kind of one-sided correspondence is for someone else's benefit.
"See how reasonable I am, this came out of the blue!"

Dustbunny you are right, he writes to me now as though he is completely bewildered by my leaving. Why is he doing that?

He also presumes he will be staying whenever he is here and I have to tell him he's not.

I agree with Donkeys. There may well be an element of 'writing for someone else's benefit". Do you understand what we are pointing out?

Are you able to write back in a detached way? Something along the lines that, "as he knows, the relationship is over and you have been separated since [date], for reasons that he is well aware of. It would therefore be inappropriate to engage in any proposed work such as he suggests. Similarly, future visits to see the children will require him to make his own accommodation arrangements."

This would provide you with your own paper trail verifying the situation, clearly and without debate.

And please, get on with tidying up before he takes the initiative to do so. At the moment, you have the advantage. Don't waste it.

Well put, Twinkle - a brief reply, nice and coherent.

Why is he doing that?

You know when your kids act up. They are doing it to get attention, any attention whatsoever.

Adults do the same thing.

Especially controlling husbands.

From now on, work out some boundaries. Personally I'm in favour of getting on with the divorce, minimal contact, not entertaining any bad behaviour and ignoring the idiot.

I do write very ranty letters.

But I don't post them.

Well, not to him anyway.

I advise you only write factually about the children and making practical arrangements. e.g times to facetime/skype. Dates of school holidays.

Until you state clearly: you cannot stay here anymore (and are in a legal position to state that) I'm afraid he'll keep assuming he can.

At the moment, I get the impression you are tying yourself up in knots with anxiety and hypothesising; and trying to understand his behaviour and attitude.

Bollocks to understanding idiots. They're unfathomable.

Save your energy for the kids.

And yourself

Fuck. He's gone bananas. I'm actually more scared now than when he was here. And he's thousands of miles away and I still jump at the door creaking.

I told him I wasn't going to do his admin for free. And I said he couldn't stay here. And I've been telling him for months ( years) I'm unhappy. And stop promising the dc expensive gifts and I'm ordering and paying for it!

The fuckwit also wants to know why he can't have a second chance. Second chance! How many chances has he fucked up before? Just NO.

He keeps calling me on Skype and as he is 5 hrs ahead I'm ignoring, as he must be pissed. He certainly sent me a very pissed and angry email.

What now, what do I do now?

Switch off your phone, iPad or whatever and go to bed!

Disengage. Deal with it in the morning. It is way too late now.

He is an arse and keeps providing you with proof that you are doing the right thing.

When you are feeling brave you might want to reply to one of his emails suggesting that he replies to your DS's emails and at least feign an interest in his children rather than harassing you.

Keep ignoring. Switch off Skype, and the computer and phone if necessary. He's very far away, so you're safe.

Someone else who posts regularly on your thread will come along later tonight, or tomorrow morning, but I didn't want to leave you with this panic. You can ride it through though, because he can't get to where you are now. He is words on a screen, an annoying ring on the computer.

The longer you delay filing the divorce, the longer this angst will continue. At the moment he probably thinks you are wavering, hence the wheedling, blatant disregard of your wishes. It's the equivalent of him sticking his fingers in his ears and saying "la la la, I'm not listening". Filing for divorce makes your position clear. Come on Lavender, time to rip the plaster off, metaphorically speaking - this slow retreat is hardly any less painful for you.

And hugs for the scare last night - hope you got some sleep.