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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I don't want to rip my family apart but I have to. He slapped our DD's face.

362 replies

FlatsInDagenham · 21/03/2014 23:43

I will try to keep the story short. Last night DH slapped our 5yo DD's face because she was being obstinate, arguing and refusing to listen to him. Not hard enough to hurt much, but still, a slap on the face.

He has form for this kind of thing.

I have told him I want to separate.

He is devastated. I am devastated. When DD finds out, she will be devastated too. Our 2yo DD might not notice much but she loves her dad.

So that's 4 devastated people who want to be together but I am forcing us apart.

But I just cannot accept his treatment of our DD. If he had shown any regret or questioned his own actions at all, I might have been able to help him through it. But he stands by his actions "110%". Just like he stood by his actions the other times. I can't stand by him and let it happen again. I can't co-parent with a man who thinks that a 5yo can be "manipulative", has in the past described her as a "little bitch" and thinks it's ok to slap her face.

He's not a bad person (yes I know how that sounds but it's true). But sometimes he gets it so unbelievably wrong - parenting, I mean. He also has alcohol issues (though I must stress that he hadn't been drinking when this happened) that have plagued our marriage for more years than I care to remember. Many times I thought I'd end our relationship over the alcohol. But in the end it's something else that's tipped me over the edge. He slapped our DD's face. For arguing back. I can't come back from that.

Oh God, please tell me I haven't over reacted (he thinks I have). Please tell me if you think I'm splitting up our precious family unnecessarily.

OP posts:
somedayillbesaturdaynite · 23/03/2014 16:17

get thread deleted if you feel unsafe- click report on your own post

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 23/03/2014 16:23

And get someone to go home with you or check on you if you don't feel safe.

Logg1e · 23/03/2014 16:24

Wurst out of interest, what, if any violence would make you ask the man to leave?

OP change the your username, private message posters you have found helpful, and start a new thread. Get this one deleted so that you have privacy you're entitled to.

ThatVikRinA22 · 23/03/2014 16:42

op. name change and go otbt. I think its perfectly reasonable to ask him to go while you think and for him to seek help if he wants to. thag woyld be a deciding factor for me about continuing int he long term. If he wont go then, due to him having form for this, I would contact wa AND police. there us a difference between 'lawful chastisement' and smacking a child across the face or hair pulling. the police can help force the issue if he wont leave and can signpost to other sources of help for both you and him. best of luck.

FabBakerGirl · 23/03/2014 16:50

The calling her a bitch would be the deal breaker for me. That is worse than the slap imo.

FabBakerGirl · 23/03/2014 16:55

I remember you posting about him pulling her hair after she bit him.

Please just leave. Now. Tell him you want time to think and it isn't forever. Bluff your way through this just to get him out then file for divorce, report him to whoever needs telling and tell bursary/school what has gone on as the child will and it won't look so good if they think you are defending him.

Lweji · 23/03/2014 16:58

Take care and stay safe, Flats.

As for OH, if you are reading this, think carefully how you are going to deal with this.

You have the opportunity here of being a good dad and a good husband, or screw it all up.
Think carefully who you want to be. Don't risk losing it all.

Handywoman · 23/03/2014 17:00

Stay safe Flats

FabBakerGirl · 23/03/2014 17:44

Flats - I am going to PM you. Can he see them? I won't send a message until I have heard from you just in case.

Stay strong. And if you feel at all scared call the police.

LumpySpacePrincessOhMyGlob · 23/03/2014 18:06

Get the thread deleted.

SimLondon · 23/03/2014 19:32

He found your thread? is looking at your browsing history? that's a bit worrying. Don't forget women's aid are there for you, the children's centre's family support workers are there to help and support you. And we are here anytime you want to talk, it's a really stressful time for you i think but be strong and look after yourself and your little ones.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 23/03/2014 19:42

also make sure you clear your history and go in an incognito window in future.

AskBasil · 23/03/2014 20:15

"She is little enough not to remember any of the incidents if nothing recurs."

The two earliest memories I have are of being hit. One because I noticed that the milk bottle was only half full and decided it didn't look right and ought to be full, so I took a chair, climbed up to the sink and filled the bottle up to the top with water so it looked like it should, and one for giving my baby brother, who was in a pram, a sweet (I thought I was being a kind sister). My brother is 2 years younger than me, so I must have been 2 or 3. I was younger for the milk one because I remember the sweet incident happened later and when he started choking, I was too scared to tell her he was making funny noises in case she hit me again like she'd done over the milk - that incident was in my mind.

Still think they're too young to remember these incidents in future?

Also even if they were, do you think abusive incidents don't matter if people don't remember them? I blanked out certain things for years and memories were triggered of when I was six or seven. Yet I never forgot the milk and sweet incidents, which happened when I was much younger. You cannot predict what the conscious mind will remember and what it will forget.

OP regarding anger management, be careful about seeing that as a panacea. Anger management is about managing your feelings, but there is very good evidence that it's not feelings which matter when it comes to abusive behaviour, it's beliefs. Men who attend anger management who don't change their beliefs, learn to abuse their families more effectively, more secretly, with less likelihood of being caught. Your husband doesn't believe he did anything wrong. As long as he believes that, anger management won't stop him abusing your DD, on the contrary, it will teach him to use the language he needs to get away with abusing her. At the moment he doesn't have that language and it's probably not safe for her to give him it.

FlatsInDagenham · 23/03/2014 20:53

FabBakerGirl, go ahead and PM me. He can't see them.

AskBasil, I haven't asked him to do anger management - I've asked him to get personal counselling and alcohol counselling, plus do a parenting class.

OP posts:
Handywoman · 23/03/2014 20:56

Another one here who thinks 'anger management' is a red herring

AskBasil · 23/03/2014 21:47

That's a good start Flats.

I would not let him back in the house now he's out (is he out?) if he hasn't changed his fundamental beliefs by the end of the six months. That's what it will take for him to never abuse either of his children again. Changing his feelings, changing his attitudes, changing his techniques - none of those will cut the mustard. Changing his core beliefs is what counts. He needs to believe that he simply does not have the right to do what he did to your DD or to anyone else.

Mostly abusers don't change, so you should use this six months to get your head round the fact that the end of it probably won't result in a reconciliation, but in a final split. However someone has to be in that extremely tiny minority who do, so nothing is inevitable - your husband has the chance to change himself and therefore the lives of you and your DC's and some people do manage it. If your husband is one of the majority who don't, splitting with him will be much easier if he hasn't lived in the house for 6 months. You'll be surprised at how confident and determined you will be once you've seen the positive effect of not living with someone you have to tip toe round so as not to set him off. Because without realising it, that's probably what you've been doing. You only need to have one huge massive violent incident every year, to ensure everyone modifies their behaviour to avoid that for the rest of the time.

I hope you and your girls are OK today.

toprotecttheinocent · 23/03/2014 21:52

Ok, I have name changed for reasons which I hope become apparent in a moment. But just to prove my MN credentials penis beaker, the horse squatters and naice ham.

Fiat I am sorry you are going through this, and you have already had excellent advice but I want to tell you a story.

Many years ago at UNI I met a friend, and we remained close for years. I was her MOH, godmother to her 3 kids, she was the person I called when my DH died etc. Best friends seperated by distance some times but 30seconds into a phone call it was like we back at our digs. We knew everything about each other. Well almost everything.

What I didnt know is that her husband was not a nice man. She hid it from me, he never hit her, never laid so much as a finger on her. But he had a terrible temper and a drinker although would never admitt he had a problem (sounds a little bit like your husband) he didnt ever do anything horrific whilst the kids were small and like you my friend loved her husband and so did her girls. My friend made excuse after excuse, he was tired, stressed, she bit him, he "lost control" and she suffered in silence for a reason I can only guess at. He never thought that his reactions where over the top or unreasonalble he never tried to excuse them as he was "justified" in what he did

When her oldest turned 11 she developed a pre teen stubbon streak. One day her husband "totally justifiably" sent to on that little girl, he was so far out of control that my friend a "big bubbly, strong, kick arse kind of women" tried to pull him off of his daughter, she faught hard, and for her effort got knock across the room and fell down the stairs. She was killed outright, the 4 year old girl hearing the screaming from her sister and mother and being frightened came out from her bed room, the 8 year old (god bless her) pulled her baby sister into the bathroom and locked the door and screamed for help. When the police got to them she was still screaming in total fear and fright.

I had to identify my friend, I sat for weeks next to the 11 year olds hospital bed as she faught for her life and recovered. Ive changed bedding when the 4 year old had bad nights, I dealt with night terrors, panic attacks, sleep regression, school phobia, seperation anxiety, SS, educational phsycs, phyciatrists, therapy, Ive driven those girls miles to appointments, to their mothers grave, to doctors, I had to sit through the trail and hear what he had done that night and every other time he was "justified" I still nurse those girls through life without their darling mum and through their private battles and injuries (in the case of the oldest) who still sufferes and will for life from things done to her by her "loving" father that ONE TIME:

I do not say this to frighten you, I am NOT saying this will happen to you I am saying this as the person trying to pick up the pieces, trying to mend scars, trying to repair lives. I have no idea what I am doing most of the time, but I know one thing in my gut, Those girls (who I love as my own, who I do my best to raise as my friend would have wanted and who I would give my life for without hesitation) and my friend (my wonderfull bubbly friend who was so amazing, loving, kind, sweet, thoughtfull and forgiving) they all deserved better and SO DO YOU.

If you want to give your DH 6 months, to shape up. Let him look for the courses, let him do all the work and Dont facilitate him, He needs to take responsibility at this point and it might be an idea if you considered something like relate for YOU, not jointly at the moment. Make sure let him do all the running, IF he doesnt make any effort or doesnt earn your TRUST again then you MAY NEED to make another decision.

AskBasil · 23/03/2014 22:15

Christ that's so horrific toprotecttheinnocent. Sad

What a timely reminder that you don't need more than one violent incident to ruin lives and it's not worth the risk to live with someone who can't get his head round the idea that he simply isn't entitled to behave like this.

I'm so sorry you've lost your lovely friend. Bless you for giving those kids the love they need. Thanks

itsjustplayingonmymind · 23/03/2014 22:26

Please do not listen to those who say leave him. It is wrong to slap a young child or even anyone but the harm of the separation is much much painful than a slap. Please do not destroy your family for a slap,you can instead warn him and make it clear that you do not allow this and I am sure that he will not do it again.for the sake of the kids and forgive him

tribpot · 23/03/2014 22:29

you can instead warn him and make it clear that you do not allow this and I am sure that he will not do it again

You mean apart from the fact he has already done it more than once? Despite the OP reading him the riot act on each occasion.

toprotecttheinnocent, so sorry about your friend.

Magmar · 23/03/2014 22:30

Fuck sake. It seems like your husband has registered to post messages on this.

Do not listen to itsjust.

Lweji · 23/03/2014 22:31

It was not simply a one slap.
This type of behaviour evolves and gets worse if there isn't responsibility and will to change, which he hasn't shown at all.

itsjustplayingonmymind · 23/03/2014 22:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

AskBasil · 23/03/2014 22:34

itsjustplaying - read toprotecttheinnocent's post.

Lweji · 23/03/2014 22:35

Yes, what about the children, who should live in a happy, safe home?

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