I don't want to rip my family apart but I have to. He slapped our DD's face.

[FlatsInDagenham]

I will try to keep the story short. Last night DH slapped our 5yo DD's face because she was being obstinate, arguing and refusing to listen to him. Not hard enough to hurt much, but still, a slap on the face.

He has form for this kind of thing.

I have told him I want to separate.

He is devastated. I am devastated. When DD finds out, she will be devastated too. Our 2yo DD might not notice much but she loves her dad.

So that's 4 devastated people who want to be together but I am forcing us apart.

But I just cannot accept his treatment of our DD. If he had shown any regret or questioned his own actions at all, I might have been able to help him through it. But he stands by his actions "110%". Just like he stood by his actions the other times. I can't stand by him and let it happen again. I can't co-parent with a man who thinks that a 5yo can be "manipulative", has in the past described her as a "little bitch" and thinks it's ok to slap her face.

He's not a bad person (yes I know how that sounds but it's true). But sometimes he gets it so unbelievably wrong - parenting, I mean. He also has alcohol issues (though I must stress that he hadn't been drinking when this happened) that have plagued our marriage for more years than I care to remember. Many times I thought I'd end our relationship over the alcohol. But in the end it's something else that's tipped me over the edge. He slapped our DD's face. For arguing back. I can't come back from that.

Oh God, please tell me I haven't over reacted (he thinks I have). Please tell me if you think I'm splitting up our precious family unnecessarily.

Why are people still bothering to try and help the op? Her husband has won, he knew that already when she planned a family meal only a short time after he hit his own daughter.

He is crying, he is crying to make sure he stays and he knows she is weak enough to fall for it. Again like I said many times before, I fear for her children because this man does sound dangerous (alcoholic and an abuser does not mix well)

I hope this thread does get deleted because I don't want to keep reading how she keeps giving in to him. I think it is very unlikely he will even leave and if he does, it be only for a few nights like he said. So it is all on HIS TERMS.

Your poor poor daughter. I know she is saying she wants him to stay but she is a child, an naïve child. One day she will be a grown woman with a baby of her own and she think "How could my mother stay with a man who abused me and had an alcohol problem? why didn't she put us first?"

I am not going to wish you luck as you really do not deserve it. Women like you are the ones I detest the most, the ones who always put a man first.

Flats, I hope you are ok today and that he has the sense to leave and do the best for his family without other measures.

Lweji flats does not need your advice, she already knows she is going to forgive this 'man' so I do not get why you think she will report him if he does not leave the family home? He will be gone a few days then she welcome him back with open arms.

Rebecca, hide the thread if it bothers you.

Have you ever been in a similar position?

You should know that it's not as black and white as you paint it, and there is definitely hope for Flats.

Rebecca just fuck off. You are not helping

I hope Rebecca does not work in anything remotely involving social work.

Sorry Rebecca but blaming the OP is effectively siding with her H.

Oh I have been in her situation so I understand how hard it is to leave but my husband has never laid a finger on our daughter or ever called her names. It is really a sadistic man to turn on his own flesh and blood.

How is there hope for flats? she stayed with an man who has had an alcohol problems for years and now he has turned on their children but instead of it being the last straw, she has decided to sweep it under the carpet just like everything else.

LEM You fuck off, how are you helping? she is not taking any of our help so what is the point? Doesn't it annoy you that these poor children have be around that man?

I would call ss. They will be able to help. No hysteria but practical advice and help. glfor all of you. Police I don't think so as I think theh eill just call ss. Im not sure but the qui V kest route gof help is ss.

This thread is at the unfortunate intersection of the MN Leave The Bastard Chorus and the MN Anti Smacking League, so you get the standard roll call of a small group of vociferous posters posting over and over and hounding off anyone with different or even more moderated views.

IMO the OP is coping and balancing her options as well as can be expected, breaking up a family for cuffing an insolent child is a big call and should be the last, not first resort. IMO OP is best off talking to professional helpers and people who know her and her situation, not randoms on the Internet with fixed agendas.

my stepfather was reported, to social services. his sorrow lasted all of a week before the abuse began again. he wasn't reported after that. he knew he was untouchable. he used to say "What are you going to do? report me?" seriously. he knew he had got away with it and used it against me. after a beating he always came bsck to talk to me, and tell me how terrible I made him feel for having to beat me. The blame was always left with me. this man broke my fingers whipping me with a garden cane. he knocked me out, I ended up in hospital at 11. I was 19 and had my son in my arms the last time he ever went for me. I had left home at 15. after that last time I ceased contact with both mother and him. is your dd going to do the same years down the line? I used to staunchly defend my mother as a child. I was an adult before I realised that she was culpable. by then I couldn't forgive.

LazyJaney have you even bothered to read the whole thread or even op past posts. Her husband has an alcohol problem and there has been many problems so if it was an one off cuffing of an child I don't think everyone be so outspoken.

I should add this was in the 80s. I think ss have better safeguarding in place now.
op, talk to the.nspcc. let them advise you.

Rebecca, have you read the whole thread?
This is the third time.

If you're still reading the thread then good luck flats, I really hope you secure the safest situation for you and your children

All the best flats..as hard as it is for you, you know what the right thing to do is here. I left my abusive husband who's fuse was getting shorter and shorter with me and with our babies. Let me just say he never laid a finger on them..but. His agressive outbursts started happening in front of our very small DC and he then attempted to shove me over whilst I was holding our baby DS (the only thing that prevented me from falling over with him in my arms was the coffee table that I stumbled into). He wasn't remorseful. No apology. Infact he said he hadn't realised I was holding DS. So the 13 month old infant in my arms was suddenly invisible. Enough. I loved that man very much, but I love my babies more, they rely on their parents to protect them. So I did.
That was it for me. I made plans and left. Behaviour like this snowballs, I'd witnessed it snowballing over the previous months.. and I wasn't prepared to see what would happen next.
I wish the best for you and your babies, flats, I don't know if you'll get him to leave or if you think it's workable within the home, personally in your place I would have packed them up and left on the spot. Perhaps watching his life walk out of the front door without a backward glance would have flicked a switch in him, but that's by the by now.
Take care

lazyjaney cuffing an insolent child ..are you for real? That statement would refer to a brief tap on the bum (I'm anti-smacking btw and make no apologies for it), OP's DH slapped his 5 year old across the face, he's also pulled her hair and thrown her on a bed so she landed on her baby sibling and they cracked heads. None of that could be described as 'cuffing an insolent child'. Jesus.

breaking up a family for cuffing an insolent child is a big call

She's 5 years old.
5yr olds get it wrong sometimes. They need the adults around them to teach and guide them, modelling appropriate behaviour.
Slapping a child's face is abuse and the first priority must be to protect that child from any repeat of that abuse.

If she wants to repair the relationship, that is fine, and that is where the professionals come in, but the child's needs must be placed first.

Just by using the term "insolent child", you have removed a certain amount of responsibility from the parent, and placed it squarely on the victim.

Beg my pardon Rebecca. Very sorry. Should be flaming lazyjaney.

Any adult who slaps a 5 year old across the face doesn't deserve to be a parent. Unfortunately since our courts favour men's rights 'the rights of the child,' inadequate lunatics who think they're '110%' right to slap their 'little bitch' of a daughter as well as announcing their 2 year old is manipulative and headed in the same direction, if not already

Someone who needs anger management is not someone who only attacks toddlers/small children and cries crocodile tears for themselves. They are angry with everybody, not just those weaker than them.

OP, if you'd like a PM from a child of abuse whose parents are still together, please PM me. I certainly won't be aggressive RE: your choices.

Insolent??? At 5??? I've bloody well heard it all now.

Flats if you aren't in a place where you feel able to leave, then tell someone who loves you what has happened. Break out of the perfect picture you create. I've created one myself in the past so I know this seems difficult if not impossible. But you need support and so - crucially - does your DD.

Exactly. 5 year olds get it wrong. I'm a grown woman and I still get it wrong sometimes. So by the same token should I get a slap across the face? If I'm 'insolent' should I be cuffed? Fact is, if the OP had posted that her DH had become frustrated with her and slapped her across the face, would anyone be posting that she might have pushed his buttons or been difficult etc, therefore excusing him? No. The majority of posters have said get him to leave for a very good reason; he has repeatedly crossed boundaries with regard to his 5 year old. And all he's taught her is if she 'steps out of line' she should expect a slap. That's not good parenting.

If you weaken in your resolve perhaps consider this..?

Your daughter is defending her father.

She is learning to justify domestic violence. How long before she starts saying "but I deserved it", "but it was my fault".

How long before she believes it so much she stops telling you that Daddy hit her on unsupervised visits?

How long before she thinks that a functional relationship involves being beaten if she disagrees. How long before that becomes a pattern in her relationships that she chooses.

And how long before someone seriously hurts or kills her?

You are her protector. You are her knight. You are her champion, her mother lion roaring "how dare you defile my beautiful daughter".

She may not realise it but she looks to you as her protector and as a guide for what she should accept as normal in life.

Please don't allow her to think that this is acceptable. Please dont allow her to think that this is what she is worth.

These lessons become so entwined in our sense of who we are.

And playing happy families is never going to be worth the irreparable damage of allowing domestic violence to be acceptable in a home.

If it was an adult in the street who did this to her would you have invited him in to sit at your table and share your bed?

Be strong for her. Be her protector. Let her see she is perfectly and wonderfully made and NEVER EVER EVER deserves to be the recipient of violence.

Is he still there? You do know he is only sobbing because he feels sorry for himself, right? He will say anything you want to hear and will probably be a new man. For a bit.

If he stays then the next time he hurts your child, either with words or actions, it's your fault.

You are responsible for his actions if you allow him to stay in the family home.