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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for Spook

480 replies

Janstar · 15/03/2004 09:34

Continuing from the 'help' thread....

How are you today, Spook?

OP posts:
spook · 09/04/2004 07:39

Hi everyone.Not posted much coz not much to say really.Same old,same old...but yesterday I did it again.I begged him.He holds me really tenderly and everything but I know it's just not there.I ask him to give it a chance and try and fight for it but he has no answers.Still doesn't know.He see's what he's doing to us all...but..
You know I don't even care about her anymore. The affair and the discovery all seems so long ago-although I am well aware he still has feelings for her.But it somehow doesn't seem so important to me anymore.Whats important is that we try and salvage something-because I am SURE that we can move on and try and scramble our lives back.I know you're all going to disagree with me and I know I could be sat here in 3 months having discovered he's still seeing her....BUT...I don't know.I just desperately want to try before throwing our whole lives and history and family away.
He does still love me-just not as much as he did and the waters of his love for me have been so muddied by his lust and need for time with the other woman.
I have been following Empress' thread about having an affair and it is so interesting-all the comments about the chemical rush and moral desert you enter into when conducting an affair.I can understand it.And everything that's said about the excitement overcoming everything else and the denial of what's happening-thinking it will "fizzle out" and before you know it it's too late.I DO understand.He has more or less said as much to me.I know I can never forget but "she" is no longer at the forefront of my thoughts.HE is and the longing to move forward and TRY.Maybe because it's removed from me and I can no longer check phones and get paranoid.
I am going out on Sunday night and he has offered to babysit.Something I shirked up until now.I think this will do him good.Being back in his home with the boys and not me.At the moment I think this house is like alien territory to him-almost a "crime scene" if you know what I mean.He needs to come home and be at peace and realise what he's missing.Does that make sense?? And ofcourse I will be going out-dressed up and having a good time (ha ha)
Then he suggested we spend the day together on Monday-all 4 of us- and see what happens.What do you all think? I know you are all going to be brutally honest with me! Bring it on!!

spook · 09/04/2004 07:40

Oh and Happy Easter everyone! Have a lovely time with your families XXX

magnum · 09/04/2004 08:25

I think you should do what your heart tells you too even though some may not agree. It's your life after all. My dh had an affair and we got back together. That was over 5 years ago and I have never looked back. We now have a lovely dd and have been happier than we ever were before. If I listened to friends and family I would not have given him another chance. I'm glad I followed my heart

spook · 09/04/2004 08:33

Oh Magnum thankyou Did he get to the point where he realised what he'd done to you and did everything he could to make it up to you?

numb · 09/04/2004 11:54

hi spook you know i am in same situation as you but more recent. i'm not sure if you have been to relate or not but i have been on my own and found it really helpful. it has made me feel better about myself a little bit stronger. it gives you an insight into why they behave the way they do and why they tend to have the affair in the first place. the best thing you can do for now as they advised me is "wait and see" and try to distract yourself, i agree you should go out and let him see waht he is missing at home i intend to do the same. i have a poem for you spook

love is like a butterfly
if you chase it
it will elude you
but if you turn your attentions
to other things
it will simply float down
and land on your shoulder

hope this helps, i do know EXACTLY how you feel. XXXXXXXX

Janstar · 09/04/2004 14:16

You must do as you see fit on Monday. I am concerned that you might end up being hurt again by being in a situation where you taste what you can't have. Do you really want to spend the day playing happy families and then give him a big hug before he goes off to meet his girlfriend?

Isn't he trying to have the best of both worlds? I am not saying you shouldn't go, but that it might be a good idea to think about these issues before you decide.

I think it was very gracious of you to wish everyone a happy Easter with their families. That is not an easy thing to do from your position. I hope you can get some joy out of it with your boys. Lots of love xxx

OP posts:
Earlybird · 09/04/2004 14:28

Spook - I've followed your story from the beginning, and relate to how you feel. My dp decided he didn't want to be in the relationship any longer (for reasons I couldn't comprehend or accept), even though he professed to love me. For a long time, the pain was unbearable - emotional and physical.....like being kicked in the stomach. I too begged and begged him to try, and couldn't believe that he would throw us away. We had many different versions of the same conversation about the reasons for the split, which always ended with me being dreadfully upset. I finally decided that I had to move on, and accept what he had decided even though every bone in my body wanted a different outcome.

I could only accept the split by severing ties with him completely. Seeing him was too painful. He'd show up, and it would remind me of everything I wanted, and couldn't have. I realised I was torturing myself, by hoping/wishing things would be different and that he'd come to his senses. I couldn't believe I was a disposable part of his life when he was so central to my happiness and well being. He proposed that we do things together as "friends", which I attempted. But, it was too painful. I'd spend some time with him and it would be so enjoyable. I'd get glimpses of what our life together had been, and what I hoped it still could be. It was too tantalising, and was absolute mental, physical and emotional torture. Finally one day I told him that I couldn't be in contact with him anymore - not by phone, letter, text.......no contact.

I know my situation was much different because we didn't have children, or complex finances to sort out, so I could sever all ties. Do you have friends or family nearby that you could enlist to help you in the short term? Perhaps you could drop off ds at some neutral person's house so you wouldn't have to encounter your ex? Is there someone who could act as intermediary?

It would give you some time to heal, and to start forming a life without him. At the moment, there's a gaping hole in your life where he used to be, and you're hoping he'll reclaim that place so you can be whole again. But, if he is so confused and uncommitted, time with him is like picking at a sore, which of course, can't heal. It is so hard to know when there's a chance for reconciliation, and when you must move on to preserve your sanity. It does get better, but it takes a long time. I only started to heal when I didn't have any contact with him. Would that be possible for you? Best of luck to you, and it does get better. I know that seems impossible at the moment when you're consumed with such powerful feelings. Just take it a day at a time, and try to think what you can do for yourself and your family to protect yourselves. Sending hugs and supportive thoughts......

Beccarollover · 09/04/2004 17:18

Hi Spook

Sorry you have had a crap few days - do what you think is right, I can see where your coming from in feeling you want to give it one last shot - when I split with exdp I thought that as long as I knew I had totally exhausted all possibilities of being together I could then move on as otherwise I thought would always regret not doing my very best in keeping DD's Mummy and Daddy together - for us it was not to be and we are all much happier but hopefully for you your marriage can be saved. (((hugs)))

Are you still up for Tuesday?

Becca
x

spook · 10/04/2004 18:55

hi everyone and thanks for your messages.Earlybird-your post made me sob and sob.Have just been away for the night to see some friends that were "his" friends when we met.Very old friends.They are ofcourse dismayed and disgusted by his behaviour but it was very interesting getting a male viewpoint.Not that our friend has ever had an affair but he said some very salient things.About bereavement and the healing process and human nature sets a certain time limit on these things.I am nowhere near the end of my mourning but I will get there.He also said there is absolutely nothing I can do to rush my husband at this point.Any attempts to force his hand will end in nothing but heartache for me.How right he is! Have just had another of those futile conversations with him about fuck all.Well-not about fuck all actually.I said that I knew the only ewason he's not seeing much of her is because she is now running scared,and I wasn't prepared to grovel and lose the ounce of self-esteem I still have left for someone who has no intention of coming back to me. He just says "I don't know,I don't know" But when pushed he did say "No-I don't want to grow old with you...at this moment"
The conversation ended with him in tears !!!!! saying he just couldn't take it anymore-me and my questions that is.
I have also had such a hard time with my 7 year old.He has attacked me and my friend (the wife),made their daughter cry (one of his favourite freinds) because she just picked up on the grief around us.He told me he hated me again and again,get her out of my sight she is a monster...I can't do anything.Everything I do is wrong-this is him speaking of himself. He went for his little brother for no reason,smashed toys-god the list goes on.
I actually yelled at him-"you can go and live with your father in his bloody flat!" Wrong wrong wrong I know but he is so bloody NASTY! I know that's hard to believe and I know he's hurting but he punched me so hard he winded me.So eventually we got home and just held each other sobbing and I said please don't take it out on me.I know you have all this anger and hurt but tell daddy.I have told him that Easter Monday together is a non-starter-very wise advice Janstar.But I now have tomorrow and Monday gaping ahead of me.God I hate Bank Holidays
But I'm still going out tomorrow night and he's still babysitting.I don't know now whether to just knock that one on the head.Especially after Earlybirds post.

sobernow · 10/04/2004 19:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Janstar · 10/04/2004 19:33

Hi spook, I'm here. Seeing friends is so good for you, they help you focus on yourself. I don't feel a bit sorry for your dh, after all the crying you have done it will do him good to have a taste.

You definitely need to think about what you want to do with your life from here on, assuming he is not going to come back. That will not in any way prevent him from doing so, it can all change back again in the future, but for now you need to think about what you would like to be doing and start to build towards it. Once you get to the point where you are focussing on that you will find that periods of time when you don't think about him lengthen. Your life will begin to revolve around you and your boys as it should.

I was a single mum for about four or five years. I didn't get into that position by choice, I was devastated when it happened, but in retrospect it was the best thing that could have happened. I have so much more fulfilment now. My journey of self-discovery which has enabled me to heal many inner scars would never have taken place otherwise. I have had many worthwhile and life-changing experiences as a single mum and I have become much wiser and stronger than I ever would have done otherwise. I look back and I dread to think where my life would have taken me if I had stayed with my bullying ex, yet at the time I was inconsolable.

Single motherhood holds many joys and many worthwhile experiences. It is a great opportunity to focus on yourself a little more than you ever could if you were worrying about a partner's needs all the time. I know this is not what you have chosen but now that it has been thrust upon you, I hope you can get the best out of it to chase your own rainbows for a while before you either reconcile with your dh or fall in love with someone new, because one of those things will surely happen to you just as you have learned to enjoy your single life!

OP posts:
sobernow · 10/04/2004 19:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Janstar · 10/04/2004 19:41

Just a thought, do try and remember that you only have one life, and each day is too precious to spend it unhappily. I know you have a mourning to go through, and that can't be helped. But each new day belongs to you and is part of your own individual journey through life, and I urge you to make it special for yourself and your boys in some way, even if a small way. A destroying sadness gradually changes into a bittersweet sadness, where you begin to feel the weight of the good things against the bad again. And then you find you can take the best out of it and build something on the back of it. You are then a wiser and stronger person. Everything that makes us stronger makes us better placed to cope with it when something else happens that is hard to deal with. Only then do we choose what we truly desire in life: when we can fulfil our needs within ourself and are not slaves to them.

OP posts:
spook · 10/04/2004 19:44

Oh Janstar-I do so love to log on and see your name. And thanks Sobernow.I told him this today.That I will bring those boys up and we will be so close knit and they will always look out for me and at some point in the future they will understand what he did-walked out on me and them at such a young age and they are going to have HUGE issues with him.It is a given.My mum walked out on me when I was 9 and believe me-it affects my relationship with her ALOT. At this point he hung up on me.He just cannot here home-truths. He is still so fucking unreasonable.Everything I say he twists.It is quite a knack actually. But he continues to tell me how unhappy he was in our marraige-I'm amazed he managed to get out of bed in the fucking morning the way he goes on.
I know Janstar that I have to start thinking about my life ahead without him now.I have strong moments-like now when I know you're there and my best friend is coming round in 2 minutes and then I will wake up in the morning and immediatley want to phone him and say "stop now...COME HOME.I love you"
Those are my worst,unhappiest and weakest moments.And coming home to an empty house.And being away and staring at my phone,wishing that he cared enough to contact me.It's just wanting to be loved and cherished and have someone care where the hell you are and what you're doing.That is so so hard to come to terms with-that thats gone and nobody gives a shit where you are or what you're doing.

Janstar · 10/04/2004 19:48

You know that's not true. Lots of people care where you are and what you are doing. But not the right people, eh, you want him to care.

One of these days the people who do care and have cared all along will mean more to you, I promise.

Now I have to go, have a lovely evening with your friend and talk about YOU not him. xxx

OP posts:
Earlybird · 10/04/2004 22:22

Hi Spook - I never meant to make you feel worse by sharing my experience, and hope that I haven't contributed to your suffering. I was attempting to let you know that I've been there too, came out the other side eventually, and life now is good. Heartfelt apologies if my attempt was clumsy, and had the opposite effect.

When I was going through the split, it helped immensely to talk, to have people listen, and to let myself be supported. More than anything else, I wanted reassurance that everything would eventually be OK - even though I couldn't comprehend how that could be possible. Knowing that people I loved/respected had been through their own heartbreak and survived, helped immensely - and that was what I was attempting to convey.

Regarding dp's friends: I moved to London to be with my dp (hell, moved countries!!), so when our relationship failed I really was without longterm friends or family accessible. His friends rallied in the most admirable way. They were appalled at his decision and subsequent actions. We spent many nights talking about it, and then finally, it was time to move on. (Don't mean to make this sound easy, as I also benefited from some psychotherapy that helped me understand/cope/move on).

It was comforting to know that his friends wanted to remain friendly with me after the split - validation that they liked me for myself, and not because of my relationship with dp. I forced myself not to ask them about him, when in reality I was desperate for news. Partly I wanted to hear that he was miserable and struggling without me, and that he had recognised the folly of his decision! Eventually his friends became my friends without him as the link. We began to explore and define our own bonds separate from ex-dp. And I am still friendly with those people today - 5 years on.

On word of advice - MAKE PLANS!! Don't sit at home. It is too easy to sink. It is too easy to feel hopeless and miserable. Force yourself to go out into the world as an individual (and as a mum), and then very gradually you can start to see yourself in that way instead of as part of a damaged couple. Outside stimulation may also ease some of the tension with ds. Make a picnic, go feed the ducks, go to the playground, sit in a friend's kitchen with a cup of tea, or just go for a walk. Let yourself grieve when you need to, but try to recognise when you're starting to wallow, and would really be better off outside the same 4 walls.

Lastly, I subscribe to an American parenting newsletter. Sometimes it's a bit simplistic and sentimental. But, sometimes it helps to hear words of optimism that give hope. I read this one, and thought there might be something of value for you, or perhaps something that would simply give a bit of comfort. Apologies if the religious overtones don't suit. Just use whatever (if anything), can help you feel better.

Take care. Hang on, take it a day at a time, grieve when you need to, but know that there is life apart from him - and that life will be good again. In the meantime, try and do whatever you can to be good to yourself.

MAKE EACH DAY A NEW BEGINNING

Life is a series of beginnings and ending - of
work never completed, new problems, and ongoing
frustration. Luckily we've been given the grace
of dawn. Nature gives us respite in sleep and
renewed energy in the new day. The cycle of the
natural order of things shows us we can always
start again. We are not bound by the past - we
get another chance. We know the sun is behind
every cloud, that the storm will always pass to
reveal a new day. As the clouds disappear, the
world is again filled with light. What a remarkable
and repairing design is God's world, filled with
the light of new opportunities. We share a circular,
ever-evolving creation. Everywhere we look, if we
examine carefully, we find a beginning, middle,
and an end. What we make of this gift is ours to
choose.

Henry David Thoreau once said, "If the day and
the night are such that you greet them with joy,
and life emits a fragrance like flowers and
sweet-scented herbs, that is your success." A
joyous attitude ensures a creative uplifting life
and is one of the greatest and most constructive
gifts we can give our children.

Every day the universe gives us gifts of pure
energy and limitless opportunity. You can remind
your children of this always-available spiritual
power, and encourage them to tune into its guidance.
The more they do, the less they will feel the victims
of circumstances. When they believe that each day is
a new beginning, with energy and miracles awaiting them,
your children will feel liberated, with a sense of
control over their lives. They will face each day
with more joy.

  • In the new morning I remember what I did yesterday
    and then I do something new. I forget yesterday's
    stuff and start all over again.
    (Age 5)

  • I love the first day of school with new pencils
    and paper. I love to start all fresh!
    (Age 7)

  • In the morning I feel like I was just made all
    over again.
    (Age 6)

Knowing that each day is a new beginning helps us
and our children start our days with the faith
that all will be well. It allows us to experience
peaceful evenings when we know that tomorrow awaits - a
new opportunity to begin again - and fresh assurance
in the mornings that today is full of unlimited
possibilities. We can remind our children the new day
awaits them, so make it special, treat it with
love, and see the goodness in it. Each day, each
beginning offers the potential for bliss. Feel
the magic of that possibility and your child will,
too. Today is sacred; experience delight.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~

QUESTIONS TO ASK YOUR CHILDREN

  • What are your ideas for starting the day on a
    more peaceful note?

  • What might you do with worries or concerns so
    you can begin the day without anxiety?

  • Will you help me create a prayer for our family
    to say in the mornings that starts us all off
    remembering each day is a new beginning? How might
    the prayer begin?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~

spook · 11/04/2004 09:25

Good morning Earlybird.Ofcourse you didn't make me feel worse and your attempt was anything but clumsy.It's just that I could have been reading one of my own posts and unfortunately it didn't have a happy ending(although 5 years down the line you are happy)
I appreciate the time you have taken to support me.THANKYOU. Another day, another feeling of despair. But I know that next Easter/Mothers day/Birthday/Valentines Day I won't be feeling quite so helpless and you poem did help.
I JUST WANT HIM BACK and I don't think he's coming.I don't know him atall.
He said last night yet again that he couldn' think of anything else but getting the business healthy again and getting the investment money in.I pointed out that the business has been on it's knees for over a year and he certainly had room in his head for her and his affair.His reaction..."that helped!That got me through"
Oh well-more of that brutal honesty again. Just wipe the floor with me again why don't you.

Janstar · 11/04/2004 15:42

Every time he makes you feel like this he is setting you a little freer. How many more times can he 'wipe the floor' with you before you say, 'NO MORE' and close yourself to him? Take a step, take another, away from that place you think of as safe, but is not. Take your steps towards the unknown; towards a new life. You don't yet know what is out there, but that is a good thing. You will find meaning and beauty out there that you did not ever expect to be part of your life. You will experience things you never dreamed of. Who is Spook? What is her heart's desire - for herself, for her own fulfilment?

OP posts:
Beetroot · 11/04/2004 16:07

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spook · 11/04/2004 16:58

Janstar.I just don't know who I am any more.I just know I can't go on like this because it is killing me and I am turning into a terrrible mother.I went to a "Family Fun day" today.All I saw were families having a lovely easter together and me and my boys on our own.It destroyed me.My little one asked "what do we do if there's a daddys race?" How can that be the rest of my life.Sad and lonely and depriving those beautiful children of a true family life?

Beetroot · 11/04/2004 17:14

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sobernow · 11/04/2004 17:41

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Janstar · 11/04/2004 17:48

Quite right Beetroot. Spook, you are not depriving them. You have had that choice taken away from you.

In an ideal world, all families would stay together happily and no one would die until they were old. All children would have idyllic childhoods and perfect parents. But we all know that this is not the real picture. Millions of children grow up with separated parents, and they manage to develop into happy and useful members of society. Conversely some of the children who grow up in 'normal' family units have damaging childhoods. What will give your kids everything they need in a childhood is you, you, you. Your dh can be a good father from this point on without living in the family home. It's not as good, obviously, but he can make the extra effort to make sure it is good enough.

This is the hand you have been dealt, and now it is time to focus on your own abilities and ambitions ans start to indulge them. Try to pick up what is positive and use it to bolster yourself. It isn't easy, but it's what you have to do to create a happy life again, and you can do this, I know you can. xxx

OP posts:
spook · 11/04/2004 19:53

Hi everyone.Well I've nearly got through another shit shit shit landmark day being treated like shit shit shit by my shit husband. We had another stupid pointless conversation this morning when he came out with some more choice self-deluded rantings.He cannot understand why I wouldn't want to go "on trial" tomorrow as a family to see how he likes it.
He expects me to do these things and be lovely to him whilst he still keeps it up with evil barbie.I think he is seriously going mad.He is so spiteful and hurtful and unreasonable that you're right Janstar.Every time he wipes the floor with me I will get up a little quicker.
Me and my boys have had a really tough one today-but they have gone to bed with a smile a cuddle and a story and more love than any child could hope for and we'll wake up together tomorrow to face another day.

Beetroot · 11/04/2004 20:36

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