Pissed off.....lies, lap dancing and so called friends.

[Fragglewump]

I thought I had an honest marriage until Friday when out for dinner with friends the wife told me that her husband didn't believe in 'paying for it' and that mine probably only did it to 'further his career'. I felt sick and was baffled but didn't tackle as I was a little drunk and totally mortified about exposing this in public. Cue the next morning when dh reveals that a year ago he went to a lap dancing club with his boss and another colleague. He went to a private room with boss and dancer for a private dance. He didn't tell me because he knew it would upset me and he wasn't proud of it. But he did tell our friend!!! I feel sick and teary. It's the lies that hurt most. Dh doesn't think he has broken our trust. I'm upset by the private dance but would find it much easier to move past than being humiliated by a friend. How can I get over this? I feel sad and pathetic. Goodbye honest marriage.

catty I think that for all your worldy wiseness and "my H did it and I'm ok about it so it's cool" you are rather misinformed, I am sorry

No one has used the word empowerment!

Think it's quite interesting that no one has said that they are a bit jealous/feel threatened by the girls/dancing. Because I suspect there's a bit of that going on amongst the people who think it's sexist. It's a bit easier to shout sexism than to admit to feeling a bit unsexy isn't it? Not pointing fingers at anyone in particular. Just think if we're honest a lot of this is just not liking the idea of it rather than the plight of oppressed women...

AF: I don't know if it's intentional but some of your replies smack of condescending what others feel, you will have to accept that some of us on this thread do not view this as a LTB situation, the OP is getting varied views here, which is all good.

I really dont like the whole thing , not at all. i NOT pro lapdancing

But right now it IS normalised in society, thyere is a groundswell but its slight. and more and more LP clubs are opening

does it make it right. HELL NO
deos it mean a man might do it through peer pressure, UNFORTUNATELY YES

You are entitled to your opinion, AF, as I am mine. I am pretty relaxed about it, you aren't. Fair dos.

I vowed a while ago to stop getting caught up in these pointless circular arguments about men who use the sex industry but when I see comments like "you are over reacting" and "my bloke does it, so it is ok" and otherwise trying to find ways to blame women for men's poor sexual boundaries, I feel sorry for the OP and want to support her

so, more fool me, eh

I'm 49 and have never been to a lap dancing club but if I ever do I hope the lady cracks a few jokes before dancing. As someone pointed out earlier that male strippers are more comedic this would make it all ok , no ?

To paraphrase: It's just because you is jealous, innit? Bingo!

No, it's about lying, and exploitation, and women being objectified.

Feminism is about choice, but not all choices are equally feminist.

It hurts all women when some women chose to make their money out of their appearance and sex. It re-enforces the stereotypical value of a woman being in her looks and prevents those of us with other things to offer (like big brains which happen to be good a physics) from being able to contribute fully to society.

I resent lap dancers, not because I wish I was attractive enough to have that option, but because I get paid less than my male colleagues to do the same job because of the knock on effect of their existence on women's perceived ability to do science.

Well it makes more sense than sitting there with your arms folded tutting about the sexist pigs making the poor girls with the big boobies dance.
Get real.

Hi. It is the lying rather than the act. I went through something similar and while the lapdance was shit the thing that really caused the big issue was the fact my husband had always been so anti lapdancing....To the point he had steered stag dos in different directions etc. I found out about it by accident....And my husband just assumed our marriage would be over.

My best friend happened to be at a party my husband went to immediately after it. Before I found out about the lapdance my friend had asked if my dh was okay because he was so drunk and unhappy at the party.

My husband had gone out with his arsehole pal who was splitting up with his wife. My stupid husband got ratted and this idiot friend took him into this lapdancing club.

It shook the foundations of our marriage. Weirdly it was only my husband who got that it was a deal breaker. My dh was the only one who got why i was so upset/angry/hurt. There was a lot of minimising among friends and family, or at least the few I spoke with.

I think the reason I got over it was due to my husband's reaction to it. He went out of his way to apologise. He never sees that particular friend anymore and curtailed his drinking considerably.

One couples deal breaker is another couple's tiff. Only you know how much of a deal breaker a lapdance is. For me it was the lying or at least the omission that caused the hurt. I questioned everything I thought I knew about him.

Looking back I am glad we got over it. Our relationship was more than a drunken mistake. I love my husband as he loves me. If I were to fuck up I would want him to give me another chance. Forgiveness and understanding and love can all be very powerful. Although it is difficult/impossible to forgive if he isn't sorry.

I really feel for you. Such a horrible time. I hope you work it out.

Hang on, You get paid less than the men to do the same job?

As for the empowerment thing, well, that's a strong term. If women are forced to do such a job, either by coercion or because our benefits system puts them in such a position that they feel they have no choice, then being a lap dancer becomes a whole different thing and obviously not something I'd be at all relaxed about. But if they have beautiful bodies and some dozy blokes want to pay cash to see them, and they do that by choice, for good money, in a free country, then good luck to them. I honestly don't see how anyone can object to that.

I don't think AF is being condescending and there's no aggression on this thread. Opinions can be challenged and defended. It's what makes mumsnet busy.

These debates are important - not least to the OP who has asked for advice.

It's important to challenge beliefs and opinions. And just because you have an opinion it doesn't mean we have to sit back and say "oh that's just fine - it's a personal opinion" - if it's an ill informed one we can and should challenge it.

yes of course I get paid less to do the same job. It is the same across the board in jobs that are considered to be stereotypically male.

Whenever someone acts to reinforce gender stereotypes that perpetuate that situation.

Great post, IceBeing

No AF I'm being serious - wasn't taking the p or anything.
Honestly never met anyone who gets paid less than a man for doing the same job.

catty, how do you know which ones are which ? The coerced ones and the happy to be there ones ? Is it possible to choose only the happy to be there ones, do you think ?

trev, I think some of your flippant comments on this thread have been outside the realms of a support website and not remotely helpful to OP who is very understandably upset, tbh

Yes Trevor, women earn about 20% less than men for the same job, on average.

Because women are devalued.

The fact that they are sex objects in lapdancing clubs is part of the same continuum.

whatever yes you have! almost all women working in traditionally male environments are being paid less than men at the equivalent level. Their promotion prospects are lower and the opinion of their work is lower.

Like AF I too watched the strippers program where the bloke going in said it was nice to have some tits in his face because he could think about the stripper's private dance when he was "shagging some fat bird later"

I too watched the stripper strip completely naked for his private dance and rub her body over his, he did actually touch her but because he was a regular I think they decided to over-look it, and I couldn't help but feel a bit sick when he sniffed her knickers whilst she was naked and sat on his lap putting her bra back on.

The bottom line, the men aren't to touch but the women can decide if they want to and she definitely did. I turned off after they interviewed an 18 year old girl who had started stripping in Edinburgh's "pubic triangle" 3 strip clubs right near to each other.

I work in the media and everyone is on a pay grade scale. None of the men get paid more than me. I don't get paid more than the men. Glad I'm not in a job where this happens and sorry some of you do. That's not fair and not right, of course. I don't think it's the lap dancers' fault though, either.

AF just because I'm more towards Catty's experience of these places and I'm not shocked, appalled and offended doesn't mean my posts aren't supportive. I've also agreed with OP that the lack of transparency and honesty that her DH has showed that has upset her so much. I also don't think you're in a great position to be dishing out judgement on making flippant remarks either tbh just because I don't agree with you, don't try to elbow me out of the conversation please.

I do think some people don't like 'the idea' of women dancing with/in front of their husbands/partners. And that's perfectly understandable! I just think that people generally find it easier to get cross about it than say instead/as well that they just don't like the idea... maybe they find it sexist too, I don't know. But I think there's a bit of it in there. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. Just because I'm not jumping up and down saying the DH is a sexist pig doesn't mean I don't support OP. I do.

Not the strippers' fault, Trevor. Society's fault: for holding women in such low regard.

Whether it's companies choosing to pay their female employees less, or men choosing to buy sexual favours, it's all part of the pervasive way that women are seen as lesser.