Would you cut your mother out of your life? - long, sorry

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It sounds really harsh but she has upset me so much and I just don't want her around to hurt me anymore.

A year ago she told me my SIL found it difficult to be around my child who has special needs. It hurt me really badly at the time but I didn't say anything because my brother and SIL are not the most approachable people. In the end I told my brother about it in a row which wasn't the best of times and I apologised for that. I also rang my mum and apologised if I'd got her into trouble (although really it needed to come out into the open and be dealt with).

My mum then completely astounded me by denying telling me any such thing and she, my brother and my SIL have ganged up on me, called me a poisonous liar and my SIL has told me she never wants to see me again (no great loss there actually, I am pretty sure she is largely responsible for my mum's reaction).

My mum subsequently some weeks later asked me if we could put it behind us. I have told her not until she has apologised and accepted responsibility for what she has done. She refuses to do so (she has never been good at apologising, always has to be right) and whilst telling me to my face that she wants to move on I have found out that she is telling other people in the family that I have done a good job of splitting the family up. It is true my older brother has supported me but only because he knows I am not a liar and my mum has always treated him as an outsider in the family and pitted the rest of us against him.

She is really a very manipulative person. I realise that now. But she is very loving if you agree with her. I have liked to think we have had a really close relationship till now - I used to ring her several times a week and talk to her about almost anything - but the reality is that there is a price to pay for that. Whenever there have been disagreements between us she has always blamed me or DH and I have accepted that to keep things running smoothly between us.

I have been aware for some time that she gossips about me to others in the family, mainly because she gossips about all of them to me and criticises and badmouths them, the way they bring up their children, etc. I used to think stupidly at one time that I was her loyal confidante and then realised with a shock that she was talking just as much about me too.

I really feel that I have so many friends and people who I trust and who really seem to care about me in my life, including DH's family (MIL I think loves me more than my own mum does, she is so sweet), why have people around who don't support me and who I am? Certainly there is no subtext with DH's family - what you see is what you get with all of them and I prefer to have friends around me like that too.

I have never stood up to my mum like this before. My older brother always has and that is why he has been badmouthed and ostracised all his life. My little brother (who always agrees with everything my mum says, worryingly so) even told DH some time ago that he doesn't care for my older brother - but he has never got to know him. My older brother is a really nice person but he has his own thoughts and opinions.

I actually feel hugely liberated by what's happened, like I can be free to be who I am now without the shadow of pleasing my mum hanging over me. I will never stop her seeing her grandchildren but don't want to have a close relationship with her anymore. And yet a part of me tells me this is wrong because we have always been close.

By the way, I have tried talking to her over and over and have put my side across numerous times but she keeps side-stepping the issue and not responding to it, says there is no point in discussing it, we both feel betrayed and that's that. And recently she has implied this must be about more than the immediate incident. It isn't! I just don't like being called a liar and blamed for all of this.

Does anyone think I am overreacting about all of this and should just let it go and get on with my mum? Would you feel as upset as I do?

and mykidsmum, thanks for your comments. Very helpful.

But it is proven that all forms of abuse can have a negative impact on a child, wasn't a study recently conducted which said that children who witnessed domestic violence displayed similar behavioural problems to children who had been abused themselves. Protecting a child is instinctive, why does being a grandparent give you the automatic right to have access to a child.

my comments are almost has helpful and insightful as yours Zookeeper

it doesn't, mkm

Zookeeper - Greensleeves has not had the benefit of having a mother who behaved as yours did: "If nothing else, she kept me fed, clothed and safe in my infancy". There are times when it is better to step away from people for your own sanity and sometimes sadly it these people will be immediate family. Who knows what the future will hold for these relationships, but I am sure that Greensleeves has not taken her decisions lightly. Go and search the archives if you want to see what she has been through and then see if you still feel the same way.

Firstly, zookeeper, you have showered me with insults, I think - I have been called some very unpleasant names by you (control-freak, drama queen, bitter, hysterical) which I don't think are merited at all.

Secondly - what makes you think that sexual abuse is worse than physical or sustained mental abuse, or that you are qualified to make those value judgements on behalf of other people's families? Come to that, how do you know that sexual abuse isn't a factor here? How do you know anything at all about me, on which to base your judgement that I have no right to protect my two and four year old children from an abusive family member?

You haven't been insulted for expressing an opinion. You have been downright nasty and some of your remarks have violated the MN talk policy in my opinion, though. It's a while since I've encountered somebody as vicious as you.

Pages - I fear you may find it harder than you think to cut her out of your life. I think you have to try and imagine which of your feelings would be stronger - the sense of relief that you don't have to deal with her anymore or the guilt and sadness of having her not involved with your life.

I wonder whether you could take her out to dinner - perhaps just you and her. Tell her how much you love her but that you just cannot deal with her behaving that way. If she doesn't want to discuss it, then you've laid your cards on the table and you'll have to leave her to stew but at least you'll know you have given her the opportunity to try and make a bridge.

Greensleeves, in answer to your question you didn't mention sexual abuse in your earlier description of her. I haven't said that one from of abuse is worse than the other

I can't believe this woman is so bad that, say, a trip to the zoo supervised by another trusted family member once every month or so would be harmful to the children. They could then be in a better position to make their own decision about her in time as you suggest.

and judging by your OTT response, it's been a while since you have encountered somebody who will stand up to you..

FFS Zookeeper you are unbelievable, her reactions are down to this emotive subject not because she is a bully who people never stand up to, how can you interpret a situation and responses quite so badly?

Unfortunately zookeeper your suggestion presupposes that my mother is capable of keeping to such an arrangement, behaving reasonably during the visit, and generally resembling a normal human being for a few hours.

I didn't mention any type of abuse, because as I've said repeatedly, this isn't my thread, it wouldn't be relevant to Pages to know exactly what I have been through and I am still quite raw about it myself so I don't enjoy laying the details out to be be picked apart by people who have no sensitivity and no idea of what they are talking about.

Had you ever met anybody with my mother's problems, zookeeper, your idea of a cordial trip to the zoo or polite exchanges of cards/letters, with mutually observed boundaries and things kept polite for the sake of the children, woudl be as laughable to you as they are to me. It's like suggesting a nice friendly dip in the sea with a family of great white sharks. My mother has terrorised me and my family to the point where I have had to involve the police to get her to stop. Repeatedly. And that's only the last few months.

I don't want to discuss this with you any more. I don't think it's achieving anything.

Greensleeves, I just wanted to say that those of us on here who know about your story support you totally in your decision. I know you would go to the ends of the earth to do what is right for your children and that you have made the best decision for them.

I am stunned that your actions could ever be questioned and judged like this. I suggest you get off this thread as the discussion here is of no help to anyone and is obviously very distressing for you.

Crossed posts - good call Greeny. Go and do something nice with your life for a bit instead. So sorry you wandered into this person's path.

I have no doubts that you have done the right thing Greeny

Zookeeper You win my award for twunt of the week.

I generally stay away from threads like this because they get very heated and emotional and unfortunately, sometimes posts, even deleted, leave a huge shadow of hurt across the lives of the posters -
However, I have read the whole thread and I do think that Zookeeper's posts were quite vicious and certainly not very well thought out. I am quite horrified at the ugliness of some of the posts and the pain so willingly inflicted.

Grrensleeves, I truly admire the courage that you needed to make the decisions you did - I can't imagine what you have had to survive and I can tell by your posts that your decision was not one that was taken on a whim - you absolutely do whatever it takes to keep you and your children safe - not only in a physical sense, but also keeping their spirits unmarked by whatever blackness you had to deal with. Nobody is ever allowed to question whatever it is you do to make those two things happen. Ever. And that includes small-minded hideously vindictive comments made by thoughtless people.

Pages - this post sort of applies to you too, becuase you do not need to tolerate anyone who does not see you as an individual worthy of respect. It is very hard because of the emotional ties with your mother etc and all those things that go around in your head about how mothers should not treat their children this way etc. So absolutely take a step back and then, if you decide to initiate contact with your mom again, make sure it is on your terms only. There is an old saying that we always hurt the one's we love the most, but you wouldn't accept that sort of stuff from a stranger. Just because it's your mum, does not make it okay.
You do whatever it is that you need to to make sure that you and your children are safe. Take care -

Well said Coolmama. I couldn't have put it better and I was sitting here trying desperately!

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Greensleeves, you've made the right decision.

You hit the nail on the head when you said that just because your mother is a blood relative it doesnt mean there is any kind of bond between her and your sons.

You're so strong, so so strong. I admire you for your decision and even though it probably means nothing, I give you my full support in what youre doing

I'm not going to bare my teeth and insult other posters who have oposed you on this thread, your life is more important than some names on an internet chat board

Your son will love his birthday, his cake is amazing x

Agree Coolmama.

What a spiteful and vindictive manner you have about you zookeeper! People come here for support and advice. What on earth makes you think you have the right to judge someone based on some clearly misplaced family values that you have?

How fortunate for you that you are able to be grateful for being "fed, clothed, kept warm and safe etc". How unfortunate for your children that they will be expected to be grateful to you (assuming you provide them with all the above), no matter what you do to them in the future.

FWIW, I do have an insight into Greensleeves family issues, and, I wouldnt wish that sort of treatment on anyone. Even you.

Why do you and Cam both "grow up" and realise that the world isn't all gingham check tablecothes and home made cookies for everyones childhoods.

Lastly, Greensleeves, you have conducted yourself in a most composed and polite manner considering the barrage of abuse you have received on this thread. Im sorry I couldnt contain myself as much as you in my considered post.

or even "why don't you.....

Greensleeves, you have my full support too.

I have.

Hope whatever it is is sorted in YOUR and YOUR families best interests. Not hers and the wider family.

Hi, I wasn't avoiding the thread, just hadn't got a chance to get back on here. I am shocked and amazed at what has transpired. I asked for opinions from what I perceived to be an objective and understanding group of caring women (and men if they like). No one has the right to judge anyone in this way. I certainly know now whose advice I will be taking.

Greensleeves, I am so sorry you have been put in the position where you have had to justify and defend yourself. I am certain you have done the right thing for you and your children. Thank you so much for your advice - it was invaluable.

Thank you also Coolmama, foxinsocks and bunjamin for your comments.

Actually, maybe I will feel sad at times like Greensleeves does (and that is why no-one would make this sort of decision lightly) but both me and my older brother agreed tonight that we are both feeling better about ourselves since all this happened, because we have decided not to accept this abusive behaviour any longer. I haven't told you the half of it, btw, as I am sure Greensleeves hasn't.

For those who are more worried and concerned about whether their kids are going to love them in 10 years time, just ask yourself whether you would stand by and watch your kids being physically beaten up, sexually abused and mentally tortured for years AND blamed for it and still expect them to love you?

Pages, I think you are doing the right thing. I think some people have been getting their rocks off on being nasty today.

Thanks VeniVidi. I am definitely feeling stronger every day and more confident in knowing my own truths and feelings about things. My brother has just told me he is feeling the same way.

It is very upsetting that Greensleeves has born the brunt of it, though, when her pain is already so raw and she told us that. Hope you are okay Greensleeves.
[sad}

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