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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

some advice with saying the right things

95 replies

mirtzapine · 19/02/2014 18:00

DW likes flirting when were out, often she'll just disappear and I'll find her chatting with some strange man.

I don't like it and it makes me very uncomfortable.

I obviously phrase it wrong because when I bring it up I either get accused of starting an argument or I want to stop her enjoying herself.

Can anyone give me a few useful phrases where I can express how uncomfortable it makes me in such a way that it can't be construed as an argument starter and to make it clear that I would very much like it to stop.

OP posts:
Logg1e · 19/02/2014 18:22

"I worry about you when you disappear in a busy pub and I'm not sure where you are".

If somebody left me like this when out, I wouldn't be where they'd left me by the time they got back.

JeanSeberg · 19/02/2014 18:31

"Do you have the number for a good divorce lawyer or shall I google one for you?"

Phalenopsis · 19/02/2014 18:37

"Y'know when we're out and you starting flirting? Well I'm fucking fed up of it. Do you want a relationship with me or not?"

I don't see why you should have to sugarcoat it. Start an argument if you have to. Why should her 'having fun' make you feel uncomfortable?

Lweji · 19/02/2014 19:09

So, is it always with other men and she actually leaves your side or group of friends, and is she flirting with these men.

PoshPaula · 19/02/2014 19:25

Next time I see you behaving in that way, then feel free to carry on, but be aware that I will be leaving you to it and you can make your own way home.

Original poster
mirtzapine · 20/02/2014 08:53

Thanks all, I just think it's poor form and behaviour on her part. She appears not to realise that I could behave in exactly the same way, but tit-for-tat behaviour like that is a road to "hell".

Lweji short answer - yes.

Leaving on her tod in a pub is not a good idea, mainly 'cos she gets so pissed she has to be poured into a taxi, or carried to the tube. She becomes the perfect target for the unscrupulous.

I think, in part its due to her parents. Watching the two of them in action at a golf club/resturant is an embarrassment - there should be a law stopping 70 year olds trying to pull the waiting staff.

OP posts:
LastingLight · 20/02/2014 09:06

Maybe write her a letter: Dear DW, it really hurts me when you flirt with other men when we go out. I know you see it as a bit of fun but it makes me really uncomfortable. We are married and I love you very much but I don't feel this behaviour is appropriate. Would you consider not doing that any more, for my sake?

JeanSeberg · 20/02/2014 09:47

she gets so pissed she has to be poured into a taxi, or carried to the tube

It sounds like the drinking is the main issue and the flirting is an unacceptable by-product of this.

Sadly you're not going to tackle one without the other and you're probably not going to tell us that she wants help with her drinking or even admits there's a problem.

In your shoes I certainly wouldn't be going anywhere near the pub with her and make it clear that the drinking needs to be addressed otherwise you will be reconsidering your relationship.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 20/02/2014 09:48

This is the same woman you wrote about on the 'Money' board that got you into the financial soup and is now causing you to have palpitations about whether to trust her with a bank card again....

She has no respect for you OP.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 20/02/2014 09:52

Not sure about the message board etiquette but here's your Money Thread. She causes you mental anguish about everything, it seems.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 20/02/2014 09:54

"Can anyone give me a few useful phrases where I can express how uncomfortable it makes me in such a way that it can't be construed as an argument...."

This inability to express yourself for fear of having someone leap down your throat is known as 'walking on eggshells' and it's the usual response of a victim to an emotionally (or physically) abusive bully. Is your DW a bully OP?

Roussette · 20/02/2014 10:00

"I am not standing around like a twat whilst you Flirt for Britain with anyone in trousers up the pub. Next time you bugger off and do that, I will come up, make a scene and then we will go home".

Will that do?!

Original poster
mirtzapine · 20/02/2014 11:01

CogitoErgoSometimes I have suspected for a while that she is a bit of a bully. She's definitely financially abusive given the way she's treated the family finances.

Trouble is is that we are from two entirely different backgrounds. Mines army, hers is social worker parents. She uses that woolly liberal arts politically correct way that social workers talk in, I talk like my RSM loud, blunt, exact, ordered.

So I'm told that I sound like I'm starting a "fight". And it not just her, the amount of complaints I've had in the workplace that I sound argumentative or aggressive. Thing is though I don't see the point in wasting words, when I say something its for a purpose, short and to the point.

Its not the expressing myself I actually really have a problem with, I think its more my expressions and use of English.

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 20/02/2014 11:06

Maybe you do sound argumentative and aggressive? Maybe you are unreasonably worried about money? Maybe you are possessive and see infidelity and flirting when someone's just having a conversation?

Or maybe.... you're with the wrong person?

JeanSeberg · 20/02/2014 11:16

Back up a bit - you get lots of complaints at work?

Sounds like she could have a point but that apart you still don't seem to be very compatible.

But have you every thought there might be some truth in your colleagues' comments?

pumpkinsweetie · 20/02/2014 11:22

It depends what you mean by flirting?
I think everyone flirts, but some ways are not morally right.
If it is general chit chat and a fluttering of the lashes, let her get on with it, but anything more I would be calling her on it after walking out of the pub!

Original poster
mirtzapine · 20/02/2014 11:41

Well that made me feel a damn sight worse. Arguments are there for a purpose, to state a position and come to a reasoned resolution, to solve a problem when people have opposed viewpoints, well that's what i was taught about having an argument.

I've also noticed that trying to stress something as vital, essential or an urgent need in a strong tone is considered to be aggressive.

Your third point I will give due consideration too and review historic events from different perspectives.

Your final point, she's not completely right and not completely wrong, in the same way I am, with the money problems and the general dicking about its pushing me in the direction of wrong. But with with a sensitive diplomatic reasoning an adequate resolution could be found which will move us back in the direction of right.

OP posts:
JeanSeberg · 20/02/2014 11:52

Your army background does come shining through in that last post. Wink

Original poster
mirtzapine · 20/02/2014 11:58

JeanSeberg the word I used was amount not lots. And I was thinking of a job I had 15 years ago, where I worked with some very "sensitive" people. One example, I was in a meeting where a legal matter was being discussed. The company lawyer said "whose going to do the work" I said "your a bloody lawyer, earn your bloody money" she burst into tears. My phrasing was wrong.

There have been a couple of other incidents where I've told people to "Shut the Fuck up, Concentrate on what your fucking doing and remember we've got a deadline to meet". Again wrong phrasing, in one of those situations, the bloke I said it to had a hissy fit, complaind and yes we missed our deadline because of the dicking around with HR. It wasonly a couple of 100 thousand the company lost cos of the missed deadline and the penalty clause

OP posts:
TemperamentalAroundCorvids · 20/02/2014 12:13

mirtzapine I find that I cannot help getting louder and more strident when I am speaking about something that I feel is really important. This has affected my working relationships, and sometimes causes a problem in my private life. It's not that I haven't tried working on it - I have - but somehow if I don't include that element in my voice, I can't think what it is I want to say.

Someone was bound to come along and suggest that you might have Asperger's, or Asperger's traits. In this case I am that person! I think I have AS and that some of your behaviours and thoughts are similar to mine. (Currently awaiting results of my own assessment at 60+)

Uptheanty · 20/02/2014 12:20

Your wife isn't showing you any respect.

Actually, she's not respecting herself much either.

It is my guess that it's better for any discussion you try to initiate to turn into a fight. That way the waters are muddied nicely and your point is lost.

Your wife is minimising her behaviour.

Uptheanty · 20/02/2014 12:39

Also- if you swore at anyone ever in a meeting with the kind of tone you implied in your last post, then you should be fired.

JeanSeberg · 20/02/2014 12:48

Well you'd speak to me like that at work once and once only and I'd drag your arse over the coals so fast you wouldn't know what was going on.

What's your position? Why have you not been fired?

Original poster
mirtzapine · 20/02/2014 12:55

Nope, No Asperger's here. I may be structured, organised and disciplined, but I can also read people too. Some of the positives I've had in my career history is thanks from colleagues about how I can tell are having difficulties with their work, from their body language, tone of voice and behaviour and have given them the support, help and encouragement (and in some cases actually have done the work for them) to get past the difficulty.

I can also tell when someone is shirking cos they don't want to do something or making up an "excuse" to avoid doing something. As an example, I was preparing the department I managed for an ISO 9002 Audit, so I was pretty much heads down getting on with it. I'd noticed one of my team wasn't doing much at all. So I trotted over asked what he was up to. He told me he was waiting for an important email from another colleague. I said to him forget email, he's shite at responding go and talk to him... tell you what why don't I show you where his desk is and introduce you. That solved that problem. BTW my department was the only one to pass the ISO Audit, given that the three other departments in IT failed it was aphyrric victory.

Uptheanty I find the points you made to be very interesting and well worth bearing in mind.

OP posts:
Jan45 · 20/02/2014 12:56

Man up and tell her straight, if she carries on taking the piss out of you, the marriage is over.