How do I respond to this email from DH?

[catgirl1976]

DH and I have some problems. I think a few people on here might remember some of them and some of MN have the strong opinion that DH is not good for me.

However, I do love him. But I am exhausted and unhappy.

I tried to talk to him last night and this morning found the email below in my inbox.

I just don't know how to reply, or what I want. Well I do. I want things back the way they were and I want a partner.

Does anyone have any advice on how I should respond?

Hello Cat,

It guts me to see you so unhappy. It really wasn't the intention. You see there was a time when we had fun and I thought it rocked. So much so I didn't want anything to interrupt that. But you wanted a baby and reluctantly I acquiesced. Thank the stars I did. Look at DS! He is incredible and amazing.

That doesn't help you though. (Actually it should but lets move on from that).

You are right, I have changed. I have grown older, and also commercially very cynical. My entire life I have been looking for happiness, I have actually found it in our DS. I never expected this and certainly didn't ask for it, but he has had a profound effect on my outlook on life.

Its a crime that you were forced (in part by me I guess) back to work so early. I do agree you have drawn the shitty end of a long stick. The answer is simple, that being get a new job. However I fear you will be unhappy wherever you are. Certainly XX despite its shortcomings is far better than any company I have had the grace to work for. I also admit that's not saying much.

You are 100% Correct in that I could do more around the house. I hope you acknowledge the increased effort I have been putting into this. An example would be tidying up even though I have DS. Yes I could do more, but I am sure you can relate to the amount of demands he makes on one and given that its easy to procrastinate. However that said I will increase my productivity and I hope it makes life easier for you.

For me though the nub is that I feel as out of place as you do. I have said repeatedly that I would love to do your job, hell I have even advised you on it (Not that you really need it, you are more than competent, I was just trying to help). The fact of the matter is that at the ripe old age of forty I have no other trade than selling. Between you, me and the gatepost, I cannot and will not return to the environment that I used to inhabit. I cant. Call it burnt out, mid life crisis, or laziness. I simply cannot do that anymore. As I have stated, i would rather clean toilets.

Maybe I should clean toilets. It would be fairer of course to contribute financially. However the one thing that does bring me a modicum of prestige is DS. I have worked so hard (and enjoyed it, a luxury you don't have in your vocation) to help and develop him. I think I am just in being proud of my Son, regardless of bias.

You are right, I do need friends and interests outside this house. However in my experience the Muppets I worked with tended to be the opposite of my outlook in every way. A notable exception would be XX. That said I don't expect to find many “XX's” in any job I stand a snowballs chance of getting.

I can see how hard you are working and pushing yourself. Its obvious that the gas tank it empty and its not sustainable. I will do whatever I can to help, with recourse to the above. I cannot fix your career.

I cannot be the the dude you fell in love with either. I'm older, slower (still quick) and jaded. But the two aspects of my life where I raise a smile are (in order) TDS and you. You are exhausted, mentally, physically and emotionally. Its not surprising give the amount of responsibility on your shoulders. It means everything to me to be able to help, but DS means everything to me too, and I want to have a real, fundamental impact on him and be the father I never had. In a nutshell that means forsaking everything for him.

I don't want to forsake you though. However if we are at the point where you simply don't see why you married me, or that dude that looked you up (and down) in halls then I get it. I am not a parasite and will bow out with as much honour as I can muster.

I love you and always will, but I cant stand seeing you this unhappy. I do believe we can grow from this position, however I respect your feelings too and If that isn't a decision you subscribe to I understand.

I Love you, and pray that is enough.

x

De lurking.

Please listen to Armadale.

Gt a solicitor ASAP and get your narrative in place.

If it all goes suddenly well. Then great. But prepare yourself.

God luck.

It is really blamey. He could do it, but you must facilitate. You must support, check, blah blah blah. In short, remain responsible for it all.

I do think that he knows his number may be up - hence the waffle at the end about wanting to support you. Easy to say the words.

He now wants you to do all the work in improving him with notes and constant vigilance as you say all the responsibility

I thought about doing some sort of rota with my two teens and housework but decided they should just start opening their eyes as to a DH needing one...

Oh my dear god.

Don't send him this. He only has to think 'where did that come from?' and google a tiny bit of the 'new' material to find this thread instantly (if course he could find his own emails but if he doesnt' know MN is on your radar then there's less risk he'd do that).

That second email had me spitting.
"I need that support or constant checking" Um no. He is supposed to be supporting YOU here. He is saying that you can become his parent and check up on him, but all the responsibilty is still yours. That is not the response of someone who wants to become an equal partner in a strong marriage.

As for "Ill pin it over my computer if so i don't “forget”
Just fuck off basically.
It shouldn't be over his computer because he shouldn't be spending all day on his computer and dipping into house stuff as an aside. The list should be pinned up in the kitchen/playroom/your DS's room, because that is where he will be basing his days running the house, and ONLY THEN when all tasks are completed going to his computer for his leisure time.
As for "forget". Why is it in inverted commas? It's not up for debate. You do it = you didn't forget. You don't do it = you did forget or you couldn't be arsed in the first place

Honestly, this is so, so wrong. I can't bear to think of you having to deal with this man's self-absorbed bullshit, day in, day out. And I don't even know you!

He is still making excuses (I would suggest that he doesn't know the meaning of the word exhausted) and he is still making you responsible for a lot but if he follows through with the promise to follow a timetable, will that make a significant difference to you? Do you feel it's worth putting to the test?

I think the main difference to your previous threads is that you really sound like you have had enough and I am wondering if this offer on his part has come as too little, too late?

tea I know, it is horrific isn't it? I don't generally get myself in a knot about MNers situations, it is after all just words on a screen. But this just chills me to the bone, I think largely because cat has been so accepting of the crap this dickhead has meted out.

Email back,
'No. I am not your fucking parent. Grow up. Write your own list. Do stuff. And stop making it all MY fault.'

Genuinely, how would live be any worse without him in it?

He doesnt' appear (and I've not read your backstory, so this is going PURELY on the three emails on here) to support you or your son financially, practically or emotionally.

This is not 'I need your support right now because I'm going through a depressive phase' this is 'This is me with my depression under control but I'm still not going to do anything about improving our lives'. So basically, things can only get worse.

Get a solicitor, get your family to take on more childcare 'to free DH up to get healthy/a job', get your finances in order privately, get out.

Yeah I like Bird in the Wings email, but I'd be tempted to make it shorter:

GROW UP, YOU TWAT.

honestly, I can't imagine how you put up with it.

Honestly - tell him to fuck off - I had a DH with major MH problems who still managed to be a better SAHD to 3 kids than your DH with a bit of depression and shit loads of self indulgence.

Cat -

I haven't read your previous threads, but please, please, please listen to the advice about getting legal advice and setting up the appropriate narrative.

If (and, TBH, I hope, when) the time comes to separate, you want it to be very clear that this man was a selfish waste of space who sat on his arse doing nothing and not a main carer.

All the things about doing more around the house are great, if they turn the relationship around and make it happy. But I fear that what is far more likely is that your 'D'H does just enough to make him look better in the eyes of the court.

When, as I suspect it will, him doing more fails, you need to find, beg or borrow the money to start outsourcing some of these tasks. It needs to be bloody, bloody clear that he's not running the home. Your responses to him need to be making this clear as well.

Please, please get some proper advice. I am very scared he is going to utterly play you.

How practical is it for you to leave him/kick him out?

Tell him to get a job, for at least 3 days a week. I think I know what a cock lodger is now.

Yuk. His response is foul- snide, cruel and mocking for the most part. He's only wiling to try if you put in all the headwork, and stroke his ego. He needs constants reminding, that's nice for you, having to constantly nag him. How can you respect this weasel? It always comes back to him, he's turned your request for him to help into an instructions that it is actually YOU that needs to help HIM!

I wouldn't have replied to his original email. My response would have been to listen to what he is saying and leave him. When someone tells you who they are - listen. He's telling you in no uncertain terms that all of this is your fault, that he will not change, that he is happy as things are, and if you demand change, then he expects you to put in all the work in for it (further exhausting yourself, I think he knows that it's easier to do it yourself than to micro manage someone else to do it, and he doesn't care that having to do that will make you resent him, he's happy to give you the role of adult and he the child- where's the prestige in that?

Oh god I hadn't seen his reply. He's just awful, Cat :( I'm really sorry but I cannot see any way you can make this work. He's not going to change, he's going to grind you down and grind you down. And then you'll end up where my friend is, where she has coparented in this cock-eyed way for so long that she can see no other way. It's appalling to be around. Don't be her.

And actually you're not helping him. You're enabling to live this half-life. I'm not blaming you but you're the only person who can change this. Certainly there's no impetus whatsoever for him to change

What BirdintheWings said is perfect.

This is my draft reply to his second e-mail

I appreciate that you want this to work.

But what I am saying is that I am exhausted and everything has been my responsibility for too long and I can’t do it anymore.

You have come back to me basically saying you will help me, but only if that becomes my responsibility too.

You want to improve but you need my help to do that

I need to remind you what you should be doing

I need to get more friends

I should have been more insistent about going out this weekend

You need me to support you and constantly check

A rota would be a start, but if it becomes my responsibility to enforce it and my fault when it doesn’t happen (because I haven’t checked, or reminded you or supported you enough) then how is that going to help me with the overwhelming pressure of responsibility that I feel?

It isn’t just the housework. It’s the attitude that goes behind it and I am worried that it is too entrenched and cannot change. That attitude is that everything is my responsibility.

Your first e-mail basically said that:

It was my choice to have a baby. You didn’t want one. So my responsibility there. My fault that life is no longer one big party. But hey, as it turned out you like being a dad. And I should thank my lucky stars for that.

That hey, yes, I have a shitty job and have had to go back to work. But you’ve had worse jobs and, fuck it, I can always get another one. So what the hell am I complaining about? I should actually be grateful. You can’t fix my career – that’s my responsibility.

You’ve gone from doing nothing to do something. I shouldn’t still be complaining, I should shut the fuck up and be grateful for the bit you are doing.

You don’t want to go back to work. Why should you? You didn’t like it. And why should you do anything you don’t want to do? You could clean toilets, but we all know you are better than that. God, you might even have to mix with people you don’t like. You could clean toilets, you could contribute financially, but you won’t.

So forgive me if I am not convinced a rota is going to fix everything. It’s something. But this goes far deeper than that.

What I need is you to be a full partner to me. To take responsibility and to WANT to.

I don't think I've ever read something so pathetic cat - his emails, not yours.

He wants to change but you need to do it for him? And then what? He's writing you emails about how you've become a nagging wife and the pressure and constant checking is hurting his feelings?

What a joke.

YOU need to help him.

YOU need to support him.

YOU even need to make sure he gets out of the house.

You're absolutely right - it's all your responsibility according to him.

FFS just leave. Leave leave leave.

OMG - his reply is awful!!!
He sounds like a nasty, manipulative bastard really!!!

You deserve so much better than this

you can't carry him much longer, you risk not being able to carry yourself.

he's very emotionally manipulative, and very childish.

yes he is depressed, i have empathy for that, but you can only help so much.

when resentment kicks in, on both sides, it is very hard to come back from, without a major role change on one or both sides, or at least an honest strong 'startover'

it sounds as though this will just go on and on.

He should leave, and get some counselling.

That e-mail is much better, you aren't stroking his ego and you sound properly cross.

How he responds to it will tell you an awful lot.

What I hear is a skilled salesperson selling a dream in order to carry on without having to do any real changing / thinking. I work for politicians, it's like their speechwriters have been giving him lessons.

That response. THAT RESPONSE. It's the most unsubtly passive aggressive thing I've ever seen. He isn't even intelligent about it! Plus I think you should dump him simply because of his constant and grating use of "should of". It's should have!

Goodness me. I'd be tempted to write back "I already have one child. I simply do not have enough hours in the day to check, nag and cajole you to do what you should be doing anyway. If you feel you are unable to figure out independently how you can adequately contribute to our home and relationship (ie do more than childcare 2 days a week), I think we are done."

Send your last email draft, and put this at the end instead:

I want to separate. I think it would be the best thing for both of us. I'd no longer be being treated like shit and taken advantage of, and you'd have to get off your arse and actually look after yourself (and maybe even your son). What I would have liked is for you to be a full partner to me. To take responsibility and to WANT to. But I know deep down that that will never happen, and I'm sick of wasting precious time on waiting.