How do I respond to this email from DH?

[catgirl1976]

DH and I have some problems. I think a few people on here might remember some of them and some of MN have the strong opinion that DH is not good for me.

However, I do love him. But I am exhausted and unhappy.

I tried to talk to him last night and this morning found the email below in my inbox.

I just don't know how to reply, or what I want. Well I do. I want things back the way they were and I want a partner.

Does anyone have any advice on how I should respond?

Hello Cat,

It guts me to see you so unhappy. It really wasn't the intention. You see there was a time when we had fun and I thought it rocked. So much so I didn't want anything to interrupt that. But you wanted a baby and reluctantly I acquiesced. Thank the stars I did. Look at DS! He is incredible and amazing.

That doesn't help you though. (Actually it should but lets move on from that).

You are right, I have changed. I have grown older, and also commercially very cynical. My entire life I have been looking for happiness, I have actually found it in our DS. I never expected this and certainly didn't ask for it, but he has had a profound effect on my outlook on life.

Its a crime that you were forced (in part by me I guess) back to work so early. I do agree you have drawn the shitty end of a long stick. The answer is simple, that being get a new job. However I fear you will be unhappy wherever you are. Certainly XX despite its shortcomings is far better than any company I have had the grace to work for. I also admit that's not saying much.

You are 100% Correct in that I could do more around the house. I hope you acknowledge the increased effort I have been putting into this. An example would be tidying up even though I have DS. Yes I could do more, but I am sure you can relate to the amount of demands he makes on one and given that its easy to procrastinate. However that said I will increase my productivity and I hope it makes life easier for you.

For me though the nub is that I feel as out of place as you do. I have said repeatedly that I would love to do your job, hell I have even advised you on it (Not that you really need it, you are more than competent, I was just trying to help). The fact of the matter is that at the ripe old age of forty I have no other trade than selling. Between you, me and the gatepost, I cannot and will not return to the environment that I used to inhabit. I cant. Call it burnt out, mid life crisis, or laziness. I simply cannot do that anymore. As I have stated, i would rather clean toilets.

Maybe I should clean toilets. It would be fairer of course to contribute financially. However the one thing that does bring me a modicum of prestige is DS. I have worked so hard (and enjoyed it, a luxury you don't have in your vocation) to help and develop him. I think I am just in being proud of my Son, regardless of bias.

You are right, I do need friends and interests outside this house. However in my experience the Muppets I worked with tended to be the opposite of my outlook in every way. A notable exception would be XX. That said I don't expect to find many “XX's” in any job I stand a snowballs chance of getting.

I can see how hard you are working and pushing yourself. Its obvious that the gas tank it empty and its not sustainable. I will do whatever I can to help, with recourse to the above. I cannot fix your career.

I cannot be the the dude you fell in love with either. I'm older, slower (still quick) and jaded. But the two aspects of my life where I raise a smile are (in order) TDS and you. You are exhausted, mentally, physically and emotionally. Its not surprising give the amount of responsibility on your shoulders. It means everything to me to be able to help, but DS means everything to me too, and I want to have a real, fundamental impact on him and be the father I never had. In a nutshell that means forsaking everything for him.

I don't want to forsake you though. However if we are at the point where you simply don't see why you married me, or that dude that looked you up (and down) in halls then I get it. I am not a parasite and will bow out with as much honour as I can muster.

I love you and always will, but I cant stand seeing you this unhappy. I do believe we can grow from this position, however I respect your feelings too and If that isn't a decision you subscribe to I understand.

I Love you, and pray that is enough.

x

Joinyourplayfellows. As I said, I don't know the backstory, ,just going on these 2 emails. I feel like she is diluting her message when it is about different standards. Sorry but there is a lot of that in there. She would not be happy living in my house either! However, I do cook all meals, do shopping and laundry so there's enough clean pants and socks for people to have every day. These are the basics. He is not doing the basics and this is what he needs to do. Cleaning the inside of a cupboard is seriously diluting what she's saying.

(as is 'cleaning the way I did at Christmas'). He needs to clean, but not the way she does it.

Cat your posts on MN regarding your husband always get a huge response and it is always unanimously in support of you and disgust and contempt for the way your husband treats you. It must be clear how totally unacceptable everyone thinks his behaviour is and I really hope that helps you to make the decision that changes your life for the better. I don't know whether heis capable of changing enough or not. But he has to do a lot more than he is suggesting in that email and he needs to understand that.

I think the pp may have a point - yes he should do the stuff to a high standard, but if her standards are at the high end of normal (and we know from threads on here that there's a wide range of views on how often towels get washed, say) then he will probably use that to try to rebut what she's saying. He will try to argue that she's being unreasonably fussy and divert the discussion in that direction. Strategically pitching what she's asking for deliberately slightly lower than she might do herself (while still, obviously, WAY above what he's actually doing, which is completely inadequate) could protect her against that particular red herring.

She said cleaning the cupboard fronts, not the inside.

Which means a basic wipe down with a cloth.

(as is 'cleaning the way I did at Christmas'). He needs to clean, but not the way she does it.

I think her point is that the way he does it is to leave all the hard bits to her and just do the bare minimum.

He was 3 DAYS A WEEK to play computer games AT HER EXPENSE.

I think she's fully entitled to tell him that he needs to clean to her standards or get a fucking job.

Join, I think you are mixing up someone advising her how to make her message stronger with someone actually defending him and the status quo. I don't think anyone's doing that.

I think the level of housework is pretty irrelevant, it's not like he is TRYING and she is saying he needs to do it better, he is sitting around playing computer games and doing the bare minimum.

No, I'm not getting confused.

Merry thinks he has a point.

Thank you all so, so much

There is some fantastic advice on here and Callins interpretation of what his e-mail actually says is really, really resounding with me.

I am going to keep reading that. I am tempted to send it to him (but not letting him know it's from here - here is a refuge for me)

I sent him my e-mail with the last 2 bits removed

I will let you know how he responds.

Reading his e-mails through all of your eyes has really, really helped me see this for what it is.

You all have know idea how much you are helping me. I just can't thank you enough.

I'm a SAHM myself and THAT IS MY JOB! I may not be in paid employment but that's my job!

It's me job to ensure the hours I spend running the household and being a parent (both can be done at the same time) equate to the hours and intensity of DH's paid employment. By doing this, his time at home is leisure time and he's less stressed and we're a strong family unit with quality family time.

Fundamentally, that's it in a nutshell for you. Your DH isn't ensure that the work he puts into running your home and parenting equates to the intensity and hours you do. All you want is equality in that, not a hard concept to grasp.

I have had a reply The below is from DH following my e-mail

I accept that I can and should do more, I intend to. Part of the problem recently is that I have been exhausted as you what with DS not sleeping. Sure I could catch up on sleep when he is at nursery but I often find I cant sleep even then. That however is not an excuse and moving forward I will do the things you point out.

Actually I too am rather depressed, that's why I take anti-depressants. However its a double edged sword. Whilst they keep you from the worst of it, they also make you incredibly complacent. I want to improve and I need your help to do that. That simply means reminding me what I should be doing such as you have with regards the house etc.

I have almost become institutionalised at home. You are right I should have friends, we both should. (You really don't have an outside life either). I am however at a loss how to remedy this. We should do more as a couple and we need to make sure we do, even when one of us cant be arsed. You should of been more insistent this weekend about us going out and I should of been more enthusiastic. It being winter and lack of transport doesn't help, but again that is no excuse.

I will sit down with you tonight and we will draw up a rota of what needs doing and when and I will follow it every week. Ill pin it over my computer if so i don't “forget”. It might be useful to include other stuff not including housework as well that you want me to remain focused on.

It is so easy for me to slip into (Wake up, go on PC, do minimum, look after DS then its the weekend) that I need that support or constant checking. Hopefully I will be able to quickly get out of the habit and get into a routine.

I love you and want this to work. I also desperately want to help you with your own depression. That said I do agree a large part of it is both mental and physical exhaustion.

I love you, miss you terribly. I want to be the person you used to know. I just need help remembering who that was.

Cat, you really are wasting your time with this little shit.

I urge you to get counseling to find out why you have put up with him for so long. He is telling you he is not going to change.

Catgirl I remember you when you first started posting and you are an entirely different person now. Lots of it is for the better,. You have have far more humour and humility than at first and you are much more open as a person but you also sound a bit defeated. You have lost your identity and this person is not who you are. I don't know what the answer is, I'm not going to tell you to leave him but something has to change. What do you want to do?

Fuck me. It's still really blamey and putting all of the responsibility at my door isn't it?

You have your baby in nursery when his father is at home doing fuck all?

WHAT?

Excuse me for not understanding here, but what does he ACTUALLY do to benefit your household?

All I can see is an entitled cocklodger claiming to be a wonderful father WHEN HE IS SITTING ON HIS ARSE PLAYING COMPUTER GAMES WHILST HIS SON IS AT NURSERY?!

Uggggggggh. Just ugh. This dude needs to grow up.

Prosecco

I was fucking awful when I joined MN

I have learned an awful lot on here.

You weren't awful! You were lively and opinionated and ready to take on the world if I remember correctly.

Fucking hell, well he might be alarmingly depressed but yet can somehow rouse himself to spin out an impressively passive aggressive email response in next to no time

Reread Armadale's post again too. Her advice is spot on IMO.

If you want to be his mother than carry on cos he's never ever going to grow up and be a man.

Well, there you have it - you have told him you are absolutely overwhelmed with everything and he has decided to pile on some more jobs:

You should be more insistent. You should remind him more. You should have more friends. You should spend more time with him. You should support him and check in with him.

He is fucking awful.

If only he could get a job writing those

cat, I've not read your previous reads but am sitting here with my mouth open in disbelief.

His second email is, if possible, even worse than the first. He is making EVERYTHING your responsibility. 'You should', 'you need to help me' - wtf??

Please, please, take the get-out clause he offered you. You cannot live like this. He is a manipulative, lazy, too-clever-by-half parasite. I'm utterly disgusted by him.

He will never, ever change. This has nothing to do with different standards of cleaning. This is all about his breathtaking sense of entitlement. This is not love, it's hell.

It's still all poor me, it's so hard for me, oh and you're crap too by the way.
It's still ALL your responsibility.
He's a self entitled, selfish cunt and he will never ever change.