Can't be bothered to name change. Discovered emails on DH's phone...

[JonesTheSteam]

He's been having an affair with someone he works with...

I felt angry initially. Now just feel numb... :-(

Hand holding please...

I hope your counselling session went well. You are not a mug at all. I argued with DD about book day today too! Up and down the country, it's the same thing!

I think you are doing brilliantly and the fact that you and your DH had coffee and chats and were normal on Monday, when you had the day off, augers well. He is doing his bit. Most men wouldn't - they would just leave.

I think your thread is great because you are so resilient. Don't forget that many woman who post in this Relationships section have their own axe to grind and their advice won't serve you well.

I thoroughly believe your husband deserves another chance and please don't let the naysayers here grind you down. Be angry, yes - but only for what's inside of you and not from what you think other people think you should feel.

Google maps of the offices? I think he is trying really, really hard. Give him a chance. Give yourself the chance to have a better life with him. I believe 100% that you can do this.

Hello Jones it's been good and sad at the same time to read your updates. I'm sorry it's so tough for you. At least here on mn you can vent and no one will mind :)

I really don't have much to add to the excellent advice except boringly repeat like the tired, insomniac-y pregnant woman that I am that time will help and you need to be easy on yourself. It could take months or years to get through this. The coffee on Monday I really liked the sound of. It was as if the two of you were dating again and getting to know one another as if it were the start of a new relationship.

The only other thought was your comment about counselling and potential subliminal dread that day. I totally relate to this. Counselling is bloody hard work and emotionally exhausting. You have to confront things you would rather not. On your counselling days be uber nice and gentle to yourself and try to not have anything else too stressful planned as it takes so much out of you - no more book days in store I hope :) . Sometimes after my sessions I sleep the rest of the day.

What strikes me again and again is how brave and strong you are. Many would have caved by now but your are doing what is right for you. Lots of and and good karma is heading your way.

It was ok. I thought. Felt comfortable with her.

I had a huge argument with DH last night though. Behaved like a complete bitch.

I just don't get why he is staying here when I am such a cow. Surely even being on his own is better than being with me.

Think our main issue is communication. I'm over emotional and I react badly to everything so therefore he can't speak to me.

I can't actually think of a time when he has really tried to tell me of his feelings where I haven't been supportive.

Until you count the recent I don't love you. Obviously didn't support that.

He has only really opened up twice (about a redundancy and then his dad's death) and I was very supportive both times.

Other than that he basically hasn't opened up about any thing.

Starting to think that we should never have got married if he can't communicate with me at all.

I've been kidding myself we were happy. He obviously wasn't.

I can't get through today. I can't get through this. I'm having thoughts about just leaving and going away and leaving everyone behind to have a happier life without me...

He has doubts all centered around not being able to speak to me about his feelings. If he has doubts about whether he wants me or not then there is just no point.

Been lurking. Here's a hand to hold. Not great with words but just wanted you to know someone reading x

Jones, long time lurker here.

I can really feel your pain. I was in exactly the same boat as you 4 years ago. Again H went with OW at work.

We are still together. I thought I would never, ever say this. But things are good. It's been a long long road.

If you feel like I felt, maybe subconsciously you are acting like you are, to test your H's reaction. Hoping for that massive declaration of love and forgiveness, for his stupid actions. Mine never came as that declaration. I pushed, shouted, sobbed, trying to drive him away. He, on the other hand, did as much shouting and sobbing, but he didn't go. For a long long while, his affair just consumed my whole life. Trying to piece every movement, reaction and conversation...it was so exhausting.

You may not stay together - if you both don't want to. But if he is showing signs of remorse and demonstrating that he is willing to change then give it a chance. It's not easy, I think it's easier to split sometimes.

FWIW, the OW still works for the same company. I hate that fact. Especially as in the first year, she blatantly tried to sway my H, by texting and continuing to pursue. He did try the 'well, I have to work with her, so I have to speak to her' - now, there is only formal emails and no other communication. I have access to all means of communications. He has consciously tried to keep me posted on his goings-on at work, and whilst I'll never be the same person pre-affair, I'm as confident a person as I was before.

My H is not the most communicative person in the world. Culturally different to me, but our relationship has resumed to the one we had before the whole sordid affair. I judge him from the man I've known for the whole of my adult life, and try not to pin him down on those couple of months he was a complete bastard.

Hope my post gives you so comfort, and hope.

Me too Jones. You sound so sad:(

:(

I might get a roasting for saying this but I think men struggle to communicate emotions and feelings. Particularly British guys. Of course you get some who do talk things out but I think there is huge cultural pressure on the whole stiff upper lip and always having to be the strong silent stereotype (that apparently women fall for in droves )

It doesn't excuse at all what your husband did, but perhaps a positive outcome of all of this is that he finally learns how to communicate with you properly. Do you feel he is committed to making this change and committed to you and fixing the relationship? Or is he saying you are over emotional and can't talk to you (which is totally unfair to you btw)?

Hi Jones,

Just to let you know I'm thinking of you - really glad you felt comfortable with the counsellor. As someone else said (sorry didn't clock the name) it's a grieving process and you will feel up/down etc.

I'm sure wanting to run away is a common feeling in situations like this and no one would blame you for it. Staying strong and all these strong emotions must be exhausting.

Oh the urge to run away so many of us know so well! You are an amazing woman Jones. You should be proud of yourself.

I wonder if he is struggling to communicate his unhappiness because he wasn't actually unhappy with you but with life itself? No one can be happy all the time and life will always bring disappointments and challenges and its how you cope with these that is important - many cheaters use the excitement and ego strokes that come with affairs as a coping mechanism.

Can you take a few days away for yourself? There is no harm in doing that. A mini break just for you.

You didn't do this Jones, stop blaming yourself. If he didn't want to get shouted at then he shouldn't have crapped all over your marraige. Stay strong, angry is a necessary feeling as well as all the other feelings you are going through.

I'm so sad that you keep blaming yourself, Jones. I know it's so difficult to accept but irrationality IS the rational response in a situation like yours. When we are monumentally betrayed in this way (and I've been betrayed and done the betraying so I've been on both sides of this) we put the betrayed in an unmanageable position. The same person we turn to for support is the same person that is hurting us and causing us to need that support, and is also the same person having their own crisis (however selfishly) and requiring support. It's just totally impossible. Plenty of people just fall apart and break down at times like this. And anger is the one and only psychological crutch that can help us get through it at some points. Anger, however ugly, is essentially a strengthening emotion, designed to give us impetus and power to change situations which hurt us, otherwise we would just sit in a corner sobbing til death.

Do not blame yourself for your anger. It is telling you something important. Of course it's also a barrier to clear, positive communication but it does fade. What's vitally important is that he and you see it as a consequence of his actions (WHICH IT IS) and not something to do with you.

What you are going through now is really painful to see because it's very recognizable as part of what's glibly called 'the script'. People who cheat will find ways of making it not their fault, and it sounds like 'not being able to communicate with you' is your version of blaming you for the affair. This is a toxic but common thing to do as he sorts through his 'reasons' and tries to make the infidelity 'make sense'.

If you could be objective about this, as we can from the outside, you would see quite clearly that you know you have always supported him when he has opened up to you. You would see that you have communicated for most of your relationship with the normal back and forth of a married couple. The point he stopped communicating was about having an affair and that was his fault entirely.

You are not 'over' emotional. Your emotion is in direct correlation to how much he has hurt you. There will be periods when you can talk calmly and periods when you can't.

I would suspect his difficulty 'opening up' is directly related to having an affair in the first place and is what he should be addressing. That it is an issue of compartmentalization and lack of emotional openness in general about him, and absolutely nothing to do with you.

There are lots of books out there that can help through this stage, I hope you are getting as much support as possible. Big hugs.

Also, Jones. I think if you do want to run away, you should. The most important thing you can do in my opinion as I've said is to nurture an independent life outside of him during this time and find support and self-worth and joy from others, work and recreation that does not revolve around him or anything to do with him. If you want to go on holiday alone or with a friend, do it. you deserve it.

Jones you sound so up and down, but that is totally to be expected.

Don't make any decision to give up at this stage, maybekkeep a diary of how you feel today, and come back and read it on a few days and see if you feel the same way, your feelings on what to do will change daily, even hourly.

Brilliant posts by tessa as ever.

One thing that struck me too was your reluctance to take some time out from the situation, for very understandable reasons. You are making heroic efforts in that regard to try and make everything OK again. Please do be sure to take care of your health in amongst all this. None of this situation is your fault.

You're going through a massive grieving process and you're finding that your rock and foundation, ie dh, isn't at all the person you thought he was. You're both having to rediscover who he is and there is no guarantee from the sound of it that you will like or love what you find, will you be able to be with him etc. They are all huge questions with no quick or easy answer and you are dealing with a life change that was most certainly not part of the agreement.

It is no wonder you are battling through every day and your emotions are all over the place. It would be really beneficial for you to have something to look forward to, a nice break somewhere beautiful and tranquil to your favourite spot for a week or two or however long you need. Recharging is all part of the process and time away from the person and the situation may help you review and process more.

So in a long winded way as holiday for you would be great if you can manage it. Something nice to focus on (do you feel you have anything fun planned on the horizon?).

I just wanted to say - if you aren't emotional about this, you would be walking away. Please give yourself a break, maybe a few days away and be kind to yourself.

Of course you are shouting at him, but I doubt it's anything he doesn't really deserve. Moving forward is going to take time. I think he's probably always found communication difficult and he won't change overnight. That isn't a criticism of you, just that changing behaviour that's always been there is a long process.

Sorry, I mean 'fun' in the loosest sense. Something nice you can do for yourself that you would look forward to just to break the routine and give you respite from the situation for a bit?

Jones, I've just read all your posts. I'm so sorry you've had your heart broken. Your reaction seems reasonable for the shock you've had.

I am struggling not to blame myself to be honest.

I think that part of the anger I'm directing at him is because I am struggling to see why he has chosen to stick it out. It's my self esteem thing. Whoever wrote earlier that I am testing his reactions is probably right. I want some sort of huge declaration of love. But that isn't his way, that's mine. But I am still struggling to deal with this without it. I am still smarting from his comments last night but I know deep down that I have always been there for him when he has needed emotional support. I've thought of other occasions when I have as well other than the two I mentioned...

I am also struggling to get through my day but just have one school left and then I can go home.

I think we need to take some time out, even if it's only agreeing not to talk about 'this' for a few days and just chill out a bit.

By the time I'd driven to work this morning, I'd practically sat down at the table tonight and told him I want a divorce in my head. Having a two way conversation in my car with myself!

I've calmed down a little now. Just back to extreme sadness.

You ladies are all wonderful. If I could do flowers and cake on my phone, I would...

That was a bit waffly. Sorry on phone...

I understand, jones. Do you tend to self-blame in life a bit generally or is that quite rare for you?

Sorry you're so sad. I'm very impressed with how you're dealing with it. You're right, you might need a bit of time off from the high emotion of it.

Could I quietly, gently keep suggesting that you stay open to methods of relaxation, support and time out that do not involve him too? Self-esteem is best supported through a myriad of support systems, that way if something terrible happens (affair, redundancy, ill health, bereavement) there are elements that remain strong and there and unaffected by the tragedy.

When you talk about being confused as to why he would stick it out, you're right, that does sound like testing the strength and veracity of his claims, and it a completely natural and wise thing to do. Try not to get dragged into his POV too much though, OP. This often happens with infidelity because we are so desperate to understand the WHYs and HOWs of what happened that w try and see everything through our partner's eyes. It's his job to address all that, and to tell you about it, but it's your job to see clearly through your own eye. To keep questioning why YOU want to stay, what sort of life YOU want to live in the future and to protect yourself from every mood swing he has and stupid thing he says by having your own life, work and confidence built up to the point that he is a consideration, but not the defining centre of your world with the power to crush or lift your day with just a glance. That will takes ages, obviously, I'm just looking to the future.

Jones, the issue as far as I can see is that even if he isn't happy and he felt as though you weren't putting enough effort into the relationship, he chose to go with someone else. He didn't tell you, or try and put some effort into your relationship instead.

You really aren't to blame because there is no excuse for his actions.

I hope you can work through things if that is what you both desire.

Not waffle :)

I'm trying to not write angry posts about your dh as that's not very helpful for you. So my apologies if I am overly ranty. But honestly, it isn't you. He had chance after chance to open up to you and if something bothered him that much he should have raised it with you and discussed it as an adult, not behave the way he did. There is no excuse for what he did to you and you are absolutely not at fault for this scenario.

He realises now that what he has with you and your dcs is so much more meaningful than the fling. You are his wife and mother of his children. The tarnished sheen of an affair is nothing to what he has at home. It is so understandable and heartbreaking to see why you feel at rock bottom. But he's chosen to stay because you really are worth a million times more than what he was risking it all for. He must be terrified you'd (quite legitimately) order him out the house. You hold all the cards, not him.

Do you think a grand gesture would help though or would you see it as empty right now? There is one thing for sure, he's going to have to change to accommodate the new relationship. It can't go back to what it was.

Lots of or maybe [tea] for you if you are driving.