I'm so upset and low, Please give me some advice, DH said he's done nothing wrong and it's my fault.

[prettyhackedoff]

Name changed for this. I don't really feel that 'DH' is especially 'D' at the moment.
Apologies that it is long, don't want to drip feed.
We have been together 23 years, married 16 and have 2 kids under 12.
Over the last few months DH has become increasingly critical of me, irritable, short tempered, quick to have an argument about the smallest things. He would also have a go at me about the state of the house, how untidy it is, how unclean it is and how 'he can't live like that any more' (which I took to mean the state of the house). Fair enough, the house has got very cluttered. I work long hours too, I've been getting up at 6 and leaving the house before everyone is awake, then driving almost an hour before getting to work and then putting in a 7 or 12 hour shift in a very stressful job. I find it really hard to have the energy after work, then taking kids to activities, cooking tea, organising everything, etc, doing my CPD in the evenings on line when the kids are finally in bed, to then clean and tidy very much.
DH does no no housework or cleaning.
As the months went by his behaviour got worse, I looked back and realised that the timing coincided with him taking on a new additional management role at work. Since October he had been staying later in the evenings at work (telling me it was because of work). He also seemed more irritable and distracted. I also noticed he was glued to his mobile phone, taking it to the loo, whenever I picked it up, he would snatch it off me, if anyone rang or texted him he'd be jumpy. Naturally I became very suspicious and, asked him on multiple occasions what he was hiding, if something was wrong etc. He would then get very angry, tell me how horrible I was to be suspicious, how terrible it was that I didn't trust him.
He had a week's annual leave with me and the kids at October half term, and he became very irritable, moaning about how 'horrible I was to him, what a mess the house was', etc, and causing arguments.
This happened again during a week's leave he took in December.
The Christmas holidays have been unbearable. My work contract finished just before Christmas and I am now unemployed, and was lucky enough to spend 2 weeks with the kids. DH was dreadful, moaning, irritable, starting arguments and swearing at me. One day the kids and I had a lazy day at home . I had severe sciatica, (he knew this, as we had discussed how much pain I was in). He came home from work late and had a go at me, starting a row about me 'being too lazy to even load the dishwasher'. I had been in so much pain I had spent most of the day in bed or lying on the sofa.
Today I looked at his mobile phone bill for the last month (which is sent to our joint email account, haven't seen any other recent ones) and noticed that he had sent 150 text messages to one number, and multiple phone calls a day to same number. Even phone calls and texts when he was on annual leave. He send text messages to half a dozen other numbers, including mine, and these were in single fingers.
I got hold of his phone, typed up the number, and the name of a female work colleague came up. I went through his phone and there isn't a single message on there to her or from her to be seen.
I confronted him and he said he deleted all the messages because he 'knew I'd be upset if I saw how often he had contacted her' but he had nothing to hide, he hasn't had an affair, she's just a work colleague who he's developed a 'close supportive work relationship' with, and she's only a 'friend' and he's entitled to have a 'friend'. Apparently I 'act like I hate him' (?? ) and again he said it was 'making him stressed that the housework wasn't been done' , that's my fault apparently as 'he doesn't want to spend his weekends doing it.'
We have had a massive row about this. He is adamant he has done nothing wrong, and he 'only deleted the messages because he knew how upset I would be if I saw them' and 'he has not done anything wrong with her'. He only contacted her this frequently' to discuss work'He 'hasn't had sex with her so it can't be an affair' (I asked directly), and that no other man's wife would be bothered or upset by any of this.
He has also become bothered about his weight and appearance excessively in recent months and has lost 1.5 stones.
Interestingly, recently whenever I had voiced my suspicions to him and asked why he was so stressed etc, what was it with him being glued to the phone, etc he told me I was nasty, paranoid, and 'it was all in my head'.
My self esteem has disappeared over the last few months and I have felt unattractive, and unloved. I feel so dreadful tonight.
He is minimising it and I feel he is not being fully honest with me. Again, he has just said he has done nothing wrong and he's sure amongst his work colleagues 'that other people are texting each other that often to talk about work' and that i'm overreacting.
I would be so grateful for an outsider's opinion on this. Am I overreacting ?
Sorry this is so long, thank you for reading this and bearing with me.

Oh dear! What a rough time you've been having! I agree with a lot of what previous posters have said but I will add my own thoughts. Take them to heart or throw them in the bin.

Pretty, you've invested a lot of time and 'self' into this relationship. That's not something that magically goes away when you are betrayed. But, and I may be repeating myself, all the TRUST is gone. Certainly there may still be love there, you can love and not trust. But love without trust is pretty useless IMHO. The question isn't 'can my love survive this?' it's 'can I ever trust him again?'. I think counseling is a great idea. You need to be able to see clearly and you've been through so much. It will help you consider all options open to you and decide which is best for you and your DCs. If he goes to counseling, all the better. It may help him accept whatever decision you make.

IMHO, he is terrified. He's seen what his behaviour has done and he's scared shitless because his comfy life and public image is just about to crash around his ears. Is he truly remorseful for what he did or just remorseful because he got caught, who knows. Can that kind of 'wake up call' really cause an absolute change in a person and make them become (with counseling) a good spouse and parent? Yes, I think so. Is it likely? No. You might possibly wash the spots off a leopard, but he remains a leopard just the same. But for you, the decision is 'does it even matter?'.

I'd start by telling him that if he really wants to prove to you that he's sorry and wants to keep you, he will leave. Because YOU asked him to and he should be jumping through hoops to prove that he is thinking of you first and what you need. Whether you really do want to think things over or are just saying it to get him the hell out, doesn't matter. At this point, you owe him no honesty. You owe him nothing.

The issue with your DCs is harder to deal with. But remember that happy children rarely come from an unhappy, stress-filled home. Living in a home where their mother isn't respected, where there is strife and secrecy will do them more harm than the temporary upset of divorce. Will you come into some blame from them? Probably, but in the long run they will understand. BUT, I would, at least for the time being, monitor your H's conversation with them carefully. Just to be sure he isn't dropping 'innocent' little poison-bombs into their ears all the while telling them in your hearing, that mummy isn't to blame. Again, tell him if he has really changed he will do what is right for them, leave and explain that sometimes mummies and daddies need to spend some time apart, just like sometimes they don't want to play with one or the other of their little friends.

And do tell a friend. I'm also the one who is always the shoulder, never the cryer-on. And I found that when I did confide in a friend, they were so happy to be able to 'be there' for me as I'd 'been there' for them. I understand wanting to keep private. But when I confided in a friend, she kept my confidence. She supported my decision with her whole heart, although I think at the time she thought I was making the wrong one. And she's never brought up what I went through unless I broach the subject.

You need time, space, and healing. He owes that to you. You owe it to yourself.

Sorry chili, I do see what you are saying but disagree with you - he is that much of a shit.

Cheating is almost irrelevant at this stage. He has undermined, manipulated, bullied and sworn at the OP for years as well as abused family finances. How does that make him not that much of a shit?

Perhaps the situation is not irreversible - only the OP can decide if she can forgive and move on, with the aid of a ton of counselling for both of them, but let's not try to reduce the severity of the EA that he has put her through.

Chilli, your post of 13.47 has been so incredibly helpful.

I have been traumatised by all this so much, because to me it is a catastrophe, and I am not giving him any excuses to behave the way he has : he clearly has issues he needs to sort out.
BUT, everything you say is right.
We had (i thought) a normal relationship, and a happy marriage, until this episode.
You are right, I think Most Men are bloody stupid, think that because their wife is flat out at work and busy in life and distracted with DCs she doesn't fancy him anymore and the little young blonde that is paying him attention and flirting with him, is real life. Selfish and immature attitudes that most men exhibit.
And you are right, we do need a cleaner. If DH can spend all that money on luxuries, we can spend, what, I don't know, £40 a week, on a cleaner.
I agree, life is more stressful than it could be.
You are right, we (DH and I) both need to step back and reevaluate our lives and reinvent and have a fresh start, regardless of whether I decide we divorce over this.
The points you have made have been SO helpful.
And refreshing to have someone point out that certain behaviour doesn't mean you have to LTB, it's all about the context of the situation and personal circumstances. And although the OP is probably usually not to blame, and her DH is probably usually in the wrong, nothing is black and white in real life.
Thank you for your balanced perspective.

What I have said above doesn't take away from what anyone else has said, everyone has been immensely supportive.

Months of fault finding and unpleasant behaviour, even rebuffing her efforts to find out what was wrong by calling her nasty and paranoid - sorry ChilliQueen you and I see this differently. I think he's done a first class impression of being a shit. Why else does prettyhackedoff say her self esteem is on the floor?

I think Most Men are bloody stupid, think that because their wife is flat out at work and busy in life and distracted with DCs she doesn't fancy him anymore and the little young blonde that is paying him attention and flirting with him, is real life. Selfish and immature attitudes that most men exhibit.

No, no not true. Many of the men in my life are NOT like that. Please don't tar all men with the same brush.

Women can be just as selfish and immature.

I would also have to disagree with your analysis of the situation as it is Chilliqueen.

To my mind this man has been abusive throughout their entire marriage and OP has become conditioned by him to be more accepting of his abuse of her (and by turn his children whom he is not above manipulating either).

Chilli - I disagree with your post.

We do not have to put up with shitty behaviour from loved ones.

We deserve to be treated with kindness and respect.

Its nothing to do with men being immature/selfish - how very sexist.

This man has probably always been immature and selfish and only HE can change himself.

Prettyhackedoff

Your marriage has been normal - for a marriage that is at its very centre an emotionally abusive one. He has held the balance of power and control from the get go. He has not let you be your own person.

Re this comment
"You are right, I think Most Men are bloody stupid, think that because their wife is flat out at work and busy in life and distracted with DCs she doesn't fancy him anymore and the little young blonde that is paying him attention and flirting with him, is real life. Selfish and immature attitudes that most men exhibit"

Do not tar all men with the same brush because they do not all behave in the same ways that your own H has done. Not by a long chalk. Your H feels entitled to act like this and you have put up with him and his rubbish for more than the best part of more than two decades for your own reasons. What do you get out of this relationship with this person?.

OH, I've just seen the posts of all the posters to Chilli's 13.47 post. I was taking too long to write my post to Chilli to see it.

The recent posters all make fair valid points.
Ghostly:
I agree about the texts, I am at least 95% sure in my head this is the end of us, its just so hard to get round that in my emotions. If the kids didn't exist, I would have left HIM already, without a doubt.
The fuck off stuff is unforgivable, I know that, and I agree with you, he doesn't deserve me, and he has behaved like a shit
Across the Pond;
I have told him all my trust has gone and because of that I'm not sure we can salvage matters.
Living:
yes, he has bullied manipulated and sworn at me. I've already told him that that is abusive and I agree, it is shitty behaviour.
Donkey:
I have told him how despicable and abusive his efforts to rebuff my finding out by calling me nasty and paranoid are, I've told him I find this harder to forgive than the ''affair itself"
I've also told him that these are the things that have destroyed my self esteem.
This lack of self esteem, as well as the kids, are probably the reason why I'm 95% sure it's over rather than 100%.
But it's very difficult when you have had 22 years of normal behaviour before the 1 year of shitty behaviour and abuse. It's hard to forget the person you were with in those 22 years.

pretty that's a great post.

But it's very difficult when you have had 22 years of normal behaviour before the 1 year of shitty behaviour and abuse. It's hard to forget the person you were with in those 22 years.

Exactly why you both need some distance, headspace and someone independent to talk to. I hope you manage to get this sooner rather than later.

Not all men are silly and immature. My DH would never dream of behaving this way and we have been through some shite since we've been together and it makes us stronger, not pushing us apart. There are good men out there :)

prettyhackedoff Just a point to think about. You've been putting a lot of thought into the 23 years of this relationship. But ask yourself this... how much thought do you think HE gave to the 23 years of your relationship when he got together with this OW?

Just wondering if chilli os the OP's DH !!!!!!!

New Year Changer,
in a post you put up a day or two ago you said something like 'much of this is familiar to me'
Do mind me asking you why? If you've had a similar experience and don't mind telling me, one way or another, then I 'd really appreciate hearing it, but obviously you may want to keep your privacy.
I'm ashamed to say I have always lurked on mums net, and this thread is the only time I've ever posted.
Although i have found the ability to vent on here enormously therapeutic over the last few days, and the vast majority of things people have said have been supportive and helpful , the last few posts are starting to make me feel I've been playing with fire.
If you are all correct and I've been emotionally abused I think I need to protect my self by not posted anymore.
School run now anyway.

Why would stopping posting here protect you, love ? I think you should carry on posting (if he is not reading your input) to get some support.

"If the kids didn't exist, I would have left HIM already, without a doubt".

If you turn this around the children should not be used as glue to bind you together now.

Errrr... no I am not the OP's DH. Weird thought. More later as at school now.

CQ, it has to be pointed out that you are making a lot of excuses for this bloke, and minimising what is actually awful behaviour displayed by him

I think there are some really great links somewhere that explore EA which I've seen on other threads, and will give you more information. I will try and see if I can find them.

I am no guru but I think his language certainly has been abusive to you - how can he countenance speaking to another human being like that, let alone his own wife and mother of his kids who he is supposed to love, protect and cherish?

It sounds quite scary but I think we've nearly all experienced it in past bad relationships one way or another at varying levels :) FWIW my experience was neglect, refusal to ever, ever admit he was wrong and an inability to accept any responsibility and push all the blame onto me. On the outside he was the perfect man and we were the great couple, but it was bleak on the inside. I didn't even realise what it was till I looked back at it all after I had left.

Your GP will explore this with you and get you support so you can talk it through with an expert. In the meantime please continue to post if you feel comfortable. We're here to listen to you vent and vent with you :)

I have been following this thread from the beginning as it caught my eye as I too have been with my DH for 23 years and married 16. I can see where Chilli is coming from it is very difficult to throw away 23 years together for what appears to be one messy indiscretion.
When you've been with someone as long as you and your DH have married life does have it's down periods and if it coincides with a bit of attention from someone at work it could very easily turn into a full blown midlife crisis or even an emotional affair. However most people panic when real life intrudes into any daydreams they have of a more interesting or different life. Usually this is their spouse pulling them up on their attitude or generally sussing that something's up. At that point most people pull back to the reality of what they have and kick themselves for getting carried away.
What worries me about your DH is that he didn't care you noticed, he carried on with the multiple texts, he attacked you for being a rubbish wife, he's made your life miserable to make himself feel vindicated in his shitty behaviour. When you had proof something was going on he called you mad and said it was your fault. Only when the children were upset did reality really sink in.
If it were me the fact that he thought he was so smart and you were so stupid would be a deal breaker.
I think you should be really proud of yourself the way you have handled this. You may need your roots done but you outwitted your bollocks of a husband. Take car of yourself you've had a horrrible shock -it's normal to feel crap.

For the record I am not saying LTB permanently I just mean get some headspace to reflect on what's happened. Others are saying the same.

For me the biggest transgression is H's assertion that this dalliance was OP's fault for 'not paying him enough attention'

The only people who feel they are 'competing' with children for attention are children themselves. It is deeply dysfunctional and very difficult to change those attitudes.

I agree with those who have said all men are not shits. Some are, for sure. But there are some out there who just need to be taught. Let me try to explain without going into the gory details. My DH was verbally abusive, but there was never any physical abuse or infidelity. I put up with it for more years than I should have, thinking I was giving him as good as I got. I wasn't. The insults and names were water off a duck's back to him, arrow to the heart for me. When he started to turn it on our oldest DS (those teen years) I had a sharp wake up call. I confronted him, told him that if he didn't agree to counseling and immediately change his behaviour, we were done. I had a bag already packed for him sitting by the door. He was shocked beyond belief!! He agreed to go to counseling, sure that the counselor would bring me up sharp and tell me I was wrong. Wasn't he surprised! Long story short. He was motivated to change and so he listened and learned. Because he then recognized that he was wrong and his behaviour was unacceptable. Took a while, but he is now a wonderful husband & father. He apologized to me and to DS1 for his past behaviour. Is he perfect, far from it. But I can accept his 'flaws' now, just as he accepts mine.

A major difference though, pretty, is that I never had to deal with infidelity or lying. So I'm not saying what worked for us will work for you. Just an illustration that men can change and that they aren't all shits to the bone.

Only you can decide if you feel your marriage is worth trying to salvage or if you are 'done' beyond any repairing. And, speaking for myself, if you post that you are done, I will support you. If you post that you are going to give it one more try with plenty of counseling, I will support you also. That's what friends do. Even 'internet friends'.

handy, and living, thanks.
Tobias and Across the pond, your posts made me cry. (but in a good way and I hadn't cried properly yet so I think I needed to .)
Both T and A posts have been insightful, thanks so much.
To all the posters who took exception at me saying that most men are selfish and immature, and they would all fall for the young blonde, I don't think, that, I know that's not true.
I think when I'm said that I was feeling angry towards DH. And I said it to make me feel better, as I do wonder that if all the other men out there wouldn't fall prey to having a sudden midlife crisis/poor behaviour , etc what on earth did I do wrong to end up with the man who does behave like that ?
Obviously I must be a hugely poor judge of character.
DH is coming home early again, he will be home soon.
FWIW I am planning to tell him he HAS to go to the travelodge from tonight onwards (the kids will freak, especially our eldest) and I made a plan to talk again on Friday night somewhere neutral away from the children (babysitter booked). I plan to tell DH it doesn't necessarily mean its the end, but I want control of the situation until I make the final decision, it's not about what he wants anymore.
I want to remove it all from the house, and as a poster (whose name I can't remember , sorry!) said I already feel I can BREATHE again at the thought of it.
It's even given me back my appetite, I've had something to eat just now for the first time since Saturday morning, albeit a chocolate bar!
I'm worried he is looking at this, so have considered asking HQ to delete the thread. If I do so, it might be in a hurry so I want to take opportunity to say BIG THANKS to everyone who has posted. I have respected all opinions even though I've not necessarily agreed with all of them.
I can't believe it has come to this.

Good Luck!
Do what's right for you.
Everything else will fall into place.
X

Best of luck to you.

Good luck- you WILL be ok, and I wish you all the very best.