Sleep-sex?

[GollyGosh1]

Have only registered to post this topic after chatting to a friend who is on mn and will probably be reading this, though she won't tell me her 'name'.

Anyway, I was telling my friend how earlier this week I woke in the middle of the night with my husband's fingers all over me, and inside me. Should stress that I'm very happy with him and was very happy for us both to enjoy a sleepy fondle and then, well, go back to sleep! Only the second time this has happened in ten years but it's been fun both times.

Anyway, mentioned this to my friend as thought it was quite funny and was surprised at her response. She felt strongly that I'd been abused (despite being good friends with my husband) on the basis I hadn't consented. We chatted/argued (in a good natured way) for a while and in the end agreed that I'd post this message to see what others thought.

There is nothing wrong with touching up your partner to WAKE THEM UP for sex.
Panetrating them with fingers or penis whilst they are asleep is crossing the line and creepy.

My wife and I had sex last night. Neither of us actualy said we agreed that we wanted sex, it just happend.

Does that mean neither of us consented?

Sex between my wife and I often happens like this where neither of us consent, it just happens.

So in this case are we sayain that if either of us wanted to be vindictive we could put a case forward for non consensual sex?

I'm not the bad guy here, just trying to have a discussion about consent, and the law.

Behave yourself Andy.

Would I be correct in thinking that some rape victims are completely paralysed with fear and are rendered speechless by the assault?

Fear, shock, survival instinct?

Maybe this case will help you understand Andy1964 Ched Evans didn't get consent and he is serving 5 years in prison. Turn out the 'grey area' you seem to think exists isn't so grey.

My wife and I had sex last night. Neither of us actualy said we agreed that we wanted sex, it just happend.

A rapist could use exactly the same description. But presumably there's things you've not mentioned that means it wasn't rape. Describe those and you have your answer.

I'm with previous posters, what's so difficult about the concept?

PrincessFlirtyPants

See, I don't think thats a grey area. The girl was obviously not able to make a consensual decision based on her intoxication.

If she had been sober would the same judgement have been made?

Vivacia
I'm with previous posters, what's so difficult about the concept?

Nothing, I'm just having a discussion, seeing what others opinions are. that's all.

Yes, regardless of her being sober or drunk the outcome should have been the same.

HTH.

My wife and I had sex last night. Neither of us actually said we agreed that we wanted sex, it just happened.

Was she asleep?
Was she drugged?
Was she being threatened?
Was she passed out?
Was she tied up and gagged, with no safe word/gesture?
Did you threaten her with violence?
Did you coerce her?

If yes to one of those questions, it was rape/sexual assault.

If not, and if she engaged enthusiastically from the start, then you have nothing to worry about.

Now do the same exercise in relation to you.

It's not that complicated or grey.

Andy, you are hardly having a discussion. You are mostly being flippant.

PrincessFlirtyPants

Posted a good example of the footballer.

Scenario;
A young woman, with no morals, a few debts discovers that a premiership football team are staying at the local hotel and decides to trap one or more of the players.
Staying sober she lets one of them chat her up, flirting with them, eventually ends up in bed having sex but not once has the footballer asked permission adn she has not actually said she wanted to have sex with them.

Could the same happen as in the Ched Evans case?

See, this is turning out to be a good discussion about a very serious subject.
Sorry for being flippant though. I just like a good debate.

I'm shocked that you are trying to defend a convicted rapist. Honestly, that is disgusting.

I hope, for his sake, that Andy's wife doesn't read his messages. I'd be worried.
On the other hand, I hope she does read them.

It would be most fun if she was in this thread, arguing the opposing view to him.

I just like a good debate.

You must not understand what a "good debate" is.

I'm not defending anyone???????

Andy, this is hardly a good debate. Or a debate. You just come across as a bit thick, or worse.

Why are you all being so agressive?

Debate;
a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints

I'm putting forward opposing views as per the dictionary definition of debate.

that does not mean I agree with them or that I'm think

I'm pretty sure you're not think.

What is the benefit of having opposing, unsupported, views on this subject.

Why are you just arguing for the sake of it on this serious matter?

Do you think it's fun for women who have been on the receiving end?

Do you think it's healthy or fun to put forward rapists' points of views?

You are not even defending them, because there's hardly any reasoning behind the statements you have thrown.

I do hope you are enjoying yourself, because there are at least a few people who post on relationships and who have suffered at the hands of the people you are defending that must be having a right old laugh. Not.

Ok Andy, I'll give you a scenario where you can put yourself in the position of the victim.

Scenario;
You're in a hotel and there's a few famous footballers in the bar having a few drinks. You get talking to them and are having a good laugh. The bar closes but they say they have a mini bar in their room and you could carry on having a drink and a laugh with them if you like. After a few too many you pass out on the bed. You are woken to find that one of the footballers is having sex with you and his mate is ready to join in too.
When you report it, somebody suggests that because you didn't say no, you must have consented. Anyway, you go to a room with a couple of footballers, what did you think was going to happen? You were asking for it.

Lweji

I'm pretty sure you're not think.

What is the benefit of having opposing, unsupported, views on this subject.

None other than being intersted in peoples views on this, quite innocently.

Why are you just arguing for the sake of it on this serious matter?

It is a very serious matter that deserves discussion and there are always opposing views that are interesting to expore

Do you think it's fun for women who have been on the receiving end?

How dare you suggest that I think it's fun for women who have been on the recieving end. I have not insulted anyone personally in this thread. All I have done is discuss the issue with you all in a reasonable and somethimes flippant manner (for which I apologised)