Surviving a family Christmas when there is already tension.

[DowntonTrout]

DD1, her DH and their baby are coming to stay over Christmas. For a week to 10 days. Our relationship is very difficult, their relationship is turbulent.

We also have DD2 (11) and older DS who has left home but will be here as his DP is working. DD1 is prone to dramatics and attention seeking. She is already sulking that I will not babysit on NYE. This is because we have been invited somewhere with DD1. We have had DCs for 25 years and have only ever been to house parties at NY with other friends, or we stay in. Isn't that what most people with DCs have to do? Apparently her MIL will babysit but DD says its not worth it as she will have to get up with the baby the next morning, when she is rough.

Another flash point is Christmas morning. DD1 wants to be there to see her DSIS (DD2) open her presents. She has already asked what DD2 is getting and proclaims that she would have liked that same thing( this is not possible.) DD2 is still at a stage where she gets lots of presents, half believes in Santa ( not really but not sure enough to say she doesn't) and loves the magic of Christmas.

As DS grew up and left home we have bought him less for Christmas. Not necessarily monetary wise but say a Barbour jacket and some aftershave- that's £150 without stocking fillers. DS is more than happy. dD2s main present is around that but she gets more as she gets clothes, toiletries and other bits, just because she's still a child, at home and the other two had all their stuff over the years when they were younger. I know DD1 will be expecting as much as she used to get, she has not spent Christmas with us since she was 17 (20 now). Perhaps we spoilt her/them but she has form for selling her laptop, one years present, and iPhone, another year, to cash converters.

Oh, this is so long, sorry. The point, should I reign in DD2s presents so as not to offend DD1? Should I buy more for DD1 and so, in turn, DS, to make it equal, even though they're adults? Should DD1 just have to accept that she's an adult and therefore doesn't get the same anymore? My GS is only 6 months old and will only get a few clothes and a couple of toys plus some money for his bank account as heis too little to know what is going on.

Oh Downton, it sounds like a recipe for disaster, stress, anxiety and all-round unhappiness. I feel sorry for DD2, but I also feel sorry for you having to deal with all of this. However, the answer really is in your hands and you have had a lot of good advice. Not wanting to hijack your thread, but my MIL has a 55 year old son who comes to stay, brings his own sons - 24 and 28 - and they all lie around while MIL and FIL (85 and 86 years old!) do all the cooking, all the washing up, run them here and there for outings etc etc. Every year I get the phone calls leading up to Christmas and NY where she is fretting about it, she's too old, she can't afford it. I give her much the same advice you have been given, and she says she doesn't want to upset anyone or cause bad feeling, so she martyrs herself, resents everyone, and then phones again in January to moan about it. This has been going on for the 17 years I've known her. Please don't still be martyring yourself in 17 years time. Please go to the lovely-sounding NY party, please try and stand up for yourself. I do hope it works out ok.

As this is your BIL, Reg, couldn't your husband say something to him? It's awful that his brother does that to his mum.

Imperial, MIL has begged us not to say anything, she dreads upsetting him. If I had been present I would have come out of the kitchen with a tea towel and said something like 'ok, who's washing and who's drying?'. She's partially sighted and loves the radio, and has it on Radio2 all day long, but the grandsons tell her to put it off as it 'annoys them' - and she does it! Frankly I'm past caring now, I used to invest a lot of righteous anger in the whole situation, but she's not going to change now. Hence, I posted it really as a warning from the future for Downton and to see what she might be looking at if she doesn't nip it in the bud now.

Your poor MIL - those three sound a complete waste of space. Couldn't you ask your MIL and FIL to your house next year? God help them, they are far too old to be running around like that. And your poor MIL unable to listen to the radio! Your BIL's sons sound as bad as he is.

Downton

I remember your threads about your dd over the last few years - I'm a serial name changer so you won't recognise me, I'm not sure that I ever posted on your threads before I certainly read them with my jaw hanging open and had a lot of sympathy for you (no help whatsoever )

I used to read about your dd and think that she sounded very much like the daughter of an acquaintance of mine who was diagnosed with a personality disorder at about the age of 17 - who also had a baby very young and drove her mother to the brink of... well, not very nice things. She drove most other people away because only a mother would tolerate the behaviour! I think I would often wonder why my acquaintance and yourself didn't have a harder line with these children.

And then my very own dd1 went completely off the rails, so now I know how it feels to be in your position and can completely understand the confusion, the pussyfooting, the compromising to my own detriment. My dd was diagnosed with emotional disregulation disorder earlier this year after two years of CAMHS involvement, hospital admissions for self harm, police visits blah blah... EDD is (or can be) a precursor to personality disorder and your daughter sounds very much like mine in so many ways.

Anyway, that was just so that you know that I'm not talking outta my arse and have some experience albeit a few years behind you (my dd is almost 17).

My dd responds best to nice set plans. So - set the christmas meal time and stick to it. She's either there or she isn't, in my case I'd tell my dd that she'd be very welcome but I wouldn't mind if she weren't.

Flashpoints for us are sudden changes of plan, they go down like a fart in a lift and have often resulted in melt downs of nuclear proportions, so I often run things a bit like a military operation. Lists are your friends like someone said upthread. Timings, meal plans, outings - everything runs to a schedule for the duration of her visit perhaps?

In your position I would certainly (from a nice safe distance of an 8hr journey!) be telling dd that she couldn't stay for NY, like it or lump it. I would also take measures that meant she would have no access to the house in case she tries to sneak in. I've been known to change the alarm code for example, especially after I discovered that my dd had a key she claimed to have lost. Tell neighbours that the house should be empty.

I don't know if any of that might be useful to you, it's just the stuff I've learned with my own experience as the mother of a EDD/PD young adult.

I guess what we need to grasp is that DD1 has no spontaneous ability to see anything from anyone's point if view but her own. Does she hurl accusations at you of not caring/loving her, if her wishes are not given priority? I think emphasising fairness (which you are striving for but she will not see as 'fair') is one tack - so, anything you stick to, and she resists, the calm response is 'this is the fair way to do it, fair to everybody,' End of conversation.

lemondough, that's very helpful. Thank you.

walkacross that is exactly what she does.

Downtown you mention 'we' in your original post is this your DP/DH?

If so where does he stand on this and are you getting any support from him?

Having been through difficult times with my adult DD, my heart goes out to you.

I bet so many people on this thread identify and just wish you could stand up for yourself, with a bit of RL handholding. What is your DH like on that score ?

Buy each of your children something you'd like them to have and don't try to make the totals equal.

Face the fact that DD1 will find an argument in an empty room , there's no point in hoping for otherwise. She'll be annoyed about something whatever you do, won't she?

It sounds like she expects to have you running around after her. If you can't change that, drastically reduce their time with you. They can shorten the trip or stay with PIL or whoever. In any case, you'll be away for 2-3 days at new year (don't ask her permission, present a fait a complit.) They'll need to leave before then.

I hope your DD2 can have the sort of childhood Christmas that you'd like to give her, and that you enjoy NY.

Downton. She is a grown woman with a child and partner. She is bringing up your grandchild and needs to understand the value of family ralationships (and health, and being safe and so much more that she takes for granted) over monetary value. Did she take last year's gift to CC? If so, cut out the middle man and give her £50 cash at most, and a small gift for her DP.

Put the rest towards a stay away for you and your DD2 for a night or two somewhere lovely from boxing day or day after. If you can afford it this year, do it, if you can allow DD1 access to your house while you're away. She can cook for herself. Any costs of repairs or cleaning, take out of future presents!

If you can't risk that, book yourself thevtrip next year and do not allow her access tobyour home while you're away.

Yes DH and I are in full agreement. He is not afraid of her though and in turn, she would not dare try with him what she does with me.

Another thing that scares me is when she visited last there was a small disagreement and she went off in a huff. She sat outside crying to DD2 that I was horrible to her and she couldn't stand being here. dD2 became very upset saying that if I didn't try to be nicer DD1 would take the baby away and we wouldn't see him.

Now DD2 refused to go to DD1s wedding and refused to speak to, or of, DD1 for a year. Until baby was born. Now, of course, she is madly in love with her baby nephew and is desperate to see him. So, it's fine me being strong and laying down some boundaries. But DD1 knows exactly what to say to DD2 to get at me. I can't allow that. It is not fair. Should I broach that too while I'm at it?

Broach all of it. Emotional blackmail of your dd2 is out of line.

Your priority is to parent DD2. She is your dependant.

DD2 has made her choices and she has c to accept that, while there may be times throughout the year when you may be prepared to offer a night of babysitting (on dates you offer), NYE is not one of them.

Could DD2 stay the night at a friend's NYE and you go and stay somewhere else nearer the party?

She sat outside crying to DD2 that I was horrible to her and she couldn't stand being here. dD2 became very upset saying that if I didn't try to be nicer DD1 would take the baby away and we wouldn't see him.

Don't let her have an audience. Take DD2 away from her when she is in a mood like this!

I have read the thread and it does sound very stressful. My suggestions/thoughts are:

Tell them that their visit has to end on 29th Dec as you are all going away for NY. Secure the house before you go.

She is 20, so practically still a child herself and a new mum, so I can see that she might need a bit of a hand with the baby. BUT, be specific and say that you will give him breakfast or his bath each day, so that she has some down time, but that you won't be able to take responsibility for him apart from that. Babysitting on two evenings only - which must be agreed a day in advance.

Set the time for lunch on Christmas day - sorry, but not being able to plan around it would drive me bonkers too!

Tell her in advance that you will spend £150 on presents for both her and your DS.

Try to do something different (walk, charades, entertainment, craft, bonfire?) which takes the focus away from all the endless carping about the value of presents. - to her, not you.

Downton, you say that your DD would not dare try with your DH what she does with you. I think this is very revealing and something you should learn from. She can obviously curtail her behaviour with her DF. Watch what your DH does and do exactly the same. You are obviously worn out by what's happened to date and it is probably easier to just go with the flow rather than taking a stance and facing the inevitable abuse from her. Change your MO and wrong foot her. She knows exactly how to play you and it is working very well for her. Tell her emphatically that it is not continuing (by telephone with 8 hours distance!). What is the worst that can happen? The worst has happened before and she is still here fighting the bit out. You capitulating to her is not improving the situation.

I have not walked in your shoes but I have a wayward 17 year old who causes havoc at times and has almost brought me to the edge. She has tried everything, assaulting me, self harm, breaking things. She was suspended from school, assaulted 2 police officers, spent a night in a cell and ended up in care for 2 months. It has been a complete nightmare. I saw a counsellor who basically told me to stop doing what I am doing. She gave me fantastic tips and essentially told me to change my entire approach. This involved not reacting to her dramas and telling her in calm times what I will not tolerate. I could go on for hours but essentially what I am trying to say is that by changing my behaviour her behaviour has changed too and things are improving. My daughter has not had a mental health diagnosis and I absolutely understand that I do not understand the implications of a diagnosis. I just thought I would share my experience in case it was of any comfort to know you are not alone.

I really wish you well and seriously encourage you to take a stance and ensure that, whether she throws a fit or not, you enjoy your Christmas and go away for NY. I wish you all the best.

I'm not sure I think your second daughter should have been allowed not to to go to the wedding. Unless you want to worsen rifts. It all sounds messy to me. As if the way the girls get what they want is to throw huffs and emotionally blackmail other people. This not speaking for a year. This telling a younger child that their mother is being mean. It all sounds odd and wrong.

This is all a bit confusing as there seems to be loads of background to this.

My first thoughts were that it seemed a bit mean to invite her for the christmas period then make plans such as visiting friends and going to a NYE party that she specifically wont be welcome at, however her sister will. I do think excluding her on purpose is unkind.

How were you hoping she would react to that?

As for presents I'd spend roughly the same on all three.

There is definitely a lot of back ground here but one thing is for sure, You and your DH are enabling this behaviour. Both of you need to stand up to your DD1. Otherwise this is going to be the christmas from hell for you and your DD2

Are you any further forward after the weekend, OP ?

woolytights read the thread dear

OP's DD arranged something for herself on NYE - that was the issue, she wanted OP to babysit, but OP also had something to go to. The DD otoh could ask her MIL to babysit, who had offered, but would then have to get up with her baby in the morning. Poor thing.

And spend equally on all 3 - 2 are adults who have left home, 1 is a child still at home?

Explain everything out to her .... I think if she knows reasons why and explanations it may help.. I have had a lot of resentment for my own mother over the years as she used to be all about us kids and then one day it was like she got sick of it and said sod u all (not saying this is u at all ! different situation just explaining y I behaved the way I did ) I took it very too heart and began to act out in my early 20's went a bit deva'ish now I have had children I treat them how I would have like to be treated and realise its because she didn't talk to me or explain why she was behaving this way ... ds is 3 and newborn I explain everything to ds down to the nitty gritty DM nearly had kittens when he asked how dd was going to get out of my tummy DM began with the stork story and I asked her kindly not to lie to him and dp and I sat and explained it to him . the point I am trying to make is that I think if you talk it out so she understands it may help her to empathise with you . don't be afraid to be brutally honest she may have a tantrum and may make this xmas totes awk' but may make following xmas's more bearable !