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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Surviving a family Christmas when there is already tension.

176 replies

DowntonTrout · 07/12/2013 08:33

DD1, her DH and their baby are coming to stay over Christmas. For a week to 10 days. Our relationship is very difficult, their relationship is turbulent.

We also have DD2 (11) and older DS who has left home but will be here as his DP is working. DD1 is prone to dramatics and attention seeking. She is already sulking that I will not babysit on NYE. This is because we have been invited somewhere with DD1. We have had DCs for 25 years and have only ever been to house parties at NY with other friends, or we stay in. Isn't that what most people with DCs have to do? Apparently her MIL will babysit but DD says its not worth it as she will have to get up with the baby the next morning, when she is rough.

Another flash point is Christmas morning. DD1 wants to be there to see her DSIS (DD2) open her presents. She has already asked what DD2 is getting and proclaims that she would have liked that same thing( this is not possible.) DD2 is still at a stage where she gets lots of presents, half believes in Santa ( not really but not sure enough to say she doesn't) and loves the magic of Christmas.

As DS grew up and left home we have bought him less for Christmas. Not necessarily monetary wise but say a Barbour jacket and some aftershave- that's £150 without stocking fillers. DS is more than happy. dD2s main present is around that but she gets more as she gets clothes, toiletries and other bits, just because she's still a child, at home and the other two had all their stuff over the years when they were younger. I know DD1 will be expecting as much as she used to get, she has not spent Christmas with us since she was 17 (20 now). Perhaps we spoilt her/them but she has form for selling her laptop, one years present, and iPhone, another year, to cash converters.

Oh, this is so long, sorry. The point, should I reign in DD2s presents so as not to offend DD1? Should I buy more for DD1 and so, in turn, DS, to make it equal, even though they're adults? Should DD1 just have to accept that she's an adult and therefore doesn't get the same anymore? My GS is only 6 months old and will only get a few clothes and a couple of toys plus some money for his bank account as heis too little to know what is going on.

OP posts:
CaptainSweatPants · 07/12/2013 13:42

I understand there's massive problems here but Xmas dinner at 6pm with a 10 week old doesn't sound very sensible
Mine were all cluster feeding in the evenings & needed rocking etc

No where do you say your looking forward to seeing your grandchild? As they live 8 hours away have you even met him or her??

CaptainSweatPants · 07/12/2013 13:44

Sorry grandson
You must be excited to sorbs time with him? Poor scrap

goonyagoodthing · 07/12/2013 13:44

God OP you are really going through the mill with her. I can't add anything more than the rest have already said. In order to keep her happy you are going to have a horrible Christmas, walking on eggshells, fluttery stomach trying to keep things "normal". I have been there but my situation was different in that it was me going to someones house, so I cut it to a minimum.

The only thing I can say is would you consider doing a personal development course or the like? Not that I mean you need it, but I did one and it made me more assertive. One of the things the lady drummed into us was if you don't change how you react to something nothing will ever change.

The very best of luck to you and a happy Christmas, I hope it is peaceful for you

ProfessorDent · 07/12/2013 14:00

Coudn't a bit of slyness enter the picture? I mean, people don't have to confront each other, they just say things like, well, we are simply at an age where we struggle to provide over such a lengthy space of time. Or, we need this period for some me time, as the period is so stressful. Of course, if you have somewhere else you have to be it is easier coming up with plausible excuses, otherwise one can be a sitting duck rather than a moving target. They know you have nothing else on.

Many people make excuses which are kind of obviously just excuses for not doing stuff, but it works.

Original poster
DowntonTrout · 07/12/2013 14:47

captainsweatpants he's 6 months old. Of course I want to see him. Yes they came to stay for a week when he was 4 weeks old. I had him 2 days and 2 nights then because they were desperate to go out. I have visited them too. As soon as they went home, all this started. It's because she's suddenly seen that if she were here, the grass would be greener. I would be running after her, babysitting, buying things, she would be being looked after. Except I wouldn't would I?

The plan was originally morning here. Then to his family for lunch/ the afternoon. Fair enough, so I don't need to consider a baby. But then he might go, she might stay etc and so our plan (loose) to have lunch at 4ish might not work. Or it might.

OP posts:
nkf · 07/12/2013 15:11

She sounds very difficult but, to me, she also sounds a bit helpless too. Very young. Maybe unhappy. Maybe not coping very well. I understand from other posters that there is a backstory.

The amount spent on presents sounds like it means something else. Like she was the pampered baby girl and now there's another pampered baby girl. I think people can feel displaced at all ages. There is a lot of stuff in your posts about money. Has money been a big thing in your interactions with your daughter?

DavidHarewoodsFloozy · 07/12/2013 15:11

Oh Downton Sad, I hadn,t rememberd your name, but as soon as I started reading I knew it was you.

I can,t believe your still going through this, you sound worried to death.

My dd is only 6, so I just keep my fingers crossed for the future, but I do know this, we give our children life, but we don,t owe them ours.

So sorry to hear about your Mum Thanks.

IneedAsockamnesty · 07/12/2013 15:22

I have concerns about Munchausen by proxy. Shall I carry on?

Whose she making ill or lying about health wise?

May be an opening there to get her some help

MistAllChuckingFrighty · 07/12/2013 15:40

"by proxy" means probably fabricating illness in her baby son

OP hasn't expanded further, but like I said upthread, that is a different matter entirely to the xmas visit and in all honesty any concerns about xmas arrangements should pale into complete insignificance when measured against such a serious matter (if it has got that bad)

IneedAsockamnesty · 07/12/2013 15:55

I know what by proxy means that's why I asked the question.

MistAllChuckingFrighty · 07/12/2013 15:57

I think it is very probably the baby son. That's why I answered.

Original poster
DowntonTrout · 07/12/2013 15:58

She is very young. And helpless. She is not ready for marriage and babies and yet here she is, both. The truth is, I cannot save her from herself. It is too late now. We have been down every avenue in the past and she has been in a mental Heath unit for a while.it is incredibly hard to sit back and watch and yet, there is little I can do. Most of all, whatever happens now, she must do for herself, yes, with support and as much help as we can give but not by pandering to her whims. A child is not a whim, it's real life living and breathing and is forever. And I include myself in "forever" she is my child and always will be.

Money. We had nothing when DS was born. That changed and we became relatively wealthy. She had a very privileged upbringing and what she learned from that is that money=happiness. Or "stuff" = happiness. Some of that is our fault for giving her everything. Some of it could be attributed to stately homes type stuff. However DS shows no sign and neither does DD2. I concede that somewhere along the line we got it wrong.

The Munchausen stuff. I am sure, but not certain, that she has convinced doctors to operate, maybe more than once. One of her learned behaviours is that injury or illness = attention. This all came to a head 2 years ago. I worry that it is becoming "by proxy" as she is constantly at the doctors with GS. He displays no signs of these illnesses when I see him.

OP posts:
MistAllChuckingFrighty · 07/12/2013 16:06

Lovey, if she is constantly at the doctors with GS with unexplained illnesses, let the professionals deal with it. A good GP will pick up on it, they are trained better these days to spot the patterns. You cannot influence the outcome (unless you think there is serious neglect or she is tampering with his health in any way in which case get straight on to SS)

Most of all, whatever happens now, she must do for herself, yes, with support and as much help as we can give but not by pandering to her whims.

And yet, you still post here asking if it is reasonable to be treated like a skivvy by her, babysit on NYE when you have plans, allow her to just decide she is coming to stay as/when she likes, worrying about how much you spend on her presents, and I am sorry to say, reinforcing in your 11yo's mind that she is less important than her chronically attention-seeking sister

I am not getting at you, love, but you seem to be quite clear and say one thing, and yet do your actions tally while you still fear her wrath for not toeing the line in the ways she sees fit ?

Original poster
DowntonTrout · 07/12/2013 16:09

I've spoken about all the other stuff before mist

Christmas is, indeed, the tip of the iceberg. But I can only keep my eye on all the other stuff. I have no concerns about having to report her to any agencies if I believe anyone will come to harm. I have done so before and will do it again if I have to.

I need to say, and this may seem selfish, this thread is about ME and how I feel. Which is that I am almost cracking under the strain. I have to be able to speak about myself in all this because I am constantly walking a tightrope and mopping up the mess. You know when people say this will be the death of me? That's how I feel. ( I'm not suicidal!)

OP posts:
MistAllChuckingFrighty · 07/12/2013 16:14

People are thinking of you when they say you have to change your behaviour towards her.

MistAllChuckingFrighty · 07/12/2013 16:16

Love, are you going to apply any of the practical advice about the xmas visit given on your thread ? Has anything resonated that might be helpful ? Could you start to implemement this weekend before it really is the death of you ? Staring down the barrel of the gun is going to ruin the run-up to your xmas, which has been the theme right from the first reply.

cozietoesie · 07/12/2013 16:17

Yes - you have to care about yourself for once. (I'm assuming you're also caring for DS and DD2 but you can get forgotten in the maelstrom.) Sadly, you're going to have to take rather difficult action - by disengaging and being tough. Can you manage to do that?

Original poster
DowntonTrout · 07/12/2013 16:18

Oh God. I know all that mist but I am just checking I am right and not doing it all wrong.

I have neglected my other two over the years. Always so caught up in DD1 and her problems. I couldn't see the wood for the trees. the scales have fallen from my eyes. I have made so many mistakes.

Everyone thought they were less important than DD1 and all the time I thought I was saving her. This is very hard behaviour for me to unlearn. The stupid thing is that DS and DD2 are so sound, so easy going, it appeared (to me) that they didn't need me as much. I am slowly putting that right but I can't make up for all those years. You are so right. DD2 will not be missing out now.

OP posts:
Original poster
DowntonTrout · 07/12/2013 16:20

Oh yes. I'm listening. I am going to find my twin.

OP posts:
nkf · 07/12/2013 16:21

If you think you can't change the arrangements - and I wouldn't rule that out - I think you should look at damage limitation. Lie in a lot. Go out a lot. Have friends round to dilute her. Invent a work reason why you have to go to your room a lot. Take your other daughter to buy school clothes and sneak off to the movies. Good luck. It sounds very hard.

MistAllChuckingFrighty · 07/12/2013 16:26

I am sorry, I had no intention of making you feel bad. I know you know all this, but knowing it isn't the same as changing it. I hope this thread helps you with that.

cozietoesie · 07/12/2013 16:27

Downton

I had several sets of relatives who were wealthier than we are. (One lot, stupendously so.) Their children spent their teenage and adult lives leeching off the parents both emotionally and financially and - interestingly - had little or no real regard or love for their parents, just kept on cuckoo chirping for the money and attention which the parents just kept on giving to them.

When the parents died (they were older than you are) their adult children, once they'd splurged the last of the money, simply cast their gazes around for new 'marks'. They had completely lost the ability to do anything for themselves.

That was our extended family and not yours - but do something this weekend to help your DD1. Phone her up and start laying down some rules.

Preciousbane · 07/12/2013 16:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
DowntonTrout · 07/12/2013 16:53

No I don't think so. They moved very soon after and while it will all be in her records I don't know if her GP has read through it or not.

OP posts:
ImperialBlether · 07/12/2013 17:01

As far as the money is concerned, I think if you can afford it, it's a good idea to spend the same amount on each of them. If one would prefer some of that as hard cash, then OK, but I'd find it difficult to spend a lot on one and not the other.

I only have two children. One is working and a part time student, the other is a full time student who earns a little by giving lessons. The younger full time student has more money throughout the term, but at Christmas I couldn't treat them differently.