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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I still haven't moved out, do I take everything? Part 2

608 replies

FarOverTheRainbow · 27/11/2013 21:49

This is a follow on from the first thread I done in AIBU here's the link

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1867926-WIBU-to-move-out-and-take-everything

I can't thank everyone enough for all the help and support you've given me. It's been invaluable and you lovely people have helped get me out of a really dark place and are still doing so. When I read the start of my old thread and think about how I felt 8 weeks ago I never thought I'd be where I am now and even though I still have a long long way to go I wouldn't be half way here if it wasn't for the support here very soppy but so true

I hope I don't lose anyone moving to here

OP posts:
FarOverTheRainbow · 17/12/2013 12:47

I've just had an email off his solicitor saying he's taking me to court for access and shared residence? WTF!!!
I'm freaking out

OP posts:
FarOverTheRainbow · 17/12/2013 12:49

I knew I should of just put up with it all, now he's going to get her for days each week and she's going to be more subjected to there shit and abuse

OP posts:
DeckTheHallsWithBoughsOfHorry · 17/12/2013 12:55

Fuck no you shouldn't.

Of course he's going to court for access. Not because he wants to see her, but because he wants to control and upset you, and pander to his horrendous mother.

Taking you to court doesn't mean he will win. Remember that. His repeated neglectful behaviour will definitely count against him!!

FarOverTheRainbow · 17/12/2013 13:11

I knew he would go for access but shared resistencia?? What if he gets it? He's also requested to have her for 2 hours I Christmas Day. I'm so scared. If I just carried on he would of had her for 10 hours a week now he could get more.

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mummytime · 17/12/2013 13:18

Go and talk to people at the shelter. Do not believe he has won.

BTW my father fought for custody of me, he didn't win (he'd already abandoned 5 other children). Just because someone goes to court doesn't mean they have a hope of winning. You have evidence of his abuse.

FarOverTheRainbow · 17/12/2013 13:26

There's no one here, all the staff have there's Christmas party today

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TensionWheelsCoolHeels · 17/12/2013 13:31

Far, remember all the people you have seen and spoken to through all of this. All that evidence you have over his behaviour. You can counter his application with an offer of supervised contact in a contact centre, based on his abusive behaviour and inability to properly care for your DD. You need to remember that just because he thinks he's entitled to x, it does not follow that he'll get it.

You have a solicitor, you speak to them and say you can consider contact, supervised, at a contact centre for x hours in response to his application. You gather your evidence - statements from police, HV, refuge etc. whoever you can to give you all the backing to show the court why you fled, why you have concerns over your ex and his parenting, and you justify why he needs to be supervised and kept apart from you particularly at hand overs etc.

Things will change in time, but you aren't dealing with your DD at aged 3 or 5, you have a small baby and she's utterly dependent on you. The court isn't going to let her go to him 3/4 days, just because he asks for it. He is showing his ignorance of what is in your DD's best interest if he thinks he'll get her half the time at this age, given that you have been her primary carer since birth.

He will get to see her but you can direct that initially so your DD gets the care she needs. He'll need to show he knows what her needs are when he has her, to justify any progression on that.

crabbyoldbat · 17/12/2013 13:31

Call your solicitor.

Ask how he's going to breastfeed her on his days.

Seriously, the most he's likely to get at her age is a couple of hours each weekend and a couple of separate midweek hours. And that's if he's deemed a safe person, which he clearly isn't. There's no reason that he would get shared residence.

Don't fret - it'll be months before this gets there anyway. And they always seem to put it an outrageous request first, which they expect to get beaten down. Don't let this panic you.

Call you solicitor.

FarOverTheRainbow · 17/12/2013 13:35

I've called her and forwarded the emails but she was with someone.

How long does it take for an immediate application to get the court?

It says that's he's a loving caring father and this has left him distraught Angry loving fucking father, what loving father screams at a newborn baby to shut the fuck up because she's crying and then turns the radio up blaring so he can't hear her Angry.

OP posts:
FarOverTheRainbow · 17/12/2013 13:46

And I still have to decide what to do about this flat Sad

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TensionWheelsCoolHeels · 17/12/2013 14:00

Far, think seriously about taking the flat. There is still a lot of help and support out there for you to tap into if you take the flat. Ideally, delaying moving will help you gain strength and support, but you can still get that if you move. Ask the refuge for details of any help you can access for once you move out and you'll see there is help for you after you move. I think you are placing more importance on the comment about you staying than you are on the long term security you could get with this flat for you and your DD. You can still get help even when you move. If you don't take the flat, but stay for the support etc then there's no guarantee you'll get another flat like this.

FarOverTheRainbow · 17/12/2013 15:37

I'm so torn. I know people say think about one thing at a time but how can I? Each decision I make will effect the next. I'm so so confused as to top it of he's texted again "how's my little girl tell her I miss her so much wish her a happy christmas I have no clue about my own child"

Why is he still texting me? I've spoken to my phone provider and I'm getting anew phone today

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Hissy · 17/12/2013 15:37

Calm! Calm! Calm!

Nothing is going to happen today, tomorrow or even this year.

Of course he'll try all the above. Expect it.

If he were a reasonable man he'd not have driven you into a refuge, now would he?

You have armies of people on your side. He has bluster.

Don't panic. That's. What he wants you to do.

Nothing will happen today. So focus on the important matter at hand, getting yourself potentially housed.

Nothing else matters today.

Breathe! It will be ok in the end.

If it's not ok yet, then it's not the end, ok?

FarOverTheRainbow · 17/12/2013 15:40

How long will it take? An immidate court application?

Is getting housed that important or is staying there? Will it stand up
For me more staying then leaving? Will they st you can't e that
Scared of him
To go into a refuge and then move back weeks later?

I've got a feeling this is all going to bite me on the arse

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Hissy · 17/12/2013 15:42

No decision about the house will affect a pile full of wank from him.

Just because he sends an email demanding stuff doesn't mean he gets it.

What is key is your focus! Focus on what's important, and that's you and your living arrangements.

He can wait until you are ready to deal with him, until the team full of witnesses to his abuse can be grouped and coordinated and then he won't know what's hit him.

Don't forget, the starting point of any disagreement is 50/50. He's told a solicitor a pile full of shite. He can't back any of it up.

You can absolutely back your position up.

Hissy · 17/12/2013 15:44

Call shelter for advice.

Call WA for advice, you're not helpless, so get asking for information!

Côme on, you can do this! ((hug))

TensionWheelsCoolHeels · 17/12/2013 15:47

No - being in a refuge is never a long term option. The timing of getting a new flat is not something you have any control over. Being away from him, being secure, having a settled place to live is absolutely something that is a priority and does not negate the fact that you had to go into a refuge to get away from your ex and his family. How long do you think is normal for anyone to stay in a refuge? It's always a temporary option, and it won't count against you if you take the flat. Just make sure you get all the help and support you can where you are now, and you get details of where/how to continue to get help when you move.

ShinyBauble · 17/12/2013 16:43

No, because you won't be going back to your Mum's where he knows how to find you. You'll be moving into your own place and he doesn't know where that is. I hope you like the place.

ChasedByBees · 17/12/2013 17:02

Moving away to a flat won't negate the fact that you had to escape him, not at all. This is a hard time Far but you'll get through it. ((Hugs))

passedgo · 17/12/2013 17:55

I replied earlier on but lost it. As Hissy says, stay calm!

This is why you are in a refuge and not sitting in an empty council house waiting for a knock on the door.

I would carry on as if you want the council house, accept it and then do what the heck you can to pay for the rent on the house while you are staying in the refuge. It doesn't have to be an either/or situation. I know money will be tight but it will only be for a few weeks.

perfectstorm · 17/12/2013 19:26

It takes about 6 weeks for an initial hearing before a judge, so that will be end of January. At that hearing the judge sees if you can reach agreement, which you won't, and you offer (I imagine, guided by your solicitor) contact in a contact centre. It takes months more to get a full hearing at which he argues his case and you argue yours. Christmas is a week away so he can demand what he likes; you're in a refuge because of him and there is no way he can safely have contact with your baby. Don't worry about court, honestly. They are there to look out for your baby's interests and you have ample evidence of his abuse, harassment, intimidation and lack of knowledge of her routine, and your solicitor will make that case for you. You just have to give all the information.

I should add that in the absence of abuse, you're expected to ask for mediation in the first instance - there is even a box on the court documentation when applying for an order asking if you've tried it, and if the answer is no, most judges will send you back to try it before seeing them again. As he knows you don't have the money for solicitors and does not know you have legal aid arguably making court the first threat is a new form of intimidation. The fact he's demanding time over Christmas, a week away, certainly implies that as no court could create a contact order that soon unless it was an emergency enforcement (no existing contact order makes that impossible). He's just trying to scare you. The letter is just a letter, it's not actually any evidence he's even applied to a court, is it.

Courts DO NOT disrupt a child's care arrangements unless they have a really, really good reason, and the younger a child is the more that applies. They are not about to take a baby away from her mum to give to dad half the week when Mum is in a flipping refuge because of Dad - I mean, seriously. Think about it.

Far, she's a baby. You're in a women's refuge. There is a police report that you and your daughter had to be escorted past him while he sat in a car outside your home to intimidate you, a witness statement from your friend that he tried to break into the house, one from your mum saying he was slowly driving past hers after you asked him to leave you alone, and text messages abusing you before and after you said you wanted no further contact and showing he had no idea what her daily routine was. That's on top of your own statements of his prolonged abuse of you and his mother's and his abuse of your daughter. His solicitor will ask for whatever he tells her to - the judge doesn't have to pay attention to it. Please don't be scared by this, it was pretty predictable. The reality is that you can insist contact is in a contact centre until the full hearing, which won't be for months, and they can't actually force anything else without your consent until that stage.

Talk to your solicitor and see what they say, but stop feeling like he can dictate what will happen. I know he's made you feel that way for a long time, but it's bullshit. He can't force a judge to do anything and no judge is going to let him continue to harass and bully you, when you're a good mother and you are in a refuge and in receipt of legal aid because of his abuse and intimidation. Stop feeling like he can do what he likes and you need to placate and pander to him. All you need to do is think about what best serves your daughter's interests and keeps her safe. That simple, and so far, you're doing a great job - just as well, really. He isn't.

perfectstorm · 17/12/2013 19:33

And it won't go against you whether you take the flat or not, so do what you think is best for you and your daughter.

Trust your solicitor. Talk to them, be open and full about the history and your concerns for your dd. You want him to have contact, you just want it to be safe. That's all. So please don't be scared of him - it's what he wants and what he is used to, because it means he gets his own way, but his behaviour to date has not been that of a doting daddy - he told you to move into a homeless shelter with the daughter he is so devoted to, remember? Seriously, he is not looking father of the year!

perfectstorm · 17/12/2013 19:36

He is showing his ignorance of what is in your DD's best interest if he thinks he'll get her half the time at this age, given that you have been her primary carer since birth.

This, this and this again. It's about his feelings/needs, not hers. And that will be noted.

FarOverTheRainbow · 17/12/2013 19:40

I know it's not a log term option I just wanted to get everything with the courts sorted out first before I moved.

The flat is really nice and its a really good size, the back garden is private and could easily fit in a shed, table and chairs and a big 6ft trampoline with space for toys. The women showing me round was lovely and I explained he situation and she said that the coucil are 100% private on who is in what properties and my details would never be given out, she said I'm really lucky to e offered a place like that and they never come up and go like gold and of
In a years time
I got the council help me again its not going to be anything as decent as that Hmm

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DollyTwat · 17/12/2013 19:48

Far I think you'll regret it if you don't take it
It's nice, private, it's yours for as long as you want it