Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 27

[CharlotteCollinsinherownplace]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Reading all your posts are great, am back in the fog of his niceness, can see it yet can't stop it.

I just want to not be here dealing with it. But I know I have to. I know it is the only way that when I move into my house, i can move in knowing i have had the time to watch him in action. This will then help me with helping the kids build up a resilience to him. I will need to learn that myself in order to teach it to them.

believe me even 2 years on from separating it is entirely possible to be conned into giving a FW the benefit of the doubt. After all if you are a NORMAL person you want other people to be reasonable good and sincere...and somewhat doubt that they can be as bad as you remember (especially when said FW can press all the "you are being the unreasonable" one buttons)

My FW has just been to court finding of fact and lost, we are in the midst of Cafcass (scary) but last night he pulled out a fantastic bit of FWness trying to hoover me back in.

there is no hope, he is like this because he wants to be/can't not be. Poor children

i hope Cafcass can see it and find an appropriate way thru.

This is not just to say poor me...also a reminder that you(I) need to trust ourselves to do the RIGHT thing and not be guilted or hoovered back into the wrong thing or what they want. If you (I) need to find someone else to validate what you (I) are doing then find that person (here if nowhere else??) and find a way to stay strong

i'm sorry to hear this foolonthehill. it is sad to think that the things which make us good people (kindness, understanding, flexibility, empathy) are exactly the things the EA's use against us.

i will not be hoovered in (repeats to self like a mantra) because i know that i am better, happier, stronger when i am not dependant on him. and the dependency is unhealthy, i realise that now.

when we got together i realise now that i was very vunerable. and yet again, as above, he used that against me. i was so grateful for someone to protect (i had genuine reasons to feel like i needed protecting) but now he is using that against me trying to tell me i will be lonely and scared in my new house. he has also said things like "what if it happened to you again? what if you are on your own in your house?" so he is trying to make me stay out of fear.
i feel sick when i think the man i 'loved' is this man.

we love the men they could be, the ones they should be...unfortunately it is a myth, not the reality. That does not make us anything other than cheated and perhaps somewhat naive.

Keep on going...this is my mantra for now. I have to trust that by being honest and straightforward and refusing to give in that right will prevail.

that is fantastically put!
when talking to a friend about FW being sad about the family splitting, a friend asked how i felt. and i said that i felt said about the 'myth' that is family breaking up. but the reality,. my reality (not his!) is not in line with that myth. i'm giving up on that treadmill of trying to create a reality from a perceived myth
let's have a

i'm with you

fool I hope you get the Cafcass issue resolved quickly and for good-- how awful to be dragged through it waiting for it all to happen and giving him chances to behave like a FW... I hope the authorities are wise to his level of potential deception. He just loves running the show, doesn't he?

Colin if it's any help I am joining you in boak-ing at the thought of your ex! good for YOU for seeing the sense and getting rid of him. Just try to get involved with other things so you have no time to think of him, easily said I know. But I think you are in danger of twisting yourself up and making him into something that he never was anyway I know I have been guilty of doing this once or twice before and it's just because I wanted to re-live or retain what I felt during the good times with an ex but really that was more down to ME and how I felt more than the guys, IYSWIM-- I remember once bumping into a previous obsession/crush of mine and being shattered because he was just a sub-ordinary guy.... who I wasn't even attracted to one bit. Couldn't figure out what I'd seen in him and was embarrassed that I'd spent so many nights remembering what I'd thought had been a night of amazing togetherness. Enough said!!

tweedle it makes me so angry to hear a parent insulting a child, even though he is young it sets up the wrong dynamic H should be helping him not calling him names. Glad you are so directional about your exit plans don't let him deceive you, if that is his basic attitude you and DC are better off without him.

noregrets I have to say the eggshells I tread on here are now ankle deep!

H response to my going out tonight was textbook. First when I told him on the phone yesterday he said 'I don't care what you do' and hung up. Then I sent a smarming text saying 'please don't be angry, I won't be late' to which I got no response. So this morning, I reminded him I'd be out and did he want me to leave anything for dinner, I got this response first: 'I don't know what I'm doing. I may go out, I've been invited to something but haven't decided if I'm going. It's none of your business.' Fine said I. Then as I left the room he yelled something like-- 'so you think it's funny to spend all my money going out with your friends when I just get left alone' .

Sorry about such a long rant but going to do it as it happened so I can figure out why I still want to cry hot tears of rage!

Me: 'am I not allowed to go out once in a while?'
Him: 'not if you are spending my money doing it'
Me: 'they paid for the ticket

whew that took me so long to write I missed all the posts in between. Think I need a too!

that'snot: you are in the mire...still trying to get him to make a reasonable comment, appreciate you for what you are and have done/;do for him. Makes your head ache doesn't it?

you know it's not you who is unreasonable right?, it's him.....even if you contributed nothing financially then as a PARTNERSHIP you would be supporting one another...but as we know what's his is his and what's yours is his too...so long as it's not responsibility, love or reason...those are all yours.

thats I am just outraged at the sponging comment. So not true.
I am aware I've been romanticising ex. I keep looking at other men who are passable and thinking I don't fancy them and they are objectively as attractive as ex. He's just a 'normal' (well not normal lol) guy. I need to keep thinking that. Also, I've got a huge crush on Chris Hemsworth and I just use it to remind myself when I start missing my ex that he is not a god a la Hemsworth. And actually I might as well be fantasising about him than my ex, since there's the outside possibility he's nice, whereas with FW, no hope of that!

tweedle I like to think of you dancing in your kitchen all happy. That's going to be my dream now. No babies or kitchen while FW was on the scene, that's for sure. What your FW said about your son is awful.

fool you are so right about the myth. I hope CAFCASS deal with everything well.

Today I am treating myself to small pleasures that make me happy. I hope you all can find some small happiness at least today.

I'm reading a really good article at work (it's an academic sociology one but a clear one) about reclaiming the self following splitting up with a abusive partner. It's by a researcher called Wuest - if anyone is interested in reading it look it up or I have the pdf and would be happy to email it.

FW really shouldn't be calling him names.
Not when FW was on the phone to his sister last night playing his tiny violin about how he doesn't understand why this is happening and how I am always shouting at DS. (PFF!) When I told him I could hear all he was saying he gave a classic FW reply "you should have turned the TV up or gone upstairs"
DS thinks the son shines from FW's proverbial backside and of course he will take on board all his father says. Which is gutting for me.
I work so hard to make my kids independent and I have been criticised for this throughout our relationship. He said today that he was being more militant. But he is still putting himself in the centre of the focus.

Tweedle, that's the nature of FWs. Mine produced his stupid tiny violin at every opportunity, self inflicted, imagined, paranoid problem. Was I allowed to moan EVER? Nope.

I think lots of kids get like that with FW parents. They have a certain charisma and are capable of hardwiring children in an insidious way. It's so sad. You aren't at fault.

LOL at the tiny violin... they are all virtuosos, aren't they! an orchestra should be formed! Also tweedle saying you should turn up the TV so you can't hear him 'telling' on you. How dysfunctional is that? But on the other hand, isn't it hurtful (is to me anyway) that they can rant away about 'us' and put forward a totally false image of the situation with my FW it's that I 'have fits' and he has to calm the situation down, that I am so fragile and mentally ill that I occasionally have mental breakdowns and thanks to him I am not in an institution! I cannot believe I put up with this for so many years-- usually the thing I was 'having a fit' about was just a normal reaction to being totally at the end of my tether.

For example this was 20 years ago and a famous one we were travelling in Italy and because I spoke a little bit Spanish FW decided that I was fluent in Italian and I had to do all the speaking/translating. When I got something wrong (was guessing whole time) it was all my fault. Then he decided he had 'toothache' and really spoiled the rest of the week by moaning the whole time, when we left I had to carry all his luggage for him because he had toothache. I'm just remembering this now because my sister was there (just thinking of her today for some reason) with friends who were appalled that I had to carry his luggage! We got to the station and got on a train-- happened to be the wrong one for the tickets we had. When the conductor told me this I burst into tears, tore up the tickets and threw them at him (he was nice and we didn;t have to pay a fine). But H's telling of the story of the trip is that I 'went mental' at the conductor and scared him so much that we didn't have to pay. Making me look like a b$%^ and him look like an innocent bystander who's a saint to put up with me. Sister told me 'dump him' at the time, why didn't I?? I actually felt sorry for HIM!!

It doesn't happen so often-- ie me 'having a fit' now because I just give up.

I can respect him for his work, and I don't deny that he has achieved great things with his firm. But I cannot reconcile this with how angry I'm feeling.

Just spoke the the accountant and am quaking a bit. I've come off the company books as planned and he will send me P45 from end of Sept. But For the past two years I was earning an amount from them, fine, I agreed to it. But I just learned recently that I should have been filing US taxes (I have dual citizenship) and the amount I earned, if I confess to the US tax, means I am liable to pay tax on that amount. That is IF I confess. I think they go back 3 years when you tell them, so I might wait a year? I don't even know how much I earned as I don't have the P60 forms, they are with H's work partner. If I ask for it they will get suspicious but I kind of think a divorce solicitor might want to see it.

Indeed - I was sat in the lounge hearing the things he was saying - so one sided. To people I know I have kept the 'realness' apart from the reasons we broke up. I am still singing his praises (he's a good dad, not a bad person, I am sure we can have a parental relationship) and he is on the phone telling anyone who will listen how 'nuts' I am. As you say that's if anyone had to deal with the crap we have to deal with they would react in the same way. But of course, as soon as you react it stops being about their behaviour and becomes all about your attitude and then they do not have to acknowledge the frustrating circumstances got you there. Thankfully lots of people know I am not nuts.
Funny thing was when he was on the phone he of course put himself in the place of the victim telling her that he had arranged a babysitter for us to go out and talk (this was Tuesday) and that I didn't even have the respect for him to do that. I wasn't even prepared to try. HOW HORRID OF ME!!! Still not respected the fact that I HAVE FLIPPING TRIED!!!!!
All this (so called) truth he speaks is making me want to move out with the kids and make him work for access.
I pointed that out to him the other day and it did make him back off a bit. I told him that I am NOT picking the kids up, moving to the other side of the country, demanding money and denying access which I ACTUALLY COULD DO! Instead, I am moving round the corner (4 streets away) talking about sharing custody AND not intending to ask for more than £40 a week. That shut him up. He knows if he pushes me too far I will pack up and get out.
thats this sounds like a muddle. I have no real in-put other than how frustrating it must be that your life is so inter-twined with his.

although saying that, I am on here ripping him apart.
But I am certainly not gilding the truth, I have just run out of patience and I am SICK of defending him

so he was late, knowing I had to go to yoga at 7.30, he got home at 7.28 to 2 kids who were going mad because they wanted to see him.
made it to yoga and caught up with some friends. then got home to him saying I looked "sexy" on my way out. then mentioned that word a couple more times. I asked him not to say those things (idiot!) and he carried out reeling off all these things that he thinks of me. I am uncomfortable so I leave the room, he follows me carrying on. I then say 'I will have to move out if you carry on' he says ' that's a good idea because I can't help how I feel" "what will we do with the kids?" him "put them into nursery" (he didn't want them to be in nursery AT ALL when I first wanted them to go there). Then he said lots of things that I can't even process because essentially they are nice. but they make my skin crawl and I hate it. I want to get away but I am scared that if I go, then he will control me via the kids. I logged on hoping someone would be out there. please help me. I don't know what to do, I feel sick and all the good work from yoga has been un-done. Eeeurgh!!!

Hey tweedle - he is hoovering like mad. He knows what buttons to push to get you agitated. He also knows that is he keeps pushing at your boundaries there's a chance he will knock them down, so he's got nothing to lose by trying. Did you say you have 10wks of this ahead? Could you in any way go somewhere else for a few weeks earlier? Or have one of your parents move in with you to maintain a barrier?

The blunt truth is that yes, he will try and control you through the kids. He will also try to control the kids. But when you are out you will be better able to manage it, detach, and teach the DCs how to deal with it too. While you are in it, there isn't much hope of doing that.

thank you pony I know he is. I keep reacting as well.
yeh 10 weeks. so long away but the hose is a home and totally worth the wait.
I agree he will try to control me through the kids. he will be late to collect/drop off, he will make last minute changes, he will ask for more than he is supposed to have just to keep me hooked.
I could always go to my parents for a couple of weeks. thing is I am doing a college course on a Saturday so I have to be here for that. I can stay away at peoples houses but I don't want to walk away and leave the kids here because I don't EVER want them to think I left them.
plus I know if I 'take' the kids he will flip his lid. and I would probably feel them same if he took them too.
my skin was crawling when he was saying I was sexy. if it was 'normal' him he would be calling me a 'fat fing cow' like he normally does if I stand up to him
MUST REMEMBER THE NORMAL HIM!!!

What will happen when you leave in 10 weeks' time with the kids? My worry here is that he has 10 weeks to know you are going, and to work things up/change to goalposts/do a flit himself with the kids. Once he realises that the charm offensive is not shifting your perspective he might well try some different tacks. Please don't put anything past him, be prepared for anything. Could you not go and stay at your parents for a couple of weeks with the kids as well? Any way you could get into the house early?

Or another suggestion - go to a solicitor now and get some kind of agreement drawn up - that you will leave on x date with the kids, and after that the contact schedule will be y, and maintenance will be whatever. Try and pre-empt and cover yourself.

Instead, I am moving round the corner (4 streets away) talking about sharing custody AND not intending to ask for more than £40 a week.

Tweedlezee, just a quick thought - make sure you ask him for all the financial support you're entitled to. You won't impress him by your nobility by asking for less.

After 4.5 years, I finally went to CSA after never getting a penny from ex (patchy work record, so not much hope of getting anything previously, but he has an okay job now). He's whining about raising it with the judge as an example of me oppressing him. The positive thing is that I'm sufficiently free of the spaghetti head to think this is hilarious and really really hope he says it to the judge, because I can't wait to see her face.

bibliomania thank you, you are right. there is no benefit to being a martyr.
Things were horrid last night (hence frantic updates) and today they just got weird. He was being all 'nice' after saying he thought I looked sexy. talked about sex with me and really inappropriate stuff. I asked him to stop, he followed me out the room telling me how good to me he was and how ridiculous I was being.
This morning I woke up, avoided breakfast and stayed in the lounge. Kids cam in and he got ready for work. He then said bye to the kids and he touched my leg and told me he loved me. My skin crawled and I just wanted to knock him out. I told him to get off me and he said 'what I am just being kind' I then rang my friend and just blubbed like a baby. she didn't mind. I spoke to my Dad and he told me to ring someone so I contact the local womens aid charity (same people I called last time so I didn't have to explain it all again) and they said I could go to a refuge out of town but I have work and college and I cannot stop that.
SO lady said I need to think about leaving and that I am ALLOWED to leave with the kids. I can also set up a residency order if I need to. She has referred me to a crisis team and they are calling me back.
he sent me a really long text about stuff. it is really hard to read because it plays on all my emotions so I looked at it and deleted it. I replied with "I am sorry you are hurting but my decision is final."
I have text a friend about maybe going to live in their spare room (with the kids) and my Dad is coming to pick us up on Sunday so we can stay there until Tuesday when I have work.
Got this is so messed up and I am exhausted.
never in a million years did I think it would go like this.

Hello lovelies all

marking my place, the threads and posts are whizzing past me I'm afraid, but I have today spent a little time trying to 'get a grip' really, how that's going i'm not sure! Its an endless battle to keep up with sleep at the moment as being awoken so frequently, and late to bed with disturbed DC due to serious external issues, rather than the usual shit FWittery

Wanted to wish you all strength ongoing, and sanity amid the confusions.. warmest wishes all xxx

Deep breath, tweedle. Sending strength. Nearly there...