My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Relationships

Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 27

999 replies

CharlotteCollinsinherownplace · 04/11/2013 21:57

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
Report
thatsnotmynamereally · 06/11/2013 10:11

Thanks silver for putting it into perspective! Indeed, this is what I am going to do-- am going to call him in a while and tell him, I've already cooked up a story that friends had bought the ticket as a birthday present for me (some are the same ones I met at pub the other day) so a mild guilt-trip of 'I have to go...' but I am aware now of how ludicrous it all is.

But what I really need to do, rather than playing games, is to talk to the solicitor and lay the groundwork, if he becomes for example v abusive again, for example like the other day when he drove after me in the car when I told him I wasn't going to stand for his shouting at me anymore and was going back to London via train and he drove up honking the horn and ordered me to get back in the car (my fault? should I have walked off in the first place? I didn't actually have to get in the car but thought it was easier than having a big argument in the road and he was placated afterwards because he had won and proved to himself that I was just 'having a fit') and blames it all on me then it's crossed whatever flimsy lines I have drawn! I will document his reaction to this thing tomorrow night. Actually, hopefully, to keep the peace I hope he will be OK with it, I'll suggest he gets together with a friend and we meet after and go back together.

It's been a year exactly since I started posting here... much more self aware but no progress re: LTB. It's been an interesting and really good year in many ways, dominated by DD's last year of school and progress to uni, couldn't have hoped for a better result, happy girl in a fabulous place. I really think my decision to keep things normal rather than upping sticks and leaving was the right one in my case. Who knows-- but if I had and it had all gone wrong the spotlight would be glaring on me and it would be All My Fault! BUT, kids are gone now and I've no one to blame but myself! This is making me realize I am a spineless self indulgent whiner who is incapable of any real action! (Kicking myself) Now off to look up solicitors. I spoke to one but think I ought to do a bit more research. If that isn't a diversion tactic, first one seemed fine and I should use the time for job hunting.

Report
TheSilveryPussycat · 06/11/2013 11:11

thats your choices were a) get in the car or b) have a big argument in the road. That's a dilemma. You left out c) not get in the car and not have the argument and continue to London. Tis the nature of spag-head that our choices feel limited.

With young adult DCs in the picture, I think the decision to keep things normal was a good one, for you and for me (though it was hell, and 'normal' would be rather a problematic description in my case!)

Report
MrsMinkBernardLundy · 06/11/2013 14:03

that's i think your plan of making him think it is for his benefit is a good idea- although also doing it by note so you don't have to see his reaction.

Don't beat yourself up for finding it hard to act. you have been with someone for years who makes every tiny decision you make into a potential landmine.

But you can do this. You will do this. And your life will be much better for it Thanks think of all those shows with friends, nights in with dcat, visits to dc without him running the show.

but yy as silvery says his temper is his problem. and if it looks like spilling over into violence, then call the police (although i appreacite that can be difficult in a confined situation- hence your plan of leaving a note being a good one.

jackie try not too woryy too much. just say to FW pretty much what you said here. I should not ahve slept with you. I see clearly it was a mistake and sleeping with you has just confirmed for me that it is truly over.
Goodbye.

if he asks you nay quesitons about your life, new man or anything else, it is none of his business he does not own you, he does not control you, you are not in an rs with him, you owe him nothing.

new man- was probably just trying to adjust to a more normal level of communication. texts every day and calls every evening are all very well in teh first flush of things but too much communicating can make it all too routine. there is nothing special about when he does call.

Report
ColinButterfly · 06/11/2013 14:31

Thank you everyone for being here for me. It's really helped just venting here. I don't have anyone really to talk to anymore. None of my friends ask any more, it's old news despite feeling so raw to me. My sister has been an immense source of support but she's got enough on having returned to work after maternity leave and it's difficult to watch her eyes roll (because she thinks I'm fab and that he's a waste of space).

silvery I am depressed, definitely, I know that. I'm taking anti depressants, which if I take them too late in the day give me heartburn to go with my heartache. I'm not having counselling at the moment. I am sick of spending my money on FW related stuff. I know it's an investment in me too, but I can't spend that much each week to schedule talking about him. I need to talk about him when I need to talk about him but sometimes when I schedule counselling I'm really not in the mood at that time.

breathe I hope they do. I was walking to my dance class last night (this makes me happy) and just thinking I need to join the dots up.

Not blunt at all tweedlezee. I am doing some social things, but they are very twee - mug painting, ballet etc. It's quite different to getting shitfaced on gin and eating cheese with my ex. I go 'out out' occasionally but not on the scale I did (a lot to do with my friends being in relationships, babies etc) and when I do, my feelings of missing of missing him are amplified and I tend to end up crying on my way home. I've had counselling about my feelings of inadaquacy, I know exactly where they stem from, but have not worked on a way forward.

jackie yes yes the bad things are definitely far from view now and all I'm left with is the good. As the lows were low and the highs were high.... I'm not lonely as such, I quite like being on my own, but I miss him with every bit of me. It's him not someone if you see what I mean.

Just had a really awkward exchange with a colleague who had no idea we'd been in a relationship and asked if I was in contact with him. I had to say no and explain why and that I really couldn't discuss him. I must have seemed really short but I can't cope with knowing anything about him.

Report
Inthequietcoach · 06/11/2013 15:20

I'm not having counselling at the moment. I am sick of spending my money on FW related stuff. I know it's an investment in me too, but I can't spend that much each week to schedule talking about him. I need to talk about him when I need to talk about him but sometimes when I schedule counselling I'm really not in the mood at that time.

Report
tweedlezee · 06/11/2013 15:36

Eeeurgh I had my first flash of - Am I doing the right thing. Today at work.
It slike I lost all the anger for all the horrible things he has done and my whole mind focused on one part of a story there for temporarily forgetting the rest of what happened.
i am exhausted from analysis and he is now back into a 'happy' place. I am home form work now but upstairs (which is sad as I really want to see my kids) but I can't sit there all 'nice'. AaAAARGH! I don't want to like him!!!!!!!!!!!!

Report
Dearjackie · 06/11/2013 17:29

mink I couldn't tell ex it was a mistake and should never have happened he would go mad, he was irate enough this morning. I did however tell him before he drove here I was seeing someone and he shouldn't come. He thought he could turn up and sweep me off my feet again. He's so cocky and persistent. I was weak enough to sleep with him, our sex life was always great. I even told him I felt dreadful as I was cheating. I told him that we could never have a relationship. I think he thought otherwise and was saying he would always be there for me and my kids, if I ever needed anything to call him and he be there ect ect. I was crying buckets, I felt confused about what new man wants and I really like him but ex was just so familiar, even if in a bad way, I KNEW him iyswim.

This morning when he rang he wasn't too happy that I was still with new man and I'm worried he will sabotage it but really I've nobody but myself to blame :(

colin I hope you are feeling a bit better today. Try to drag up some memories of the horrible things FW did to you, read back old threads, it helped me no end to do that xx

Report
Dearjackie · 06/11/2013 17:33

Also I think I was so used to 4 yrs of constant attention, several emails, texts and calls a day from ex that I think it is the norm?

I panicked when new man slowed down a bit, although we've only known eachother a couple of months it was very full on to begin with. I'd rather not lose him he's nice :)

Report
Noregrets78 · 06/11/2013 17:40

that's oo I can hear those eggshells crunching... Tell him (don't ask him), and then go. And then preparation is indeed key. He may never ask you to leave - whatever he thinks of your wonky hips (which I'm sure are lovely) you're fulfilling his needs. If you want out, start doing that preparation, having a plan is such a relief.

tweedle his hovering attempts sound like they are spectacularly failing at working on you. Make the most of it while it lasts.

Report
Noregrets78 · 06/11/2013 17:41

Doh I was a page behind! Will catch up...

Report
Noregrets78 · 06/11/2013 17:57

Right I'll try to say something a bit more relevant...

that's how did the conversation with FW go? Did he say how glad he was that you were going to have a night out?

tweedle sounds like the hovering might be working after all! Cos that's what it is. There were a couple of people who posted checklists of how to see through the fog of niceness.

Jackie I do think you need to be really blunt with FW. He won't take no for an answer, due to the way he thinks. If he goes irate then that's his own fault. I know that doesn't make things easier, but you just can't carry on with him because you're scared of his reaction. That's probably one of the reasons you split up with him in the first place! The constant attention over 4 years is not normal - just another of his symptoms. No harm in a more relaxed relationship.

Report
Noregrets78 · 06/11/2013 18:05

colin I've been so sad to read about how down you are. I remember your name change to colinbutterfly and thinking what an inspiration you were. I guess it goes to show that our brains and feelings are not predictable, and what goes up can also come down. I hope you're gentle on yourself, this too will pass eventually.

Report
Dearjackie · 06/11/2013 18:08

He knows I don't want relationship, but if I'm not careful he will turn up and tell new man what I was stupid enough to do the other night. I have been an idiot because he now has that over me

Report
tweedlezee · 06/11/2013 18:26

i don't want to though noregrets but he is playing on the pain I feel that it doesn't work. he is giving the kids a bath without moaning right now.
but the kids are such little squealers when they are with him. CONSTANLY whinging and moaning its so painful to hear. It is taking everything I have not to just get up and go and live with friends.
I am under no illusion as to what he is. I want no part of it yet I cannot leave. can I? if I go wont he just lord the kids over me?? should I go and seek refuge and take the kids so I can be their sole carer?
but then he is DEFINITELY not a bad dad. but I do not want to be with him. I want to be away in my own space not here listening to him creating whiney kids by being in their faces and not following through on anything. here he is being 'in control' of them instead of controlling me. of course a kid wants a parent who carries them round all day and gives them anything they want but it does not make for a self-aware adult. (maybe that is HIS problem)
please tell me I can do this. my other fear is once he realises that mr nice isn't working, will he start to be horrid?

Report
tweedlezee · 06/11/2013 18:44

the thing is he has just found another way of pushing me out when it comes to the kids. another way of making himself the centre of attention. that is what makes me veryvery sad

Report
CharlotteCollinsinherownplace · 06/11/2013 21:34

This is only a suggestion... Could you tell the new man that you still like him, but your head's a bit all over the place at the moment, could you cool things for a couple of months and pick up again in the new year?

That way, if FW says anything, you've taken the wind out of his sails a bit.

Maybe. Who am I to offer advice about relationships?! :o

OP posts:
Report
CharlotteCollinsinherownplace · 06/11/2013 21:34

Hmm.. sorry, that was to Jackie if that wasn't clear.

OP posts:
Report
foolonthehill · 06/11/2013 22:31

tweedle he may not be a bad dad (yet) but he is still not really a good one. Even your post above makes that clear. And what happens when they stop being little and biddable or manipulable...taking your kids away from a toxic relationship is good for them too. And if he wants to be a good dad he can still be one by behaving well and using regular good contact for their benefit.

Report
2013go · 06/11/2013 22:51

Dear colin know exactly how you feel. Weather doesn't help. When I feel terrible I think - well 2013 if you miss him so much, just ring him- and that's when I know that I'm not missing anything solid or tangible- because ringing would mean pain whether he was cold and cruel or friendly and fun, it's just that in the latter case the pain would arrive a bit later and be even worse.
We WILL survive (in a Gloria Gaynor way rather than an Abi off the x factor way!)

Report
tweedlezee · 06/11/2013 23:18

I have no doubts about leaving. I am just fully aware how persistent and manipulative he can be. my guard is constantly up.
i agree. it is easy when you can just give kids whatever they want but they will start telling him where to go soon and as he has no clear boundaries it will be very confusing for them and him. my role is to have clear boundaries and a home filled with respect. i will foster strong and independent children and i can only hope that this will set them up for the future. they will spend their lives feeling sorry for their father, its guaranteed. i just hope they have respect for me. and they will certainly be more aware of this when i have self-respect.
life is definitely too short to be sat here worrying about how he will feel especially given that MY feelings are of little/no concern to him.
he has been 'talking' to me since he got back. i have given him nothing. when asked to leave the room he refused. more of the "i could make you happy" Get Stuffed!!! If you 'could' make me happy then you 'would' make me happy, you wouldn't be shouting in my face when i cried, or embarrassing me when i asked to talk about how i felt, or shutting me down when i wanted to raise an issue, or laughing at me when i got angry then tell me off like a child.
NO WAY!!!
managed to get keys to my brothers flat next weekend so i will be lounging around in it, relaxing, watching films and eating my weight in Chinese food. something to work towards!!!

Report
TheSilveryPussycat · 06/11/2013 23:26

Party at tweede's bro's flat at the weekend folks!

Seriously, it'll do you the world of good getting away and having some space to yourself.

Report
tweedlezee · 06/11/2013 23:28

Grin Thank you silvery i think it will. must compose a list of films with strong female protagonists.

Report
ColinButterfly · 07/11/2013 07:58

Feeling like a new woman today. Read a few threads on here about DPs that engage in behaviour FW did (being gropey when I was cooking but shunning me when I came onto him, cheating, using porn obsessively) and things I could imagine him doing (losing his job through his own stupidity, using prostitutes) and it sent shivers down my spine. Huge sigh of relief. And yes jackie thinking about the horrible stuff is important at times like this.

Yes I miss him, and yes the rejection etc hurts, but this was not a man I could have sustained a relationship or life with long term. We couldn't have made a happy home or family together. Well we could have had he not been a FW but he was, so end of chat. I want to see my family, go to ballet, have a lovely home, see my friends, not look after a man child. I need to remember this post!

2013 do you know, I've idly wondered, 'if I miss him, I could text him or something'. But I have never been tempted. Part fear but still I haven't wanted to.

noregrets I know, I felt on top of the world at first. So free! Must remember that.

I have a sense of purpose today, and many of them are things I couldn't do with FW about. For instance, my sister is a knackered working mum now. Tonight I'm going to go and pick some bits up for her from the shop and cook her tea so she comes home to that. I have a compulsion to look after people don't I? Least my sister and nephew deserve it and don't take the piss. I have a busy weekend of decorating coming up and I'm excited about having a nice place to live. FW would do anything to have a HOME, well anything bar being a nice human being and letting me give him one! He lives in shitholes in a mess of wank rags and his own filth. Just imagining the smell of his pit is giving me the boak.

Report
Noregrets78 · 07/11/2013 08:33

colin so pleased to hear! Although I now need to get rid of that vision of your FW sitting in his mess of wank rags...

Report
tweedlezee · 07/11/2013 08:37

colinbutterfly thank you for this post. I need to remember this too. it is crazy how the mind plays tricks on you.
yesterday I felt like I was wandering down the road of 'am I doing the right thing' but the FW is a mega FW this morning by telling my son he is wet and though I didn't lay into him I did say he was sort of insulting himself as he helped to make his son. FW is also the reason DS can by whingey. At no point is DS like it with me. DS was whingey, FW went to the shop to get milk and whilst FW was out, DS stopped crying then started straight away when he got up. I think FW likes the attention in whatever form it comes. The fact that he says DS is moaning shows how little insight FW has into his own behaviour.
Man I can't wait to be dancing around my kitchen at breakfast with my happy and calm children. Smile

Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.