Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 27

[CharlotteCollinsinherownplace]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

May join you please? I have read the links you kindly placed at the top. My brain is so mushed though....can I run some things past you wise women so I can check it IS him and not ME please?

ponygirl I plan on taking it one day at a time. I have a place to go if we need it. I am just so loathe to move the kids into a room in a house if he can have some self-control. I have spoken to lots of people. They know what is going on. I am going to speak to the crisis team on Monday (of the women's charity I contacted).
I am still naïve to hope upon hope that we can deal with this in an adult way. his parents are coming over Tuesday and I am telling him he has to tell them what has happened.
maybe he will get worse but I am ever an optimist. I cant help it. I have a really good support network who I can call anytime we need to get out.
I am still going but I have my whole week planned and I am staying at my brothers Friday - sunday.
one day at a time.

Post away Alpha and welcome!

Thank you. I would link to my previous thread, but it went to the secret place and disappeared after 30 days. In a nutshell - I gave birth in January. Got engaged in March. Found out that he was a memeber of a married affair website in April. He said it was a moment of weakness and just internet flirting - was so sorry. In June I found out he had been a member of 2 sites for over 2.5 years (through both of my pregnancies) and had met up with at least 2 women, several times each.

Him. He deflects everything. His first line of defense is attack. He poses questions to try and test me on the truthfulness of my answer. I walk on eggshells trying to phrase things so they don't inflame him. I can't talk to him about any issues as he gets so angry and calls me a c**t. Says he want to punch me (never has). He kicks furniture. When I first found out about the sites he threw a remote at the wall near me (not at me) whilst I was feeding our 12 week old.

He moved out a few months ago, but keeps coming around to see the children. He doesn't respect boundaries, and will read my mail/look through my bags when he is here. I am trying to let him go - but it is so so hard. I feel I love him - but realise it is who I thought he was that I love? Am I co-dependent on his drama?

Money wise - he gets a lot of cash. Will leave me £50 here or £100 there - never anything organised. I don't have access to money as it is all cash.

When I first found out about the sites I was in shock and crying. He said I wasn't fit to look after the children and said he would phone social services.

Why do I still want him to comfort me?

Since I found out about his double life I had a stress induced seizure. When the neurologist said I couldn't drive for / month, he sold my car the next day. I have also just been diagnosed with uterine cancer.

When I met him 5 years ago I had a really well paid professional job, owned a large house, owned a car and had 1 child. Now we are in a (beautiful) rented house. He has sold my car. I have 3 children and am reliant on him for money.

Rant over!

My brain is foggy. I can never work out how I am being unreasonable like he says. I bend over backwards for everybody to do what he wants so he doesn't huff and puff and tut. I don't understand why he is angry with ME for all this?

I think this is EA/VA and FA?

Please help me clarify!

Yes is a cunt, it's not you. I really understand that wanting him to comfort you and thinking it's you I feel that to but yes he's another cunt that can jump off a bridge .

oh alpha in a world of entitled pricks, he would win a prize. what a prime twunt. i know what you meanabput the baffling feeling of wondering why someone who is so far in the wrong is angry with you...for something he has done. he is angry you are not unquestioning in your acceptance of his supreme entitlement.

I think it is time for the freedom program and a solicitor. and also probably the police as what he is doing is illegal as well as reprehensible.

hello ladies - long time lurker and previous poster, though not for quite a while. I've been living with an abusive bastard for 20 years. contemplating leaving for 4ish years. Like breathe , I am guilt tipped, blamed for being selfish, breaking up a lovely family because I am a fuck up etc etc etc. over the years I have just been distancing myself more and more. I sleep separately. Over the past six months, through therapy, I have been engaging less and less with him. He has become financially abusive in the past year. I earn my own money, but he pays the mortgage, which isn't a lot, and nothing else. Tells the children he 'pays everything'.

Anyway, we visited his family last weekend and he was so revoltingly manipulative and vile, then drank himself unconscious, that I lay awake all night thinking about how much I hate him and how I must leave him. Since then, the anger wore off but seems to have given way to a calm feeling of having made a decision. I wasn't 'foggy' in the week, just been thinking I'm going to leave him every day. This feels like real progress to me. Much more solid than years of 'I have to leave/oh but what if it's all just me'.

He kicked off this morning and just would not stop shouting abuse and lies, in a total rage. I was really quiet, said little. I said if he kept shouting I would call the police. He was shouting at the kids about me, telling them hideous lies. He was absolutely going crazy. I walked away and he came after me shouting. I went upstairs to call the police and I could hear him shouting shit about me to the kids, so had to go back down. In the end he went out as he knew I would otherwise call the police. He said he would go out for the day, but started ringing about an hour later. In the meantime I called the police 101 number - first time ever - they were quite supportive. Offered to come out and said if I call 999 they will come straight over. I have an incident number. He called saying he was coming back as it 'wasn't fair on him' and I said there will not be any more shouting in this house. He said 'No Kitty, you are going to have to stop shouting at me'.

Please can someone help me understand, when he's been such a nasty shit, why all my calm I'm going to leave him feelings have been replaced by self doubt? He ran round the house going absolutely crazy at me. I did not shout. He was out of control and scary. And now I'm doubting myself again. How can anyone live with themself for being such a mindfucking idiot? I want to get back to calm. I hate him. I hate him for putting my kids through this and for blatantly lying to them about me. My poor younger child is in a complete state. The older one just says 'It's not my problem', though even she has said on a couple of occasions that she thinks he is insane. So sorry for the essay - I just needed to get this out of me.

Sorry to crash in and I know lots of you are having hellish times. x

MrsMinkBernardLundy - illegal? Which bit?

kitty no apologies necessary on this thread. Did you formulate a plan while in your 'calm, going to leave him' state? Polish the plan while you wait for your emotions to stabilise a bit. It's normal for them to be all over the place once you realise there may be a way out.

alpha I agree with muff and mink. As to feeling comforted, I have found holding myself in a self-embrace/cuddling my old teddy (or even a pillow) goes a little way to helping with this.

kittybiscuits wow, well done for putting all that out there! Just writing it down can be a step in itself I think.
I am in the process of leaving my FW so I have no sense of clarity yet. I am still going through the swings of emotions. You were right to set a boundary re: shouting because it is a shared space and screaming in your face is not ok. it is up to him to walk away and manage his emotions better.
All the first paragraph (guilt tripped) I have been experiencing. I am still experiencing. But the guilt is also your own and you don't have to make it real if you don't want to. My FW spends time telling me about all the horrible things that will happen to me when I leave (getting burgled, being lonely, being poor etc.) but I am reaching the point where I keep thinking "if all you can do is GUILT me into saying, what does that say about you?" I am also aware that the 'problems' I apparently have are showing up more and more as his own insecurities. Therefore putting me down inevitably makes him feel better.
Thank fully I am nearing the end - 9 weeks until I move out of here. I feel very sad to be saying goodbye to the 'notion' of family and the kids do love having us together. But to be put down for so long, to be critiqued and manipulated constantly is just BORING!!!!!!!

Welcome, its the start of a journey, for sure.

Kitty no saying sorry here.
Well done for working all that out even with a headfuck FW.
Just a few years ago, I could have written your post almost word for word:
I pay for nothing everything. Stop being shouted at shouting.
All classic, documented FWittery. I am out now, and you will be, too.
Keep posting here and see if you can find anyone in real life who understands and can help you think through your plan.

silvery I am sat here hugging my (cow) hot water bottle.
Everyone needs a cuddle sometimes

Thanks for your kind comments. silvery I don't thinking I got as far as a plan, but the feeling that I felt sure of leaving was so lovely. Of course I've considered some of the practical issues, but far from a plan.

Tweedle, 9 weeks, hold fast. I understand about what you will miss, but the personal price tag is so awful.

arthritic it feels so strangely comforting to know that someone else has been through the same and has ecaped. I have a brilliant friend in real life, but she just wants me to kick him out - I understand as he is such a nasty shit - but if I kick him out it will be awful for everyone and I will probably cave in. It needs to be planned. My family think he's a lovely bloke and probably wonder how he puts up with me.

alpha afaik the law changed in March this year. Google the legal defintion. sustained and repeated verbal abuse is illegal as it counts as DA. threats of violence are illegal. Repeated emotional abuse is illegal especially if it is coercive. Afaik this applies to repeated or prolonged episodes of abuse where the aim is to coerce, control or restrict the choices of a person with whom there is (or was) a close personal or familial relationship. and any single incident of actual physical violence including e.g. pushing is DA.

So if possible, log all incidents- both note them down and report to 101. This is worth doing because not only does it help alert police to your situation, depending on where you live it can help you get legal aid if you need it and could possibly be used for non molestation order etc.

this May all sound a bit dramatic but you can just log incidents with 101 to have them recorded But not acted on.

And general recommendation to all recent arrivals on the thread, if you can get a copy of Lundy (link above) why does he do that. it will help you see through all the claims that you are shouting, they have changed, that you make them do it etc.

How to leave an abuser

1)Make decision
2) Put decision in box, do not open box, do not look at decision
3) Put emotions in another box, acknowledge emotions, do not act on them, promise yourself you will deal with them when in a safe place
4) Make plans, gather evidence, stay safe, detach
5) Keep it snappy if you can, 6 weeks is enough to do most preparation, legal, financial etc...obviously DC circumstances etc may dictate agenda.
6) Leave, or insist he does, with back up and support for you.
7) Give yourself a time limit before you will look at behaviour, decision etc....8 weeks minimum.
8) Breathe and enjoy the peace of not having to make any decisions in that time. Look after yourself, DCs, gather support. Detach from him and know that you have a timescale
9) Cautiously examine decision in the light of the last months
10) cautiously look at emotions and consider what you need to do to be kind to yourself and promote healing
12) Do freedom programme (online or real life)
11) begin the rest of your life

yes I am being bossy but I really do know how many false starts there are to leaving a FW. They twist and turn in your grasp until you don;t know which way is up.

If you get to the point where you decide enough is enough you need to trust yourself and move forward. After all he can always prove himself to be a non-FW after you separate......

good luck and love to all

he can always prove himself to be a non-FW after you separate......

brilliant sentence. one I need to remind myself of.

last night I got lots of apologies for the way he has 'behaved' (appallingly!) I am sticking to my plan. My week is full of lovely fun stuff.
I told him he has things he has to work on and he needs to do that independent of me. He needs to work on those things for his children.
Because if he reacts the way he has towards me, towards them, they will not want to spend time with him.
With my FW he cannot process his emotions and when he feels under threat/defensive he attacks, aggressively. For a long time I thought these problems were mine. Now I am freeing myself of that guilt and realising these issues are his.
I spoke to the women's DV charity today and they have given me details of people I can speak to about benefits and support after I have moved out. I am hoping to get a couple of sessions with a counsellor. SO that I can have coping mechanisms for dealing with my own emotions.
I cried a lot last night which is the 1st time in a about 3months as I have just been on auto-pilot really.
I am staying at my bros this weekend so hoping that space will help me to relax. Bring on new house, this sofa/futon is going to break my back!!!

Now I am freeing myself of that guilt and realising these issues are his. note to self

fool, I don't know about bossy; I think it's rather helpful to see a structure! I especially like the bit about waiting till you're in a safe place before dealing with emotions.

kitty, on that point, I wanted to say to you: if you always felt calm, that would be unnatural. For years I suppressed my feelings, or detached myself from them or something, because they showed me how controlled I was and I didn't know how to deal with that. Now I have to get used to emotions all over again, and tbh I often wish I could get rid of them and just be calm. But normal people have emotions - ride them out and then use them as useful information. Anger is a totally right (and helpful) thing to be feeling.

last night I got lots of apologies for the way he has 'behaved' (appallingly!)

If they are genuine apologies then he will accept the the fact that his apology may not change your decision and his actions have given you enough reason to leave. i.e. he should not be apologising only to make you cahnge your mind and the apology must not be conditional on you changing your mind not should it extract any price from you at all.

as in I can see I have behaved badly. Whilst I hope you can forgive me, I understand that, under the circumstances, it may not be possible for you to forgive me and I accept that but I want you to know that whatever you decide I am indeed truly sorry.

Not the usual- well i said i am sorry so now you have to get over it.

fool I like that timetable for leaving
once you see it in a list it makes it look so much more possible. and it is of course, very possible. And it makes the process seem like something you could realistically live through.

Or there is the other option (which is the one I took) decide one day you have had enough and this time is the flaming last time. Inform FW this is the last time. The next day when he comes back in the door with the same tired old crap, throw him out.
This (obvioulsy) works a lot better when you have your own house and a FW who knows you will actually have him physically removed this time if he does not leave and the finances to survive. (so I do know I was in a lucky minority). walking out the door and into the nearest refuge is also an option though.

I am not particularly recommending this way- I am just saying this to anyone who is thinking of going, to every woman who has reached the end of her tether and all those who walk on eggshells it is also acceptable, should you reach that point to just act.

There is no specific limit that has to be crossed other than limit of what you will tolerate. And you get to decide where that limit is (not FW).

But the main thing is: Under any circumstances, however, you do it, with a plan or in haste, you have the right to leave. If you are unhappy and you have had enough, you do not need permission.

Mink I think they were genuine apologies because he knows I have to go. I think he does accept that it is his actions which have caused this. My biggest problem is feeling sorry for him. But last night I thought "you have brought this on yourself and I feel no pity"
I am the one who has had stuff thrown at her, been shouted at when suffering with PND, been screamed at when pregnant and struggling to move. And why? Because he cannot separate how HE feels from how I am feeling. Because he cannot process his feelings. Instead of acknowledging his feelings he has just placed them onto me to deal with. So I am dealing with my own emotions and his too. That is unfair.

Today I can barely move. I think through exhaustion. So DS and I have watched 3 films and had lots of cuddles. Bliss!

Hmmmm, sorry because his life is being blown apart and his "way" hasn't worked...
or sorry that his "way" was wrong on every level?

he can feel genuinely sorry that what he did caused you to go but still deny that he was wrong to do it......after all I have no doubt that you "drove him to it".

(mine does this all the time...a real head mess...no non-FW would be able to double think like this!!)

I am sure only he knows the answer to this. Though I would guess it is more sorry that he caused me to go. oh well I hope for the sake of our DC my leaving has an affect on his way of dealing with things.
we have his parents here tomorrow - I wonder if he has told them. I think he may have been apologising yesterday in the vain hope I would cave and he wouldn't have to tell his parents what has happened.
thankfully I have a beautiful new home to look forward to.

Oh heck, more FWery to face with DD3 and contact. She's getting quite distressed about the idea of contact tonight, specifically staying the night at FW's. I've told him I'm collecting her at 6pm, but surprise, surprise, he thinks differently and is sure that what he thinks is what's best for her.

Charlotte, where is your solicitor in this? These are not arguments you want to have on the doorstep.

I don't know what her place is. She's passed us over to mediation - FW's taking his time setting up his initial appointment, so nothing's happening at the moment. I agree with you, but it's not really serious enough to get the legal heavies in, is it?

He's gone quiet now, so perhaps he's going for the argument on the doorstep...