Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 27

[CharlotteCollinsinherownplace]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I've thought about weddings and graduations too. I suppose the thing is, by then we'll be 20 years more mature, more skilled at handling them and hopefully they will be fairly inconsequential to us by then. We may have new partners then. We can ceratinly have been nc for a good few years as the DC will be independent adults themselves. And lets face it, 20 yrs is a long time.

mink I'm at your xFWs finite love theory. So he really thinks that people from bigger families love each individual member less. It shows such a basic misunderstanding of what love actually is.

mink vile behaviour when having a favour done was par for the course with ex FW here. Like i should have been grateful he would let me 'lend' him money etc.

Can you believe how much better I'm doing? FW-less life is AMAZING.

Hello all, im a longtime lurker and infrequent poster.Have namechanged (used to be screamadelica) I think that was at thread 6..back in the day!!
We are 2 years out of a EA marriage but not yet divorced. When I say we, me and 3 dcs.
Ive been thinking about weddings too, and how I will handle having to see exh and be civil to him and his hateful family. I imagine myself sat there..im dreading it but yes 20 ish years down the line who knows??
Im seeing my solicitor next week to re start my divorce. I guess im posting for a bit of support really.

Went nc 8 months ago and its the best thing I did. We dont speak at all..ever! Suits me.

Anyway happy new year and good luck for a brighter future for all.

Well done, IAmMine. My new year's resolution is to get divorced. Well, at least to move in that direction! I am a bit jealous that you have NC at all. Does he have no interest in the DCs or is he communicating through a third party?

Last night, I was looking back at posts I wrote in July to September last year and I can't believe how much I've moved on, just since I moved out in October!

Thanks to all your good sense, I have not offered to pay half and have said basically what you guys said! I await his response with - well, something bordering apathy, really (very different from how I was in October/November). I will fume briefly when his email comes in, no doubt, but I have my own life to live now.

I too am at FW theory of finite love as described by Mink's ex. Did anyone else sing at school that silly little song about love being like a magic penny? I was teaching it to DD2 recently, as I loved it at that age.

Love's just like a magic penny,
Hold it tight and you won't have any,
Lend it, spend it, and you'll have so many,
You'll end up having more.

Very true, if rather twee!

Oh, and I think when we get to those future family celebrations, we'll be past masters at speaking to those we wish to speak to, while saying something briefly polite and then escaping from those we don't. I suppose we could even practise now, by thinking of all the people we like who we hope will be there!

Hi everyone I was mincedmuff

Ive decided to ring ss Monday morning, it's a really big deal for me as I was in care myself so I have such a fear of them swooping in and taking my dc. I just can't decide what's best for dd I really need someone in that sort of position to either say no contact for dd, supervised contact or safe contact between her and him.

He is being fucking horrible atm, this phone thing is really not working. He uses it to get at me and spite dd.

I just don't know what I'm doing and if I'm doing the best for dd or not. He's so horrible. Am not scared don't think he will kick off anymore or hurt me again but he's playing horrible games with dd.

Will ss help me? Has anyone done this before or had involvement?

charlotte I remember that song. Taken me back nearly 30 years!

back2 I remember you but not the whole story. I have no experience of SS but I'm sure someone else here will. But it sounds like you could do with some expert help so hopefully SS will help. I think it's natural that you're worried that they'll take your dc away. What I've tended to read on here is that they're most likely to remove dc from the mothers that don't involve SS when they should have done, not those that seek the help they need. Well done you for being brave and doing it

It's a really big can of worms bounty

Nye he told dd he wanted to pick us up from the pub and dd got all flustered that we took a taxi home.

He has shouted at her for not answering her phone, telling her she should always have it on her even if I say to leave it at home.

Today he rang her and got her sister on the phone, basically saying if mummy would let you come you could be here to.

Then he rang me lost his temper saying I have a such an attitude problem. I hung up then rang him back later saying if my attitude stinks its because you've shat all over me, how can you expect me to smile and be nice after all you have done to me. He lost his rag again and is now saying he won't bring her brothers to her party next weekend as I'm so crazy.

Dd is expecting her brothers and him to be there and is going to be so disappointed. I'm fed up of all of this someone needs to sort it out as I can't.

He does sound a nightmare :(. Something needs to change for your dd's sake I agree

And your sake too.

Are her brothers his dc not yours? If so I guess you can't make him bring them. Perhaps set dd up for them not to be there so it's a surprise if they are?

Thanks bounty. Yes it really does need to change. It's really not fair for dd to have this emotional abuse to deal with as that's what it is.

She is expecting them to be there, she asked him to bring them and he told her they were coming. I will tell her tomorrow that they're not now so she has enough time to get over it/used to it and not be upset on her birthday.

I wish I knew the best thing to do, I feel I need to protect dd but am I over reacting and just making things worse. I hope ss will help, I feel so responsible.

mincedmuff I've had involvement from SS. A couple of times actually - once following a referral from the mediator, once following a referral from DD's school. They were really helpful on the phone, and following their involvement I felt in a stronger position - able to say 'well this is in line with SS recommendations'.

I don't have the same background as you, from being in care, but I can understand your fears. The first time they were a bit harsh along the lines of 'you're the mother, we can't make those decisions for you'. As others have said - they want to see that you're doing what's needed to protect DCs. But if it's worded that you want to know what a reasonable course of action would be, but you have no problem following through on it, they seemed fine.

Good luck x

Thanks noregrets that's good to know how to word it.

I think I want that same validation of ss recommends to feel that I'm doing the right thing.

muff again I have no ss involvement but another poster on this thread had similar issues with her dd and texts / phone.
Ss were involved. they were unimpressed with him. and the dcs are afaik nc with him now.

I would be wary of saying her dbs won't be there unless you know he will make good his threat. might be an idea to be more non commital and just say you are not sure if they are still going to be able yo make it. Do you have any contact with their dm? Perhaps she could arrange for dd to see them another time. it is her party to chances are see will be so excited it won't spoil it too much.
I think you may need o take legal advice and get him handed a stark warning about emotionally abusing the dcs. Ask a sol but i think it May be grounds for nc.

charlotte i know. the change in you and in bounty is amazing. there was noticeable change the second you moved out and then further gradual change. the most obvious is you both used to sound so uncertain of yourselves (unsurprising with a FW making you doubt everything you did). Now you are much more decisive, clear and confident. amazing how clear it all is out of the FOG. makes me so happy for you both.

Thanks mink

I was thinking of saying on the phone I feel my dd is at risk of emotional abuse and neglect (when he puts her in the car even though theres no seat for her to sit in with a seat belt, he drink drives sometimes I have stopped dd going before when he was drinking a bottle of beer while trying to pick her up I think thats neglect?) and asking them to assess if its safe for my dd and in her best interests. Or I will say what no regrets said and ask them whats a reasonable course of action to take.

I don't think they will be there, I wonder if he's made this drama on purpose and had no intention of bringing them anyway, it wouldn't surprise me.

Hey Charlotte
We dont communicate at all. If I need to its through the dcs. They are teenagers so are ok to pass on my request for money towards uniforms or their music lessons. Thats it though.I never ask him for help with aanything else regarding dcs, house ( which he still jointly shold be paying for but doesn't ) I do get a paltry maintenance though.
He picks them up on a Sunday at 1ish and drops them off at 6 ish. Thats all he has to do with their lives. I maintain that they can see him whenever they like. They seem satisfied with 7 hours a week??!! So is he...how crap is that?
3 weeks ago there was an incident where my middle ds was the butt of some jokes at mil his df was winding him up and as ds is going through that stage, at nearly 13, of pushing boundaries he told his df to f**k off. Not that I advocate this sort of behaviour but I understand and personally would have decided to let him cool off before challenging it.
My exh decided to lose his temper and try to stop him leaving the house as ds tried to get through the door exh tried to stop him by slamming it shut on his head and knocking him out. My eldest ds flew at his df calling him an effing retard!! In his brothers defence.
Exh was obviously quite upset that he had done this but instead of going to pick his son up from the floor he stood there shouting "ffs his mums going to phone the police on me now"
He brought them home and actually stood at the door and told me he'd accidentally shut the door onto ds head. He said he didnt do it on purpose. I replied I hope you didn't cos that would make you a psycho!!
I thanked him in a very sarcastic tone and shut the door.
Then I got the full story from dcs. Who were very upset by the whole thing as was I.
My dcs don't have this around them anymore and ds was very sore for a few days.
We spent a while discussing it and he talked it through with me so I think hes ok mentally and understands that its just not normal behaviour and that its not his fault.
He did however lie to the doctor too say that nobody was angry with him.
Im sorry if all this has come out in a big rant but i just needed to get it off my chest.

Hi it's me muff can't be arse to go on laptop to nc again back to muff.

I spoke to my mum earlier and I feel so much better. She agrees with me 100% about stopping contact and also listed a few other equally fucked up things to cement my mind on this.

She said to sit dd down and explain its not like dd is stupid. To say what he does is breaking the law and dd could get seriously hurt so that's why daddy can't have her no more as he won't keep her safe. That because of his phone calls being horrible and spiteful because he's not grown up in his head enough dds number is being changed. I will say this later before bed. She said to say shes going to have a break from daddy and if he changes grows up and becomes more responsible then she can start seeing him again.

I sent him a short email saying contact will be stopped completely no phone calls and if he wants to speak to me it's email only. If he wants to take me to court then he can but as he doesn't pay child support I really really doubt he's going to do this. He wouldn't want to spend the money.

Sounds like a good plan muff. I'd forgotten about the no seatbelt thing. That's plain bad parenting and there was no excuse for it, so really you have no other option. I'm glad to hear your mum is being supportive.

IAmMine - that is scary! You say your XH was upset, but clearly he was more upset about what would happen to him than what had happened to his DS. Complete FW.

And of course he sees nothing wrong in his behaviour - as well as giving cooling off time, you and I would also probably admit that the teasing had been unhelpful... but your X helpfully forgets that detail of the incident.

If it literally knocked him out, that is quite some force. Does DS want to see him at the moment? Do you want to encourage him to have a month or two break from contact?

Muff, good decision. I think your DD will be much happier with NC.

I spoke to dd, kept it short and just said because mummy can't trust daddy to keep you safe and not break the law mummy can't let you go with daddy for a while. Daddy still hasn't grown up on the inside so we are going to leave daddy alone for a few months and then see if he's grown up any more.

She seems perfectly fine with this and was even quite happy. Seems quite final but I don't have another choice really.

muff well done you have done the right thing.

Iammine love your nn i am totally at your x though. might be worth asking your ds about reporting it to 101? It is your call but I am a bit concerned that if he did that once and there were no consequences he might feel he got away with it but I suppose it depends on how the ds feel about it.
Any idiot knows slamming doors is dangerous.
I am not sure though. Maybe others would give different advice?

My ex was so controlling with EVERYTHING. Money, bills the house, what we did, how I raised my daughter shouted at me in front of my daughter, grabbed me, left bruises on my arms. I didn't realize it until I got out and STILL he is trying to control me. I have had to go to the police and he has broken his bail conditions already after less than a month. I don't want to stop him seeing his daughter but he needs to see that Idont wantmy girl around people who behave like he does....its not right. I don't know what to do...as well as all this I had another ex punch me while I was out with my sister. I am feeling like complete shit! Why do I bother......

Hello. I have already met some of you on my thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1948490-DH-giving-me-the-silent-treatment-but-denies-he-is-doing-it

Not much has changed. He talks to me a little, but most of the time he avoids me. He is always "too tired" in the evenings (even though he had 10 hours of uninterrupted sleep the night before, whereas DC3 woke me up every half hour). He waits until I have left the table to eat.
And I am still not brave enough to say anything, because I know he will once again deny that there is anything wrong.

I am still massively overeating. Later today I will have to go and find the boxes with my old, bigger clothes. Every day I try to stop self-harming with food, and I fail.

sss Welcome. I recognise you. sorry he is still treating you so badly.

crushed welcome to you too. your ex's sound appalling. sorry you have been through this.

I have to dash but just wanted to welcome you both to the thread. keep posting you will get lots of support and understanding here. and I hope today is a better day than yesterday.

eeurgh waves limply
9 days until I move house. access is the new 'ishoo'.
I am exhausted!!! and veryvery angry.
he is chopping and changing and his emails are mostly based around how he works and I don't so therfor he should have the kids in the evening (whilst I do childcare during the day) and he has the weekend off but will grace them with his presence Saturday daytime whilst I am at college. he will not agree to alternate weekends.
I am at my mothers and about to kill her as any visible show of emotion makes her cross with me as apparently "she hurts too".
So can anyone out there word the following in such a way that I can email it to FW; I need to say that he can see his kids every other weekend and that all other occasions (birthday, holidays etc) will be dealt on an ad-hoc basis.

I have had 3 emails, all with different variables, none of which are consistent or suitable and none of which are actually 'child centred'. I will not be bullied into doing what he wants. but I now he will not stop until I do.

Tweedle can you write out a few variations o what your trying to say and maybe we can cherry pick the main points out? Short to the point with no room for arguing. Do you really want Christmas and birthdays adhoc? Do you think alternate years alternate days could work so everyone knows where they stand and you don't had to ask him or keep him on his good side to get Christmas iyswim?

Iam I would ring the police and not let my son go over to his again. If he can lose control enough to knock him out cold he can do worse. That's assault, he assaulted your son and that's not an over reaction. I think we are all so used to minimising their crap behaviour we don't see clearly enough what they're actually doing. Ring them and see what they say, even if nothing comes out of it and your son still goes round to see him knowing that you would ring the police is a deterrent to stop more of this. If you don't he might think he got away with it so to speak and won't hold back next time.

Hi everyone new. (waves)