Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 27

[CharlotteCollinsinherownplace]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Tried to post last night, but MN wouldn't let me.

Anyway, this is what I wanted to put:

A very Happy New Year from me and - guess who? - ChristmasSprite :)

I've been trying to post this since quite early on last night

a much better and spritely New Year to all

think yarnbombing is really gonna be a 'thing' this year redmapleleaves

luffs you all -

informed by sparkly 'I must help myself'

Sorry its taken me a while to reply - thank you quiet coach for your comments. Yes, the older ones would be more careful about what they tell him, but my DD has been very good friends with OW since they got together ("best friends" on facebook! ) and they talk about anything and everything, so I know whatever I discuss with DD will get back to them one way or another, even if it just starts as friendly chat about what's happening at home.

I'm trying to detach from the things he says to DC but its difficult not to join in the conversation when they're talking about texts he sends them and the awful things I've (apparently) said and done.

After FW's behaviour last night he is typically unrepentant. Im being polite for DD's sake but the minute she goes to bed I'll not be speaking to him again for the rest of the night.

Interestingly, my mum told me that my sister's partner (who is lovely - all of them witnessed him last night) said when I was out of the room "Nini deserves better".

This is the first time anyone's ever said that to me, esp my family who have always been very forgiving of him. Its a sentence I'll cling to this year.

My next exam is in 3 weeks so I'm going to be preoccupied with studying until then, but after that, time for plans to finally take shape. Strength and love.

yes Nini strength and love.. i'm saying too ' nini deserves better '

sending you more strength and focus (which you seem to have in abundance already!) for your exam and particularly plans

Hi,

I'm not new to mumsnet but new to this thread. Have been a lurker though and every time there's an incident at home I'm tempted to post here, but far too nervous. It's such a big step. My DH is the perfect man 85% of the time, but the remaining 15% he's a complete arse and every bone in my body shouts "Run!", then when it's all forgotten about and when we're laughing and joking it's like the bad bits never happened. Only now the bad bits are getting more frequent.

I'm sorry for everyone on this thread and the tough things they are going through. Hope 2014 brings a better life for you all.

By the way, I've NC. If this hell continues I may become a regular on this thread, but for now, introducing myself is a start.

Hi Keeping, I'm right there with you. I'm still with FW because it's too easy to forget the bad bits, why do we do that?

Had a hellish drive to town, the nasty comments and aggression were all forgotten by the end of the day, although I won't be able to let him touch me for a while. He says that's because I bear grudges. Aaaaargh!

well done for ringing the changes in 2014 Keeping & Horse

sorry to hear of horrible strifes tho

coming here I think helps with the listening to the 'run screams' !

Is a 'run scream' a more severe version of a 'red flag'?

ha!.. one and the same!

Hello all and particularly to the newcomers and the occasional posters.

Happy New Year - hope it will bring improvements for us all.

I have kept DD3 back from the holiday that I felt was too long for her. He was not happy and I felt myself weakening as soon as the first lengthy email from him came through. Just as well I was staying with my DPs as they laughed incredulously at some of the stuff he said and that helped strengthen my resolve!

DD2 said (when I told her when she would next be with me), "Now I can see why it's too long for DD3!" Funny how an 8yo can see it, but not a grown man, who is also their father...

Anyway, pfft to all that. I am back home after a lovely Christmas break and am unexpectedly happy to be home, full of plans and looking forward (although a bit nervous) to starting work next week.

Oh yes, forgot to say that he is expecting payment for the plane ticket DD3 hasn't used and will be deducting it from maintenance payments if I don't cough up...

I'm thinking I might offer to pay half (goodwill gesture as I only talked about it very close to the event), but I think he should pay the other half because he booked it before discussing it with me. Oh, but he's denying that so I'm not sure I'll get anywhere with that.

Ask him to prove you agreed to it before he booked it. if he asked you by email it should be easy enough for home to prove. if he deducts it from maintenance tell him you will be noting it as once he starts making deductions it is a slippery slope.

And Happy New Year.

I'm the same horsetowater with regards to the touching after he's been a dick.

I know all about red flags. Have lurked on her and read the Why Does He Do That book.

Was living in ignorance for nearly 15 years, then after my husband was involved in a very series incident his behaviour deteriorated. Ended in me phoning the police as he was aggressive towards me & DC. I then read the book, had a wake up call, challenged him on all his behaviour. He had councilling, is on medication and is still a dick. Only now I don't let anything slide and pull him up on it each time he's a total knob.

Since Nov. incidents have been regular at one a fortnight. He stormed out of NY Day dinner with my family with no explanation or apology and last night DD1 said he refused to read her a bedtime story, shouted at her, then when it was dark a toy 'landed on her head'.

Incidentally, DD1 told him only a few days ago that his NY resolution should be to stop talking to mum in an angry voice. And when DD2 found me crying the othe day, she asked 'What did Daddy do?". Broke my heart. She's not even 3.

I have a credit card and I've managed to save some money, both of which are in my name only.

hey Charlotte! him booking something up and paying for it without any discussion with the primary carer sounds like he is completely responsible for bearing that cost? I don't think you would expect someone to pay for something you had booked [for them but not on their behalf]?

ooo dear Keeping for the attitude from him treating children like things to punish for his own frustrations, rather than having adult reactions to treat children like precious little people always, being protective of, and caring towards. eeeuuurch... nasty FW

You are planning, it won't be long... you take care x

Eventually the bad bits will outweigh the good. Incidents for me were few and far between at first and when he realised he could get away with it, more frequent and more outlandish. I thought challenging it would make it better but it made everything more tempestuous. His demands didn't change. They were as frequent as ever. But when I didn't protest (even if I wasn't happy) that was fine with him. When paying for everything, doing everything grated on me and as he got more complacent, the arguments got worse. It was a constant battle.

I had a bit of a breakthrough discussing with my friend last week who asked if I was ever happy with him. I was happy at first, I was consumed by him in a good way (head over heels). But that got replaced by disatisfaction, resentment, depression at losing my sense of self, under strain trying and failing in meeting all of his needs. I went from being mostly happy and fed up once every now and then to crying every day of my life. Yet still I thought I loved him and couldn't live without him, that he was my soulmate. I'm so glad he fucked off with his OW because I don't think I would have left him of my own accord. I went to speak with women's aid a good six months prior to this as well. Was posting on here ages. Talking the talking, seeing and feeling things for what they were but still not able to get out. Everytime we had an argument and he said it was over, I thought 'phew' but then he'd snap his fingers as if nothing had ever happened. I don't know what I was thinking now.

It's been a long road for me post split, processing it all. I am now feeling happier than I've felt in ages. The only thing I was sad about was that I desperately wanted a baby, not just a baby but I did specifically want his. I now see that he is not fit to be my baby's father and that it's better that I didn't go down that road for me. He once flew into a rage that I loved my nephew more than I loved him! Love is not a finite resource and anyway, in the one year my nephew has been with us, I would say the relationship I have with him is FAR MORE reciprocal than what I had with FW. The only words he knows are 'mama', 'dada', 'banana' and 'brum brum'! The look on his face when you give him food tells you he appreciates you and he's not even verbal. When I made FW breakfast in bed, I just got grunted whether there was brown or red sauce on his bacon roll (used to change his mind all the time, keep me on my toes).

Your poor DDs keeping. Its shocking how much they pick up on so early.

And poor you as well keeping. You'll be out one day :)

Charlotte good for you for keeping DD back. And I agree with Sprite, you wouldn't ask someone to reimburse something they bought for a child without consultation with the carer first. Its a sunk cost. No extra cost to him that she didn't go. There isn't a financial implication to going against decisions that FWs make unilaterally.

Colin aw about your nephew and the reciprocity of a preverbal kid. That is some comparison.

Here I had a financial discussion with FW. He has been around needing my support over Xmas and the New Year and has been charming. Today I discussed the need for maintenance for the kids and me. 'But I have costs too.' he said, and turned me down. FFS. I reminded him I have both kids full time as he is abroad, I am working full time earning less than half what he does, he has his accommodation and all bills covered, and what I am asking for is less than 2/3 of what we used to live off when we had accommodation/bills covered, in a much cheaper country. His earnings at present just need to cover food and his pocket money. And I literally can't do it. Somehow he seems to think the redmaplefairy will cover all his obligations. Or is it about not wanting to look reality/my/the kids needs in the eye? I was really horrified. I know it is all of a piece with how he was when we were together, but I didn't think he would really sell us down the river and let us struggle to pay essential bills.

I think you need proper legal advice redmaple At the end of the day it is his responsibility to provide for his children, whether he wants to or not. He cannot just say no.

keeping once a fortnight sounds exhausting. So sad for the DC (well all of our DC ) that they witness this. It will be your DC that give you the courage and strength to leave though. Keep squirrelling and keep planning. Are your family supportive now they've seen him 'in action'.

colin you have come a long way :) And one day you will meet a man who actually deserves to father your children. You will be so glad that you waited. And until then enjoy your gorgeous nephew :)

charlotte I'm so so pleased to hear that you've kept DD3 back. For her sake obviously, but also yours. It really shows how much progress you've made, being able to stand up for what you believe. I'm sure that now you'll have no problem at all in standing up to him over the plane ticket. What a FW. He really is financially motivated isn't he? I hope he filled you in on the details as to where he is taking the rest of the DC. And really pleased to hear that you had a great christmas

redmaple I think it is a mark of the FW that they can be as nice as pie when you are doing them a favour but when you ask for one from them they flex their muscles to feel their power.
Saying no to you gives him the ability to hurt you and make your life difficult. Also he puts himself first second and third so the minor (!) issue of supporting his own children has no attraction for him.

I think when I was an obedient wife and went along with FWs demands and controlling ways he was easier to deal with. Now I am divorced and see him for what he is (a manipulative controlling bully) he is much more mulish and determined to get his own way.

I second getting legal advice. Even if he is abroad and outside the reach of the CSA a strongly worded letter from a solicitor might shame him into paying.

Hi all

Has anyone heard from that's lately? Have I missed a nc?

Re. being nice when wanting a favour. one of my xFW behaviors was being absolutely vile when you were doing him a favour. all kinds of threats and stipulations. I found it very and .

Colin glad it is all coming out. you are do right he would have made an appalling dad. selfish men don't change because they have dc their selfishness just
grates even more.

And yy to the FW theory of finite love. mine actually said imagine you have 100 pennies,.now allocate some of those to your parents, some to your siblings, your friends etc. he said that once we had kids there was not enough of my love left for him.and that is what caused our split. Apparently the dcs took.some of his share. he actually genuinely believes this. he used to demand to know what percentage of my love he got.

still i notice once he stopped loving me none of his reclaimed love surplus got spent.on the dcs.
In fact the way he treats them compared to dsc you can see that he actually believes there was insufficient resource for them from the start.

And of course what he really means is i had less time or inclination to either put up with hs tantrums or to carry him.

Kouign ^ I think it is a mark of the FW that they can be as nice as pie when you are doing them a favour but when you ask for one from them they flex their muscles to feel their power.

YYY. I hadn't understood this before. It is so different from how a normal person operates. But yes. This is exactly right.

and Mink ^he said that once we had kids there was not enough of my love left for him.and that is what caused our split. Apparently the dcs took.some of his share. shock he actually genuinely believes this. YY mine said this too. No sense of reciprocity at all.

It does make me gobsmacked to hear their words cold. And makes the hair on my arms stand up.

Thank you all for your advice. I will go and get more legal advice. The conversation I had was after legal advice and, foolishly, I thought he would agree. I realise I've played it wrong too. To play to win by FW rules, should have had the financial conversation at the start of Xmas when he needed my support, should have sent the process server with the divorce papers he is pretending he hasn't received, when I knew where he was, on Christmas Day. But I just couldn't do that to the DCs, who are finding it hard enough as it is.

I had a nightmare last night where I dreamed of big family celebration for DD1 (?wedding), where I had to remeet all FW's relations, who are FW squared. Sinking feeling when I woke up that of course this is likely to be the reality. ARgh. But maybe twenty years off....