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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Do I leave my ill wife?

969 replies

cricketnut77 · 30/10/2013 12:13

Hi everyone,
I am new to this site (I came here for some independent female and maybe male advice) from people who don’t know me.

I'm 35 my wife is 38 and I've been married to her for 8 years and we have a 9 year old boy who is by far the most important thing in my life. Things were great for the first few years of marriage but then my wife developed problems with her kidneys (inherited) and had to go on dialysis. This made her very tired but we struggled on, she went part-time at work. We still went on holidays and had nice times but she had lost her spark and any get up and go..

Anyway just over 2 years ago we had the great news that she was to have a kidney transplant and they had found a good match. So she had the transplant and we both expected it to transform our lives. Well after a couple of weeks she got a MRSA type infection and a couple of other things meant she was extremely ill and was in hospital for nearly 5 months. She also lost a lot of weight (she went down from 11 stone to 7) and she became very frail. I had a lot of time off work when she came out of hospital and she gradually has got better. However she is still much weaker than she was and she has less energy than she had when she was on dialysis.

She has gone back to work part time even though it leaves her shattered and refuses to leave her job, the money is useful but we could manage without it. She spends most weekends napping on the sofa and very rarely has the energy to do anything with our son. He is very active and sporty, very well behaved and understands she is not well but I think he is a little resentful that she doesn't do much with him.

Probably the hardest thing for me to deal with is the lack of physical affection she shows me, I give her a kiss and a cuddle but she barely reciprocates and we have not had sex since we she had the transplant. I have spoken with her several times- each time she has told me she is not ready for it yet even though it is a year since she started back at work. The physical / sex drive thing went down a lot when she was on dialysis which I understood to be normal but now I feel so down about it as I have a high sex drive and making love with her in the early days was so great. One of the reasons I married her was she was so good in bed!!

I have been tempted to have an affair but haven’t - there are two women I know who have admitted to me they like me but until now I always wanted to give my wife the time she deserves.

I am not going to rush into any quick decisions but I feel that I am trapped in a loveless marriage. I am an outgoing person - I love going out and enjoying myself both with my mates and my wife but she never has any energy. It’s like being married to an 85 year old. I am an optimistic person but I don't think she will ever be near the woman I married and she will always be poorly. I know that this is not her fault which is why it is so hard but I am so unhappy.

If I leave I am willing to give her everything, house, car, possessions apart from my boy who I am certain would rather live with me. I still care deeply about my wife and would still look after her when I can. I understand that if I did leave her family (who like me - and I get on really well with - will probably hate my guts)

I know this makes me sound very selfish and probably I am but we only get one life in this world.

Any thoughts? How much time should I give her?

Many thanks in advance - I know this is very long!!

OP posts:
cricketnut77 · 01/11/2013 10:43

Well I’d to like to thank all the people on here who have posted on here. Even the abusive ones as it reaffirms my view that are a lot of nasty, bitter, judgmental people out there who see things mainly in black and white. I’m a big boy I can take it, but your abuse is based on ignorance, why don’t you do something useful with your life rather than spending hours on the internet slagging folks off with problems.

And then there are some wonderful and wise people who have helped me see the whole picture and given me so much insight. This is going to be a very long road for me and my family but I have resolved to work very hard on my marriage. It may be that we split up but it won’t happen until we have exhausted all the options available to us and that includes counselling. If it does happen then I won’t disappear, I will still support her financially and emotionally and talk of me taking our son away is rubbish.

A couple of points to make about this forum and my experience of it. I came on here and posted as I was so frustrated with the way my married life was turning out. I maybe am depressed, I would say “down” though. If I could I would probably change some of the wording of my original post but I spoke from the heart and I’m not the best writer. Some people have analysed my words in detail and made big things out of them, for example me saying “my boy” like he’s mine and not hers. It’s just a way of talking, of course he’s OUR boy but that’s just the way I talk sometimes. Don’t try and twist my words or read in to things that aren’t there.
I think that the forum is a bit male bashing but that’s understandable it is called MUMSnet for god’s sake. I also think that some of the forum is a bit middle class and can be intolerant of people who struggle to get their thoughts down on the page. So when a chap comes on here requesting advice and maybe his post is badly worded give him a bit of slack. Having said that I’m glad I came on here. Thank you for your time x.

OP posts:
Bowlersarm · 01/11/2013 10:46

I'm glad you got something out of starting the thread OP. For what it's worth I think you got an unnecessarily hard time, but I'm pleased some posters have been able to help you. Good luck.

paperlantern · 01/11/2013 10:49

oh and the working thing, this is something you need to discuss jointly preferably in counselling or in a way that gives you both a voice.

Yes she may be getting a sense of identity for the work, but if you feel very strongly that the money isn't necessary and it is impacting on her ability to engage at home there needs to be a compromise or at least an open discussion.

The fact you don't seem to have had a frank and open discussion about how you feel about this and how she feels about this is kinda indicative of having got to the stage where you are no longer functioning as a couple. Noone is going to feel like sex (with each other) at this point. You really do need to take some time to take stock (together) evaluate how both of your lives has changed and how you make those changes bareable for both of you.

Weekend aways are lovely but if you never address the problems in the first place they will still all be there when you get back

misdee · 01/11/2013 10:50

sorry for my earlier harshness, as I said I've left hubby in hospital in a not good way yesterday and am waiting to see whats the plan after his tests today.

I say 'my boy/girl' in regard to our children, of course they are my husbands as well, but he also says 'my' when alone.

life after transplant isn't easy. there are highs and lows. probably more lows for you atm.

your wife probably feels a bit sad about how married life has turned out, nobody expects this way of life. there are days when I hate how much it dominates our lives, the way that 90% of days out is just me and the children as dh is asleep again. but the children are great and just accept that dad will never be normal and able to do as much as I can with them. he is the 'cinema' man, he does the easier trips out where he doesn't have to run about after them.

cut all of yourselves some slack, get yourselves sorted and maybe look at different ways of living outside of the norm.

kotinka · 01/11/2013 10:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

payhisdebt · 01/11/2013 11:10

all the best Cricket and I agree completely with your last post

fromparistoberlin · 01/11/2013 11:16

i agree some people have been atrociously behaved

rude, abusive and uncompassionate

I hate to use the term "man hater", but.....

OP you speak sense, I think in all conscience you need to "try" before you make any significant decisions

good luck

PottedPlant · 01/11/2013 11:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

paperlantern · 01/11/2013 11:19

Can I say I think your attitude to the slating you got is wrong though.

"I’m a big boy I can take it, but your abuse is based on ignorance"

Wrong please do look at why posters were writing what they wrote

Whilst some of us can understand why you might be having not so good thoughts right now, you do need to recognise that some of what you said is completely unacceptable.

Sometimes saying water off a ducks back is the wrong thing to do, you should be hurt by what some of the people have said because you care about your wife and what you wrote was hurtful to her.

My concern is that this too is indicative of the disconnect that has happened between you and your wife.

TiredDog · 01/11/2013 11:20

Best wishes cricket. You sound like an honest chap who is not washing his hands of his commitments

paperlantern · 01/11/2013 11:28

I know not everyone finds Welcome to Holland helpful, but I know more people who have than haven't so I still recommend it.

I think essentially one of the things it is highlighting is whilst you may commit to "in sickness or in health" either through getting married or having a child very rarely do you have a clue what that commitment actually really entails unless things get really difficult.

Some people slide into making that work for them but I think most need a lot of self awareness, time and self-care to make that happen, at a time when often those things are totally lacking.

not2nitedarling · 01/11/2013 11:29

I think I have heard and had enough too xx

paperlantern · 01/11/2013 11:32

Or the fact that when you are caring often the process of what is the best course of action for us as a unit isn't static, it may well be constantly changing.

Work is a classic example, whether or not to work what the right level of work is may change for both carer and "caree". Spotting when something is no longer working can be hard and getting right even harder.

Littleen · 01/11/2013 12:45

I can actually sympathise a lot, but as many others I believe that couples counselling - perhaps also individual counselling is a must here. I also think your son needs someone on the outside to talk to, it can't be easy for him to deal with. Perhaps when progress is made between you two, she would be more open to having a properly intimate relationship with you. Perhaps she could cut down on the hours she works - just a little bit. She probably wants to work to keep a part of herself. I'm currently someone who needs a lot of care from my other half, and the guilt and sadness, and shock over him staying, is unbelievable. She might have similar feelings. On the other hand, if you feel unloved, that is also a major issue, whether she is sick or healthy. Don't try to deal with this on your own, but get some help. Wish you all the best, and make sure you try every option out there to repair your relationship.

ithaka · 01/11/2013 13:05

This is going to be a very long road for me and my family but I have resolved to work very hard on my marriage. It may be that we split up but it won’t happen until we have exhausted all the options available to us and that includes counselling. If it does happen then I won’t disappear, I will still support her financially and emotionally and talk of me taking our son away is rubbish.

Well done Cricket, I think you have responded very well and maturely to some very unpleasant posts and I am glad the more helpful ones have enabled you to see a clearer way forward.

I wish you and your family all the best, whatever the future holds for you all.

Treen44444 · 01/11/2013 13:09

Seek legal advice if you do leave, make sure you fight for your child

arthriticfingers · 01/11/2013 13:43

I will leave this thread with some final comments for the OP:
Even the abusive ones as it reaffirms my view that are a lot of nasty, bitter, judgmental people out there who see things mainly in black and white
MN is moderated; 'abusive' reports are reported - there is no need, whatsoever, for you to confirm your view of 'bitter judgmental people'
I’m a big boy I can take it, but your abuse is based on ignorance, why don’t you do something useful with your life rather than spending hours on the internet slagging folks off with problems
as I said above, there is no need to be so stoical. Either MN is not doing their duty by removing 'abusive' posts, or the word 'abusive' is being bandied about to cover those post the OP finds uncomfortable. The talk board, as I see it, is for robust debate - Robust in the sense that any debate includes posters strongly disagreeing - disagreeing is not, by any stretch of the imagination 'abusive'. Again - any 'abuse' can and should be reported - no 'big boy' about it'
I have resolved to work very hard on my marriage. It may be that we split up but it won’t happen until we have exhausted all the options available to us and that includes counselling
I do not believe that posters suggesting counselling were advocating such a grim and unforgiving view of being with another person. If a partner took that view of a relationship with me, it would break my heart.
If it does happen then I won’t disappear, I will still support her financially and emotionally
This is the third time the OP has insisted on his 'willingness' to provide financial support' - is it any wonder his wife feels it is so important to continue to work and to support herself and contribute to the keeping their son? Not seen much evidence of continued emotional support in the posts. That is not to say that such support has not been there - just that none is evident from the postings.
If I could I would probably change some of the wording of my original post but I spoke from the heart and I’m not the best writer.
In life, unfortunately, you can never 'unsay' things - the 'heart' should be used to look honestly at what was said, not wriggle out of it.
I think that the forum is a bit male bashing
support for this view - in the form of concrete examples - would make this comment worth making. Vague accusations that hypothetical, unspecified women posters in the same situation would get 'different' answers does not qualify as proof of 'male bashing.
some of the forum is a bit middle class and can be intolerant of people who struggle to get their thoughts down on the page.
Goodness alone knows where evidence for that comment came from! Shock
when a chap comes on here requesting advice and maybe his post is badly worded give him a bit of slack. Sorry, but 'men' are subject to the same rigour, here, as women in their posts.
This is a final comment from someone who is working class and knows a far deal about living with chronic illness.

MrsDeVere · 01/11/2013 13:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fromparistoberlin · 01/11/2013 13:51

arthritic

you are doing exactly what OP said, taking his words line by line and dissecting them

the reason abusive posts have not been reported is sadly, we are all too used to them. I read at least 10 posts that made me wince

what I am saying is that on MN people often do this, copy and paste a sentance back and then dissect it. IMHO opnion its lands badly, and it lands as confrontational

livelaughlearn · 01/11/2013 14:08

flip the situation round - imagine you're very sick (sex might be literally impossible but assume you're too weak to want it anyway) - imagine she's the carer ..

would you tell her to go and have an affair? that she should leave you cos you can't be a "true" husband any more? or would you expect her to adapt to the changed circumstances?

adapt I suspect!

but don't beat yourself up : you have tried to adapt and have resisted an affair. and being honest about your feelings is more likely to save your marriage than hiding them.

Sounds like you were close, but now are not: making conversation difficult.

Counselling might help: stop you both being entrenched within your own perspectives and provide a neutral environment. Your wife is much more entitled to the sympathy vote as she is ill, but if you as carer feel martyred and unloved (because no affection, let alone sex, the marriage may crumble tthen no-one - your son included - wins).

Affection, seems reasonable to express your wish for this at least? (a cuddle, holding hands etc) - perhaps she resists because she thinks you will then want sex (which she does not want)?

Sex - she needs to feel sure enough in your ongoing support to be honest, seems fair if you wish to express the distress you feel, even if it does not distress her .. given it was (presumably very important to you both before).

Your situation is a very difficult one for all of you, and I think one where the normal idealised rules might be better off slightly bent if it saves your marriage and keeps your family under one roof.

You will know your wife best, so will have a view as to how open you can be about your physical needs. Posts on this site are only ever about OW - DH's who seek sex/intimacy outside their marriage which the OW then threatens.

I suspect there will be DH's out there who would quietly take you on one side and tell you to "pay for it". To keep emotion out of it avoid an OW who will get emotional and will say this compromise saves more marriages than you think. I don't myself know any DH's who admit to this- and as a woman/outsider it is hard to understand how that could be a good or appealing idea - but it must go on. DH's view needed here.

The majority of women people will berate you as a selfish , BUT that kind of comment won't actually help you or your wife as you do feel guilty, as well as being terribly unhappy, already.

Be kind to her, and as kind on yourself as you can be. Find whatever way you can to keep your family together - it'll be very hard work, and will need compromise (on both sides). If you're a decent guy you'll never feel good about yourself deep down if you abandon her. She probably would not have abandoned you if you were the ill one.

JessicaBeatriceFletcher · 01/11/2013 14:08

In my opinion, this thread has shown MN both at its best and at its worst.

ivykaty44 · 01/11/2013 14:34

I wish you well cricket

TheGonnagle · 01/11/2013 14:59

Keep fighting.
Be kind to each other.
Every day is a new day.

All trite truisms, but all because they are true. Good luck.

cricketnut77 · 01/11/2013 15:16

Arthritic - I meant abusive in the sense of them actually calling me names, saying I was a terrible husband and also the ones twisting my words and accusing me of adultery or taking our son away from her when I have done no such thing.
I have no problem with the people who were critical of me - I expected some criticism and contrasting opinions. That is why I originally posted. You have just made my point about this forum clear by going through my latest post and dissecting it line by line. I don't need "evidence" to post what I feel to be true, you can disagree fine but this is not a court of law.

livelaughlearn - I have thought about if the boot was on the other foot a lot. I wouldnt expect her stay with me if I never showed her any affection at all. And I was totally absorbed with my own illness to the exclusion of everything (apart from my job) else including our child. She is unwell sometimes and gets very tired but thankfully she is not dying. She goes out with her friends and family and me, drives, and generally does most things healthy women do.

I have indeed been told by several friends to pay for it. Including one mate offering to introduce me to a £150 an hour escort. But I want the intimacy of a woman who wants to make love to me not doing it for the cash. Above all I want that woman to be my wife. I will take things very slowly with my wife but I will not wait forever

OP posts:
paperlantern · 01/11/2013 15:41

Cricket - it strikes me much of life has returned to normal and you are resentful that the bit that really matters to you hasn't followed suit. Perhaps it feels like you have got over the real major difficulties but a little like both of your attitudes are stuck. I find this happens on a fairly regular basis where essentially DS's needs or abilities change and all the support networks including me race to catch up.

Have you sat down together and discussed how you are both feeling, what is the same and what is different from a year ago. what are your hopes and expectations for the next year, Much like you would before you get married.

I'm single parent "caring" for my son, so this is something I do by myself on a regular basis.

I have a bucket list too. I know I want to travel and I didn't do enough of that before I had kids so I have a list of places I want to go to, aim is to do one of these a year. Because of the caring and lots of reasons the one's I'm hitting are in the Uk and the ones that work for all of us as a family. I'm happy that a parts of who I am are coming through in what I'm doing as a carer and as a family.