Losing my man to another woman, help!

[ArtsyLady]

Hello ladies,

I am new to this forum. I'm not married and I don't have children but I am going through something and could use some help.

I'm 29 and in a relationship with a 40 year old man. We've been together close to a year and I'm certain that he's the one. He has never been married but I've been hoping and trying to get him to commit.

Things have been great between us - we have good chemistry, we've traveled together, did some exciting new things. This has all changed recently, he has lost interest, doesn't contact me as often, even our sexual relationship has cooled.

I recently discovered that a new woman has entered the picture. She isn't actually "new". He has known her for many years. She is recently divorced but was already married when they met. They were introduced through mutual friends 7 years ago and he helped her apply for a job where he worked. She then got the job and they worked together for a period of time. Apparently, during this time he developed feelings for her, but she was happily married then and he couldn't act on these feelings. He then got a new job in the city and moved and has hardly seen her for years.

Now she's newly single and has moved into the city herself. What really made me mad is that when he reconnected with her, they were both invited to dinner with some mutual friends. He knew she was going to be there and didn't invite me along (even though he normally would). Since then he has been spending time with her, I don't know how far it has gotten.

I got all this information from a friend who knows them both. I have confronted him but he claims that nothing is going on, I don't believe him.

What do I do?

Artsy the thing is, in real life, sometimes people will tell you want you want to hear because they don't want to hurt your feelings, they want to be nice to you. But it doesn't help in the long run.

Just take care of yourself. What you have here is a thread of women who've been through it themselves in one way or another and are just trying to give you the benefit of their/our experiences and want to help you avoid making the same mistakes or wasting time.

You deserve so much better than what this 'relationship' is giving you. And I can say that even though I don't know you or anything about you, because everyone deserves more than what this relationship is giving you.

Take care of yourself and good luck. x

I like that idea too folkgirl, ta!!!

Here's the thing. Before this week I didn't know about their relationship or what it involved. All I knew was that his behavior changed and I turned to a person who knows him and who I could trust to try and understand why. She then told me about this OW and it just completely set me off.

I didn't have a reason to break up with him initially because I didn't have any information other than him spending time with her. So obviously I wanted to know what the nature of the relationship was.

I confronted him but he said that nothing was happening, just an old friend catching up etc. But I wasn't convinced which is why I came on here to seek some advice. But to just suddenly break up over something I didn't have full information about didn't make sense to me.

So then I did some irrational things like snooping through his phone and pushing this woman to tell me more about their relationship. When I found out about the nature of their relationship, I just lost it to be honest.

It may seem crazy to an outsider but it's completely shattering all my hopes and plans.

Please do try to understand it from my perspective. I could never leave him without knowing what was truly going on. That would have been more crazy to me than anything else. But it's hard to get information from someone who isn't being fully honest with you.

See, he didn't really lie, from what I've heard it doesn't sound like anything has actually happened between them. BUT he wasn't honest either because he withheld quite a lot about his feelings for her and his possible agenda.

I think I'm going to have another talk with him. Okay, no ultimatum, nothing like that and try to have an honest conversation. I'll see how that goes and then decide on how to act.

Again I'm sorry if I came accross as insensitive to anyone, I really am!

Artsy I'm glad you have read the posts.

I agree with others that in RL people are not always blunt- they are invested in a friendship with you and have their own agenda- we aren't and haven't.

It looks as if your friend who is the 'source' is giving you a drip-drip approach- saying a little more each time because she doesn't want to hurt you but neither does she want you to look like a fool.

I wonder if you have been blinkered to the truth for some time, and seeing only what you want to see.

Given you don't live with this man, you must realise now that lots of his time was 'accounted for' with this woman. How much was he seeing you in all of this? Not much I expect- and maybe just for sex lately?

He's lied to you- by omission. He's still sleeping with you while he has the hots for another person. You cannot accept this and retain any self esteem.

So- what re you going to do and when?

Can you ask to meet up and tell him it's over? Will you phone him ? Maybe it will help you now to talk about how you will end this- so you will start to move on from this moment and forget about trying to salvage anything.

What form will this ending take and when?

onlypassing Hmm interesting question!

Things I can't change about myself, no I wouldn't put those, but I suppose it depends on what those things are. There's no point acknowledging the negative unless you're going to try and change it.

Things I can change I write as positive changes.

So, for example:

Reality might be - I'm a stone overweight and pretty unfit. I could do with losing that stone and toning up.

So instead of just writing "overweight" and "unfit", in my aspirational I might write "eats healthily" or "follows 5:2 way of eating". And instead of "unfit" I might write "exercises regularly".

Because that's how I want to see myself. Then I'd consider what exercise I'd want to do, what exercise I can physically fit into my week. I wouldn't be afraid to try something and then decide I didn't like it without seeing it as a failing.

So, I might try British Military Fitness, C25k, swimming, dancing, fitness classes at the gym, personal trainer and work out which of those I enjoyed and stick at them.

I don't think there's any point in focusing on the negatives, it's not about compiling a pros and cons of who I am list. It's more about acknowledging and recognising what is already good about me, and improving on it.

Ultimately, all of your aspirations can be flipped into current negatives, but it's not about dwelling, it's about changing and not setting yourself up to fail by giving yourself too much to do.

I just did it myself about 18 months ago. I was having a really crappy day and felt rubbish and just really wanted to gather my thoughts, but then I started including the aspirational stuff as well. It's the smart targets that make the difference.

x-d posts.

I can see why you didn't want to end it without all the information- when you thought there might be hope. But you were still being blinkered because you sensed things had changed.

When you say you could never leave him without knowing what was going on- you may still never know what was going on. The details don't change anything. He's lost interest and as hard as it is for you to take than on board, that is the fact.

It's not really your choice to end it either now or when you think you have all the facts- he's already ended it by his behaviour. He just doesn't have the guts to tell you.

The other point is that almost everyone here DOES understand- we've been there.

Which is why everyone is telling YOU to end it and not carry on with this detective work, talking to him again etc because it won't change a thing.

But I am still fixated on finding out what the hell is so special about this woman and why he feels so strongly about her.

It could just be that their pheremones make them a biologically compatible match to make the optimal genetic combinations in any potential children.

If this was the case, no amount of analysing how she looks, what she's like, culture, background will tell you why he's drawn to her. a genetics lab might help

What I'm trying to say is you will send yourself crazy trying to figure it out. You can't figure it out or find a rational reason. It isn't anything you've done wrong or anything you can improve in yourself. It just is. You are fine the way you are.

She then said that if I do want to compare myself to OW, I should know that she would probably never behave the way I'm behaving right now. She would handle the siatuation with a lot more grace. That really hurt

Ouch. :( not surprised. That is blunt but I think your friend is referring to self esteem. I think your only way forward is to leave him. Staying with him you'll just seek reassurances and I think that will drive him further away. because I know how much this must hurt.

Sorry for interrupting your thread Artsy

And some of it doesn't have to be 'positives' just facts.

So I've got 'vegetarian' on my list. That's not a value judgement, it's just about answering the question "Who is FolkGirl?"

Folkgirl Just to say: many thanks for your reply. I understand better now.

@loopyloulu - have I blinkered on to the truth for some time? Yes and no. I could always tell this was going to be a challenge because he's obviously never settled down with anyone. BUT I was very hopeful. Plus he gives very mixed signals, like he includes me in a lot of his life. Like very quickly I met his friends, we traveled together, spent a lot of time together. So I suppose that the speed at which I felt I was becoming a part of his life made me think that we shared something special. Maybe that was just a reflection of my own feelings.

This is why it drove me so crazy finding out about OW because it seems like he is completely catering to her and what she wants, while our relationship was the opposite of that almost.

What I'm going to do now?

I'm still VERY emotional about all this. Still in psycho mode. Still thinking about this woman. I feel like talking to him now would be useless. I could just scream and cry but then he's probably think I was completely insane.

I feel like I just want to take a break from all this. Just not talk to him, not think about it, maybe make this chart that folkgirl mentioned, do soemthing fun, see my parents, have a girl's night out, I don't know, just something else.

I'm sure taking a break from it all will be very good for you Artsy. Do some stuff you enjoy and remind yourself there is more to your life than this relationship with a man who has now gone elsewhere.

Look after yourself, do things you enjoy and remember time really does heal. You won't always feel like this, it will get better. Be brave, take the hurt, learn from it and take pride in coming out the other side.

Artsy its clear you are hurting. I am so sorry for that. Most people (men and women) have at some point in their lives invested a lot of time and emotional energy into someone they thought was right for them, only for it to backfire. It hurts like hell but shit happens. You just have to suck it up, pull yourself together and move on. You are right to do some positive things and have time out.

I get the impression that although you know the reality of this situation, you are not in a place (mentally & emotionally) to accept that this guy is no longer interested and his heart is elsewhere. Whilst ever you are in this place nothing anyone says to you will make a difference because you will ultimately look for reasons/signs as to why this guy may change his mind. You will also carry on trying desperately to convince him or try to get him to understand what he is throwing away etc. the usual stuff. Not that any of that will make a difference if he really has strong feelings for this OW.

I have a feeling you will stay with him till he breaks up with you. The break up will hit you hard and you will probably find it difficult to accept. You really need to think about how you will deal with the break up if and/or when he says his done. It's inevitable if he really does have strong feelings for this other woman. His already emotionally started detaching from you and positioning himself closer and closer to this other woman.

Artsy how is psycho mode manifesting itself? What your DP's friend said to you about the other woman handling this with more grace was very harsh, but makes me wonder if your behaviour has been volatile in real life?

You still seem very blinkered. You do not have to learn the full truth to break up with him, there is no beyond reasonable doubt test that you can deploy. The thing is you will not get the proof you want until he starts a relationship with her, and at that point he will finally stop stringing you along and dump you (I don't think he wants an affair, he's just like a lot of men and can't end a relationship until the new one is confirmed).

You do not need to dump him because his behaviour is unacceptable. You need to extradite yourself because a big bucket of shit is coming your way.

You know enough to know that he does not love you, will not commit to you and will dump you at some point. Literally the only choice you have is whether you take charge of the situation and end it now, or wait for him to do it. Any other "thinking" you are planning to do is fantasy. You might as well start wondering if you should leave him for Ryan Gosling.

And friends are, I'm afraid, often crap. They tell you what you want to hear. Or it's possible your friends are as naive as you.

haha well I think y'all got a pretty clear picture of psycho mode from what I've been writing on here. I haven't done anything crazy...just constant seeking out of a reason or answer, reading his texts and emails, and I suppose trying to push this woman to give me information. I think that's why she told me what she did, because I was probably pushing her too hard and I get why she wouldn't want to just tell me every single detail about OW. Plus I was really upset when I saw her.

Psycho mode is me not being able to stop thinking about it. Like I said, I get all of this logical stuff, I do. But I can't switch off trying to understand OW's appeal and comparing our different relationships with him.

The more I think about it, the more hurtful it is.

But do you see the irony, that you're rejecting our advice as "logical" but you're applying logic to a situation where logic doesn't apply. You'll never know for sure why she compells him in a way you don't. Maybe it's smell, maybe she reminds him of something about his mother, maybe they once made the same joke, maybe he's always thought she's got great tits. But I bet he doesn't know so you're screwed if you think you're going to figure it out. Our tastes are odd, I once left a wonderful BF for a dalliance with an alcoholic with excessive nostril hair...

The question is what are you going to do with this hurt?

maybe he's always thought she's got great tits Ha, he probably does...stupid men!

I suppose that part of it isn't just about her and him, but also me. I just want to know what I'm lacking that I fall into these patterns.
See, I was with someone else who I described before that I really cared for, I was with him for years and at the end felt that he took advantage of me.

Then I met this man, who is completely different from my ex and look how it turned out. So the common factor here is me and the fact that I'm obviously doing something wrong.

I hear the self esteem thing, but I guess its' not fully getting through to me

Naturally this is dominating your thoughts, it has unexpectedly become clear you need to end a relationship you had high hopes for.

This has only happened in the last few days and will take quite some time to get over from what you have posted.

I often note that one drawback on MN is the lack of a real time line and how people expect an OP to act and have tied up all loose ends within the life of a thread.

OP I would heed the advice you have unanimously been given and accept these thoughts you are having will pass and this stage has to be gotten through just like any break up

Two relationships that haven't worked out by 29? Maybe I'm in self-denial mode here, but I don't think that's evidence of a pattern of failure. But then I think starter relationships are very good at helping people learn to be a better partner, understand what they want, and yeah live a little and try some different folks on for size.

I think though, a bit of self-reflection is useful. But do it from the perspective of improving, rather than trying to work out why everything failed. Maybe you do allow yourself to put disproportionate effort in without checking it's being reciprocrated. It sounds like you maybe are too patient/hopeful in terms of hoping someone will change either themselves or their feelings for you. The motto I have come to is it should feel easy: if it doesn't, don't flog it, and if it does don't create fake problems.

You've only known for sure about the OW for a short time, your bf is being dishonest with you about the fact that he's in love with her, of course you're going stir crazy. Your instinct & your 'source' are telling you one thing & he is telling you another. Your life is up in the air and you don't have any firm answers.

It's a real bummer when someone you thought might be for keeps turns out not to be, but I truly believe that if you're not right for him, there's someone more right for you than he is, try to believe that.

They may have some connection that you don't have with your partner, and it's not that you're doing anything wrong, it's simply a question of compatibility & chemistry. I don't think you're doing anything wrong in your relationships, but you may be choosing wrong... not the same thing at all.

Some people have relationships figured out early on, some people learn along the way...

You're young & you'll no doubt meet a guy right for you who wouldn't give this OW a second glance.

Why are you with someone so much older anyway? You're in your 20's and he's 40 - aren't you a little bit incompatible with interests etc?

I also just wanted to say that I'm not as superficial as I may have come across. But come on, you have to admit that it's more difficult when your partner has a connection with someone who is beautiful and younger than him. Plus I've always had this jealousy of blondes, but then I guess a lot of people do, hence the blonde jokes ahah

Plus i'm artistic, I rely on visual things quite a lot. It's what I do!

Although, I certainly didn't pick him for his looks. Thinking about it, he's really not all that attractive, he has a little belly developing, losing hair, etc haha

BUT, I really fell for his strong character. I just love how sure he is of himself and his charm. He has a pretty serious job and can be very serious at times, but is also very funny and fun loving. It's just very cute. So you see, I can explain why I love him.

I do think you're going through disappointment/disillusionment. It's a kind of grief. It's normal, Artsy - it's temporary 'psycho'. It's perfectly natural to want to hold on to what you thought you had, and to feel like you're in battle when it's going away from you. Best thing to do is ride it out: emotions may be as strong as all get-out, but they are only feelings. They pass. We do not have to act on them.

What you said about everything happening so quickly in this relationship? It's a red flag, you know that, don't you? It sounds like he's one of those people who works to draw a partner in, then loses interest in them. That would totally explain why he never settled down with anyone long-term.

Your friend was harsh, but right, I feel, about your self-worth. Look at this:
"All I knew was that his behavior changed and I ... didn't have a reason to break up with him initially"

You know what? You don't need reasons. When you feel someone's pulling away from you, and they won't talk honestly about it, the simple truth is that your relationship with them is no longer good for you. That is a good reason to end it!
Can you see it?

The age gap is irrelevant. I used to date older men- significant ones were 8 and 13 years older than me and it was fine....

Artsy I'm going to share something you might find helpful.

Many years ago, an old flame came back into my life. We'd kept in touch off and on as friends, and at one point in our lives- years ago- when he was divorced, he got in touch with me again. He was at the time dating another woman- they'd been dating for about 9 months and he was sure that if he'd asked, she'd have moved in with him.

Do you know what he told me? That she was just a rebound girlfriend and his heart was with me blah blah blah.......

He continued to see her for a few weeks after our 're-union' feeling guilty of course but not wanting to hurt her. In the end of course he did the right thing and ended it with her. Like you, she knew he was seeing me as a 'friend' and she was unhappy over it.

I didn't end up with him in the end but it's worth you considering that this guy is possibly having those same chats with his newly found old flame about how he can kindly end it with you. In your shoes, I'd get in first.