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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Losing my man to another woman, help!

999 replies

ArtsyLady · 29/10/2013 21:53

Hello ladies,

I am new to this forum. I'm not married and I don't have children but I am going through something and could use some help.

I'm 29 and in a relationship with a 40 year old man. We've been together close to a year and I'm certain that he's the one. He has never been married but I've been hoping and trying to get him to commit.

Things have been great between us - we have good chemistry, we've traveled together, did some exciting new things. This has all changed recently, he has lost interest, doesn't contact me as often, even our sexual relationship has cooled.

I recently discovered that a new woman has entered the picture. She isn't actually "new". He has known her for many years. She is recently divorced but was already married when they met. They were introduced through mutual friends 7 years ago and he helped her apply for a job where he worked. She then got the job and they worked together for a period of time. Apparently, during this time he developed feelings for her, but she was happily married then and he couldn't act on these feelings. He then got a new job in the city and moved and has hardly seen her for years.

Now she's newly single and has moved into the city herself. What really made me mad is that when he reconnected with her, they were both invited to dinner with some mutual friends. He knew she was going to be there and didn't invite me along (even though he normally would). Since then he has been spending time with her, I don't know how far it has gotten.

I got all this information from a friend who knows them both. I have confronted him but he claims that nothing is going on, I don't believe him.

What do I do?

OP posts:
ArtsyLady · 06/11/2013 12:35

Sorry for the typos-iPhone!

OP posts:
itsmeisntit · 06/11/2013 12:38

Well only you can change that feeling.

Why are you still seeing him? You are second best you know that don't you. Where is your self respect and dignity here.

Dump with you head held high

ArtsyLady · 06/11/2013 12:41

Well it took me a while to realize. Things were completely fine between us and he suddenly changed. And at first I wasn't sure what was going on. It's not until this past week that I've seen what was going on. The more I think about it, the clearer it becomes to me as well.

OP posts:
garlicbutter · 06/11/2013 12:49

It's quite a good thing he went away this week, isn't it, Artsy. Your own mind's getting the space to figure things out :)

Yes, it does feel horrible to realise that someone's basically been taking advantage of your love to get laid. It's despicable behaviour.

I may have said this already Wink You deserve so much better!

ArtsyLady · 06/11/2013 12:54

Yes it really is!!! I know that if he was around and being nice and gentle, I wouldn't consider breaking up with him. Plus I find that sex can be so confusing sometimes. Like you can be mad at someone but share that time when you're being intimate and it just throws your emotions off completely! So I'm glad he's not here to confuse me even more!!

OP posts:
Chyochan · 06/11/2013 13:39

It does really seem like this guy had moved on, do yourself a favour and return the compliment, and as soon as possible for your own self esteem, dont let him fuck you over one last time.
If it was me I probably wouldnt even bother texting, just dont answer his next call, email, text, I doubt youll hear from him after that.
As for feeling like shit becasue he's moved on to another woman, dont, really dont.
He will always be a self absorbed twat in his pre-packeged life, take away the money and superficiall charm and your left with a bit of a narcistic loser really. (I suspect the OW has some incling of this, which is why she has allways kept him at arms length)
You on the other hand are young, attractive, inteligent, have a cool job, friends, and are open to relationships with other people fully, (and dont just see them as an accessory in your GQ lifestyle).
Hes committed himself to a soulless sterile existance that you would have been compleatly bored with within a few years anyway.
Your too good for him, move on.

Twinklestein · 06/11/2013 18:32

I think the reason we are all being a little harsh at times is that we've all been there!

Surely that's all the more reason to be compassionate...

loopyloulu · 06/11/2013 18:34

..and have come out the other side with some tough love.......from friends.

Twinklestein · 06/11/2013 18:41

Well there's tough love and then there's sniping...

LittlePeaPod · 06/11/2013 18:44

I don't think everyone is sniping. I don't think Op has Ben flame grilled really. So home truths maybe..

KatieScarlett2833 · 06/11/2013 18:49

Artsy is a good egg, she knows it's tough love Wink

BitOutOfPractice · 06/11/2013 18:49

Twinkle I totally agree. I don't know why everyone thinks they can wade in with the tough love on this thread. If it was elsewhere everyone would be saying "hey don't be so hard on yourself, these feelings are normal". They certainly wouldn't be saying "well he's been a bit of a coward at wrist by cheating on you, but you need to grow the fuck up, stop analysing and bin him without a backwards glance".

This thread is making me quite cross. Can you tell?

I'm so glad op that you are taking this time without him to get your head straight about him

BitOutOfPractice · 06/11/2013 18:50

wrist = worst

PopcornGrace · 06/11/2013 19:25

Yes artsy girl sleeping with a man releases a bonding hormone called oxytocin (google it). Men release much less of it than women. Hence why sleeping with him confuses your brain

Recommend a book by Pat Allen called 'getting to I do'

ArtsyLady · 06/11/2013 20:29

Artsy is a good egg, she knows it's tough love

hahahaha! thanks Smile

Don't worry, I'm not offended. I wouldn't keep coming back everyday for a week if I was

OP posts:
perfectstorm · 06/11/2013 20:36

I think the emotions are normal, the hurt very normal too, and I also think people dismissing a year-long relationship as brief have forgotten what dating is like. A year is not a long time when you've been married decades, but it sure as hell was back when you dated. And emotions aren't timestamped, anyway.

It's easy to write off broken hearts in hindsight, when they're all healed and you've moved on (often several times). But when in the throes, it's horrendous. OP I've said it before, but I think you're doing really well. This stuff is agony for anyone. But... I do also think cutting losses is the easiest way to end the hurt, in the long run, and the sooner you do the sooner you'll be over him. I think the impatience is partly because people wish they'd done it quicker, themselves, and want someone else to avoid their own mistakes.

EllieInTheRoom · 06/11/2013 20:52

I haven't posted on this thread before but Ive been following it. I'm in a completely different situation now but I well remember being in something similar, when I was head over heels with a man and sure enough another woman arrived on the scene.

You know there is nothing you can do, the best thing to do is to walk away but the feeling of hurt, wanting what you cant have and outrage that he doesnt love you back just drive you to distraction.

I remember though in the months after it, the thing that did my head in the most was I wished I had been stronger and kicked him to curb. I was kicking myself for being a bit wet.

Sympathies OP. It is tough. But you've got your wits about you, you'll be grand! Good luck
Thanks

SolidGoldBrass · 06/11/2013 23:31

PopcornGrace: That's bullshit, and misogynist bullshit as well. The reasons some women invest a good fuck with too much meaning is because of social conditioning to the effect that they must be one man's property, that it's impossible to survive without a male owner, and that a lifetime's domestic service is their destiny.

Casual sex is good for women. It helps us not end up in the state of whirling torment demonstrated by the OP.

cjel · 06/11/2013 23:43

Solid -I don't find casual sex good ,same as I don't like fish or nightclubs or going to the gym or heels that are too high.Nothing to do with conditioning I just don't like it - and yes I have tried a lotSmile

beaglesaresweet · 07/11/2013 00:20

Solid, casual sex does work well in many cases, but NOT when a woman is in love with the said man, like OP. If you don't love a man, sleeping with him wouldn't make you love him, you'd just move on quickly. She lolved him fron eraly on, it seems, and not at all just because of good sex.

beaglesaresweet · 07/11/2013 00:22

I mean in her case, she fell in love based on respect and admiration of his qualities, esp as opposed to her previous bf as she described, i'm sure the sexual attraction followed that.

ArtsyLady · 07/11/2013 00:33

I don't have a problem with casual sex, that's not my issue here at all. It's one thing to have casual sex with someone you find hot, completely fine. It's another to be in love with someone, invest in the realtionship and end up being their go to person for sex when they are emotionally investing in someone else! This is one of the things that hurts me the most.

OP posts:
salonmeblowy · 07/11/2013 00:34

Artsy, I have been lurking on this thread quite a bit and, unsurprisingly, agree with the general consensus – dump him as soon as possible with minimum drama. I've name-changed as well to avoid outing myself.

I think your self-esteem definitely needs some work, but you already had some advice with regards to that. What is also interesting is that just as you undervalue yourself, you overvalue him. The impression I get from your posts is that you think he is pretty close to perfect, but sadly his lack of commitment to you/infatuation with the OW means that you have to part ways. From what you have said on this thread, it really does not seem so. While I procrastinate on an important work project, let me paint you a picture of him I got from reading your thread. It will be long; I am verbose and enjoy armchair psychology very much. You’ve been warned.

You wrote before that you do not believe he has commitment issues, but the man is 40 and never lived with anyone. Like others have said, that is a huge red beacon. He may be good at maintaining relationship at a casual level, but he clearly has an issue with real intimacy. Living in different countries makes little difference to that, there are few obstacles for people who want real intimacy – he just, for whatever reason, does not. It is not you, it is him.

Which brings us neatly to the OW issue. I think he is incredibly childish and lacking in emotional insight – he clearly liked this woman while she was attached and unavailable, now she is unattached but still emotionally unavailable and that is what makes him go weak at the knees. In his head, he probably thinks he wants a relationship with her, but I am rather certain it will not happen. She may not want him (I strongly suspects she does not – the fridge episode is enough to freak anyone out), but even if she declares she wants his babies tomorrow, I suspect he would bolt. Pursuing unattainable women is his way of convincing himself he wants intimacy while maintaining emotional sterility. You say he is set in his ways? Yet another obstacle to building successful bonds with others – as much as one does not want to be a pushover, a degree of compromise is necessary in growing closer to someone. Now, he should be grown up enough at his age to realise that a. he is being incredibly unfair to you b. his feelings for her are largely underpinned by her unavailability. The reason why he is not self-aware enough is because just as he acts quite detached from you, the relationship with his own feelings and emotions seems to be that of detachment and denial as well. He barely lives in his own home, for goodness sake. It is not you, it is him.

What is also concerning is that you report that he is happy when you comply with his demands/plans, but when you challenge him, he either freezes you out or patronises you. Again, working through conflicts is a way of building closeness. The fact that he disengages from you the minute you cease to fit into his plans is at best a childish strategy to avoid developing intimacy, or a controlling mechanism at worst. Perhaps it is both. Either way, it is not you, it is him.

As for your admiring his intellectual prowess is concerned, I can understand that because I am often a little awed by people’s capabilities, particularly if they are different from mine. However, academics are not a special breed. Yes, you need to be lucky enough to have some baseline intellect and then be well supported at school (ex-communist countries can be brilliant at that), but otherwise it is just a career like any other. I am not trying to be anti-intellectual in any way - I am finishing my own PhD and know a lot of academics, who, although very bright and incredibly well trained in their discipline (you basically never leave education if you go down that path), do not escape problems. It is also a career route which attracts big egos, often with fragile underpinnings, which makes them particularly vulnerable to addictions, divorces, petty rivalries, you name it. Besides, narrow specialism means that your view of the world can be a little limited. I was a little embarrassed for him when you wrote that he showed you aspects of his work he knew you would not understand, because it shows he wanted to impress you by proving he can do something you cannot. Big whoop, it is his job. I am quite certain he is not so hot as a graphic designer. I would not show my work to anyone who would be unlikely to understand it because I think it smacks of wanting to brag about your intellectual superiority, when, in fact, it is much more to do with extensive training which takes decades and narrow specialisms. In fact, a lot of open-minded academics are focused on making their research as accessible as possible to people outside of their discipline, but I guess in order to want to do that, you need to let go of your ego-inflating agenda. Many things escaped your bf, it seems, including an ability to use a stove. It is not you, it is him.

Another aspect I wanted to mention was that he seems to have consciously painted a specific picture of himself in you mind, someone whose family overcame adversity and who made an incredibly successful career out of humble beginnings. This is all very well and good, but I am sure there are other aspects of his life he has not covered extensively because it does not paint him in good light. Do you know anything of his struggles that he has not overcome? Have you heard much about the other women he hurt along the way? It is not you, it is him.

All in all, I am sure he has a lot of things going for him, but no matter how superficially charming he appears now, you would grow very tired of someone who, despite living on his own and never cooking, needs a cleaner to come in twice a week to pick up his dirty socks. I have nothing against outsourcing domestic labour (and love my own cleaners to bits), but I really dislike the attitude that, because he is bright and has a penis, he is beneath popping his own coffee cups into his stylish dishwasher and learning to feed himself. If you ever had the misfortune of having children with such a man, that sort of attitude would drive you insane rather quickly, unless you enjoy domestic servitude and/or employing help. It is not you, it is him.

As a last point, on the comparison between your first bf and this one, the fact that the first time round you escaped Level 4 fucker does not mean that Level 2 is acceptable, to paraphrase an old MN adage. It is not you, it is them.

You, on the other hand, are compassionate, loving, kind, and very much in tune with your emotions. Let your self-esteem recover and, should you want to develop another relationship, you will find plenty of men worthy of your time and affection.

If you are still awake, then you are doing better than me.

ArtsyLady · 07/11/2013 00:36

This seriously makes me wonder if I ever meant anything more to him? I'll admit that things got physical between us pretty quickly, before we really decided to call it a 'relationship', but I think that's pretty normal actually. I mean some relationships start that way so I didn't really see the big deal. Yet, he's probably not sleeping with OW, and yet he's running around after her like crazy Sad

OP posts:
ArtsyLady · 07/11/2013 00:44

salonmeblowy thanks for that long and thoughtful analysis!!!
It's a whole new perspective of him that I never even considered until this past week. I still find it hard to believe to be honest, but there is sense in what you're saying. Regardless of everything, I don't think he is as cold as he comes across. It's just hard to believe that someone who was so nice and warm towards me before could really be so calculating.
I don't know - in any case, all this should be over on Friday Sad

OP posts: