Losing my man to another woman, help!

[ArtsyLady]

Hello ladies,

I am new to this forum. I'm not married and I don't have children but I am going through something and could use some help.

I'm 29 and in a relationship with a 40 year old man. We've been together close to a year and I'm certain that he's the one. He has never been married but I've been hoping and trying to get him to commit.

Things have been great between us - we have good chemistry, we've traveled together, did some exciting new things. This has all changed recently, he has lost interest, doesn't contact me as often, even our sexual relationship has cooled.

I recently discovered that a new woman has entered the picture. She isn't actually "new". He has known her for many years. She is recently divorced but was already married when they met. They were introduced through mutual friends 7 years ago and he helped her apply for a job where he worked. She then got the job and they worked together for a period of time. Apparently, during this time he developed feelings for her, but she was happily married then and he couldn't act on these feelings. He then got a new job in the city and moved and has hardly seen her for years.

Now she's newly single and has moved into the city herself. What really made me mad is that when he reconnected with her, they were both invited to dinner with some mutual friends. He knew she was going to be there and didn't invite me along (even though he normally would). Since then he has been spending time with her, I don't know how far it has gotten.

I got all this information from a friend who knows them both. I have confronted him but he claims that nothing is going on, I don't believe him.

What do I do?

I just want to understand what has kept him interested in her for 7 years!

I'm sure she has many wonderful qualities. I suspect her enduring unavailability highlighted them all for him. It's human nature to yearn for what you cannot have and underappreciate what is under your nose.

You really need to accept that relationships are alchemy. They are not reducible to logic or formulae. You can't ever know why some work and others don't, other than how kind the participants are.

A girl at college really, really liked my now DH. She was (and I am sure is) lovely, and on paper a much better catch than I am. He wasn't interested in anything serious with her, though he liked and appreciated her company very much. When he got together with me, he was serious about it very early. We just clicked. Similarly I was in your position before that, too. Love is not logical and trying to make it so is a short route to endless frustration. You are wasting headspace and emotional energy - you might as well try counting grains of sand. It's not going to avail you of anything.

It's not even really about why he doesn't feel as much for you as you'd like him to - only that he doesn't.

He just doesn't. Same as I don't like fish as much as I like meat. No particular 'reason', it just is. I like fish, but given a choice I'll take meat.

And he will never tell you why. Like most people he won't be able to define 'love' or chemistry. He might say it's her great tits, or her hair, or the way she eats kebabs. Who the hell knows? But even if you ( or any woman) had the same tits, the same hair and ate kebabs the same way, you would still not be 'her'. It's indefinable.

You are torturing yourself- as well as everyone here who has tried to help you!!!

Love is not logical and trying to make it so is a short route to endless frustration.

xposted, perfectstorm :) I like what you said there: so true!

... which, Artsy, doesn't mean we always have to follow our heart. We can also accept that we may feel love for a person who isn't really good for us. In those cases, logic gets to win. Logic can trump love, if you like, but it can't control it.

Artsy you seem to have come such a long way. Please don't make us all go over old ground with regards OW and his feelings for her. Focus on what you want/need to say to end it... Come girl, you are stronger than this.

haha NO you don't have to. I mean it's obviously still on my mind, but the only reason I brought it up was because I was responding to joysmum comment and tried to explain the situation to her. That is all I swear. I can't just stop thinking about it, but I'm not doing anything either.

Artsy- I do know where you are coming from on this though not quite to the same extent.
In the days before the internet a man of mine dumped me for OW- though he did come back after it had fizzled out. ( too late though!) I was desperate to know what she was like but as I said it was pre internet days- 30 years back- so I could never find out anything.

Technology has a lot to answer for!

Oh you're so right about technology!

Actually, someone said a few pages back that they feel sorry for OW and I kind of do too. I really feel like a complete creep. I totally facebook stalked her (I mean I know who her ex is, her siblings, where she works, what she looks like!!), I tried to make their close mutual friend give me details about her private life, and yes I have made her a big topic on an internet forum. Plus, she is the center of my hatred right now.

Being the nice person she probably is, going through a hard time, she doesn't deserve all that from me. I should try being less of a psycho stalker.

That was me that said that.... What you have written is exactly what I was thinking. Poor woman..

Artsy I don't think you're as self aware as you think you are. You say you could draw up a list of what made you love your two previous partners. Yet if someone turned up brandishing those lists and "proved" they met every criteria chances are you wouldn't love them.

Your STBEXBF probably could if asked don't do this draw up a list of what he loves about OW. You might guess half of it, but probably not all of it. These things are unpredictable and impossible for other's to pin down. What someone loves in someone might be what we completely overlook. My ex-boyfriend loved the way I was shambolic, my current boyfriend thinks I'm a super organised go-getter. They're not both wrong, they just see different things in me.

I don't get how you're claiming to be artsy but approaching this like a scientist. And ps over-rationalising is not a sign of intelligence, especially not if you ignore large chunks of evidence.

I'm sorry but I defy anyone who has been surplanted NOT to look at the ow and wonder "what's she got that I haven't?" I think that's a perfectly normal reaction and one that I bet every single one of us has had.

I don't think we should castigate the op for what is a very human reaction, even if it's not an especially helpful one.

I agree. If I always did the things that were best for me my life would be a lot easier/better... but, erm. No.

Think the OP's hurt and confusion and desire for an explanation other than "the universe is a weird place" is normal, too.

perfectstorm thanks for understanding. In retrospect, I can see how my behavior last week was bad. But just pondering over things now can't be that counter productive.

I go through different emotions each day. Right now I'm back in angry mode mainly because I called him last night. Like I said, we couldn't really talk because he was drunk . Yet he hasn't made any attempt to contact me since, no call or text to even say hi.

It's just ridiculoyus that he's causing me so much pain and he doesn't even know. He's just off working and enjoying himself completely unaware of the hell I'm going through. Just seems unfair.

I just think you need to be careful about getting wound up by a lot of strangers on the internet, many of whom will have their own agenda and be projecting their situation on to you, just as I have.

All I can say is that I have a great marriage and felt hurt when hubby could talk to someone else, not me, about the death of his mum and hid the fact because he knew it would hurt because it was a lady.

The comments since that post just go to show how a bunch of internet warriors can skew things that might seem perfect reasonable and logical in their own minds. My hubby knows that I was cheated on nearly 25 years ago by a previous partner and how that affects me today. He also knows it was the secretive nature that worried me and chooses not the stay away there despite me being ok with it just in case it upsets me. No demands have been made by me but because loves me he does what he thinks is right. That's what love is, it's what I do too, love is putting your partner's emotional needs first. There's nothing sinister or one sided about it as we both care about the feelings of the other and this is just one example which isn't a balanced summery of the whole relationship, but it's very interesting that the perception of others is that it would be. Says more about them than about us.

So what ever you decide to do, do it based on what you feel to be right in the cold light of day rather than because you've been counselled by numerous women who have had partners cheat on them and the best thing they ever did was to end the relationship.

This is not so much about cheating, but about a man who is not that into this woman. He's been cooling off and was never keen on commitment.

Over 500 posts about it.

BTW, I've never been cheated on, that I know of...

Joys which part of I am happily married and never been cheated on did you miss. Just because you have insecurities and feel its healthy to be in a relationship were you only feel secure by sneaking around behind your DH back and checking his messages doesn't mean the rest of us have the same hang ups. Sorry to hear you are still insecure after having been cheated on but please be assured that not all of us have.

Some of us are actually in a relationship were we don't need to check up on our DH. Unlike your experience our DH haven't conducted an EA and yes if my DH ever cheated or had an EA he knows I would leave him. I couldn't live in a relationship where there is no or little trust I have much more self worth than that and I have to resort to Checking his texts/emails etc to make sure he wasn't sneaking around behind my back.

Personally amongst other things I think a healthy relationship is one were both parties equally trust and respect each other. Love is also about a lot of things but definitely not sneaking around behind your partners back conducting affairs, EA or generally deceiving your partner. That us not my idea of love.

Just stop contacting him for a bit. See if he contacts you.

Joy you have spectacularly missed the point of this thread- have you read all of it even?

Your comments are not helpful. There are over 500 posts here saying the same thing then you come along and throw in a hand grenade, saying something different.

Do we all has this agenda or project? I don't think so.

Your marriage does not sound healthy to me. You are still not over something that happened 25years ago and your DH has to change his behaviour so that you feel secure? If you cannot allow your DH to stay overnight somewhere - or rather he feels that in doing so he will worry you- then you are living in a very odd relationship. I've been 'cheated on' - I hate the phrase anyway- pre marriage probably 3 times. My DH travels all over the world and always has. We have no choice over this but it has no effect on our trust.

Your DH sounds hen pecked and you sound as if you need to talk to someone professional about the way you check his phone when you are 'down'- whatever that means. If you are feeling down, address why and deal with it in a way that does not involve reverting to feeling insecure and then snooping.

Have never been cheated on either, as far as I know at least. So no agenda that way, this issue has never been my concern (have been OW and have cheated on a couple of boyfriends in my early twenties).

But I have unfortunately wasted probably a couple of years of my life on time wasters who cooled off after initial honeymoon period and weren't ready for a proper committed relationship with me (whereas I was keen and trying to pin them down. just like OP, non?) I have never EVER checked someone's phone, finding that a little bit dysfunctional, sorry!

We are advising OP to find the truth of her boyfriends commitment. Which is a sensible thing to do after a year of dating? Can you argue with that Joysmum?

I love what garlicbutter said it has to be the strongest piece of relationship advice I ever came across: "If I were sitting on your couch with you right now, I'd be getting you relish all the fun memories of times you had with this guy. It's been a great year - not at all wasted! - and has added to the total of who you are. Now the shine's gone off it: it's not working in your favour any more. So put those memories in a box, or an album, or an artwork, and thank him for his part in them. And look to your next experience."

You could just do nothing (although you know you are to ending it and it's already over, as far as you're concerned).
He's likely to get in touch with you at some point. So when he does contact you trying to arrange to meet or even talk for a bit on the phone you could always make yourself totally unavailable at the time he suggests either to meet or even to speak for more than about 20 seconds on the phone.
"Sorry, but I've got to go to/I have an appointment that evening/ can't talk right now/ too busy at the moment/..."etc. Have a good supply of brief excuses ready.
If he keeps persisting just say, " Got lots of things to do, really extremely busy. I'll contact you when I've got time," But never do it.
If he says, "Look, I've got to talk to you. It's important." Tell him you're in far too much of a hurry at the moment to listen; say he may catch you later (but never allow him to!) - "Bye" and put the phone down.
Just every single time he suggests to meet or talk you can blank him out because you have something more important to do (i.e. than meeting or talking to him!).
And if he arrives at your door... 'you're just about to go out' (of course)... say sorry but you have to get ready quickly and shut the door on him after grabbing his flowers quickly and him seeing you putting them carelessly down on the floor...

That way, by simply making yourself constantly unavailable, he'll soon get the message that he's not that important or the centre of your attention after all. He'll be dumbfounded and puzzled and will not understand you any more - a good thing! Deliberately make him feel of no particular importance in your life any more, in fact bloody unimportant!
Don't even give him a minute to speak, rush him to stop - don't even give him the ghost of a chance to tell you he wants to dump you.
And end it that way with him feeling rather bewildered that you seem to have become someone else? And realising he doesn't understand you any more.

If he ever somehow traps you be enigmatic. Just say coldly and unsmilingly, "I've no space for two- timers in my life. I'm sick of that type and have a very low opinion of them. Goodbye." And walk off quickly, explaining nothing, never elaborating on a word of what you said. And if he phones later, just put the phone down. In other words, end it coldly and unpleasantly, with him left wondering and at a loss.

That's the way I'd seek revenge on someone who's insulted and fooled me the way he has done to you.
However, I'm not a nice person, but then, neither is he or he wouldn't do what he's done to you, would he?

Are you sure you're a man simply- that post doesn't read like a man's writing at all.

But FWIW I agree that freezing him out and being unavailable for a date or conversation at any time is a brilliant strategy.

I just don't think the OP will want that. I think she wants real closure as well as a bit of drama and being able to vent her feelings.

What do you think Artsy?

sorry- meant only ( *simply???)

# onlypass

Ugh I don't know. I'm pretty sure it's clear by now that he's the type who likes to pursue the woman. He's pretty good at it too. If he did start making a huge effort, I really don't trust myself enough to resist. Which would be fine but it wouldn't resolve the OW situation or our general problems.

Then again, if he didn't come after me at all it would be even worse and more hurtful.

oops- I think you are missing the point!

You aren't supposed to be still thinking of succumbing to his charm should he decide to pursue you- you are supposed to be ending it in a way that gets you out of the drama and maybe saying too much!

This strategy is not intended to win him back.

In which case the OW is irrelevant because you won't want him - and sorry- but it's likely he won't want you either.