Does this man sound abusive. I say no - my friends think YES!

[LovelyVerity]

OK, I'm asking for a friend (no really I am). My 3 best girlfriends and I have known each other for the best part of two decades - we all lived together at uni. One of us has been single for over a decade - didn't want her kids to get "uncles" - fair enough. So at Christmas she announced she was going to do "dating for fun" now youngest is at Boarding school - then 2 weeks later she met this bloke she now describes as The Real Deal. Last weekend he proposed!

I like him - I would say yes. Our other two friends think she is vulnerable and he is controlling and scary. One of them goes so far to say he will probably end up hitting her. Here's why they think that:

1. When they first met, he refused to have sex for 4 months, because he doesn't 'do' casual sex - they say weird and controlling for a bloke - I say fair enough.
2. He has professional qualifications in massage/hoslitic therapies (not sleazy) and likes to massage my friend - usually moving onto sex. I say WOO HOO - they say he likes his women passive and inert.
3. He enjoys masturbating her to orgasm.. apparently this makes him controlling and domineering.. I could live with that ;-)
4. He told her he'd like to take her somewhere special for her birthday - and then turned up on her doorstep that morning and told her they were going to Le Meurice, Paris for dinner - which meant she had to cancel brunch with us on the Sunday (which we do often anyway), as they obv stayed over night... they say... well - you get the picture.. I think it was maybe a tad presumptuous but FFS... it's new love... and it was LE MEURICE!!!
5. He says he wants to get married and try for a baby ASAP. My friends think this is pushy and pressurising and close to emotional blackmail. Friend had thought her baby days were done - but he has no children. I sort of admire him for being so up front.

What do you think? I should add, he's charming, educated, funny and solvent, and he gets on great with her children (now 18 and 15). I would say yes, but are my friends really seeing danger signs that I just can't see?

BasilBabyEater Fri 18-Oct-13 19:32:37
Maybe he had the clap and needed to get rid of it before shagging her?

I trawl through millions of crap boring posts on MN, just for gems like this.

I have actually choked.

Thanks for all the replies - such a lot of different opinions - it's a lot to take in!

It is not me, OK! Sorry. I've been happily(ish) married for 15 years and have a 5 year old.

I have no idea whether my friend is good at judging men really. The only other man I've seen her with is her first husband - everyone loved him and they were a great couple. He had a tumour and died weeks after it was diagnosed - she's been on her own since then. My other friends are in and out of relationships - one of them is especially good at picking eejits. :(

My husband's known the new boyfriend for years - they went to school together, but have never been particularly friendly. They met at a New Years Day party at our place, partly because he came along with mutual friends of ours - and I guess it does make me feel extra responsible - though I know that's stupid.

I don't notice my friend dressing differently or getting jumpy.. I mainly notice that she seems really happy to be honest. She is harder to get hold of - before, when she was single, you could usually phone for a long moan - and now you're quite likely to get the answermachine - but tbh, I think it's better that's she having a nice glass of wine, rather than waiting for her saddo mates to phone up for a bitch :(

People who are suggesting he's after her dosh are barking up the wrong tree. My friend is comfortable, has a nice home etc., but not income rich. AFAIK, the BF worked in finance doing something high paid and pressured.. then in his early 30s, he felt burnt out and took an extended break out - went sailiing for 9 months, got interested in alternative therapies. He owns a couple of businesses near us...

He will be either 45 or 46 - as he was in the same school year as my DH - so I guess that's the urgency to get married... my friend is 39. She always talked like she'd finished with kids and was moving onto a new flirty and free stage... but she does seem to have flipped and is looking at fertility statistics and the like....

I have a niggly feeling that my friends miss having a comfy single friend who would listen to them. They have been telling her for years she needs to get dating again.. and now she has, they are more pissed off than ever. I sort of suspect sour grapes :(

My bloke jerk is very good, and from what I can tell from this thread, this bloke sounds OK.

The baby thing might be an issue, though, if your friend didn't plan to ever have any more.

And you really share all that intimate sex stuff with your friends?

bloke jerk?

What the hell is that?

Oh, I do make myself laugh!

Bloke-dar. A bit like a gay-day, but generally covers all blokes.

I would agree with you regards to your friends. They just don't like the fact she has changed and isn't there for them as much. It's not that strange to lay cards on the table re kids if she is 39. Also once you get older and meet someone you kinda know what you want and just go for it. It's not like he has 5-10 years if he does want marriage and children so best to be honest now. Sounds like a nice guy.

Guessing a "bloke jerk" is point number 3 from the OP...?

Glad yours is very good

He sounds a bit controlling (withholding sex (but then again, he could be demonstrating commitment)) and then expecting her to drop everything (literally? Certainly figuratively) for a weekend away.

On the other hand, who wouldn't be flattered by such a bloke?

I think 'abusive' is a bit strong, and could possibly be a 'groupthink' reaction by your friends, who are subconsciously afraid of losing her to this man.

Only the OP knows how resilient her friend is, so I would say that she is best placed to argue her case with her friend.

No.5 is worrying. It is never a good thing when undying love, marriage & babies is mentioned shortly after meeting. The best charmers can honestly be the worst people, when you scratch the surface..charm and grand, romantic gestures are used to (very quickly) reel people in. When something or someone seems to good to be true, it normally is.

Anyway, whatever it is will come out eventually and hopefully it will be something your friend can cope with. Every cup has its saucer, so they say..they could end up perfectly happy together. Maybe your friends wish it was them being whisked off to Paris . But anyway, I hope your friend takes her time and doesnt rush. There's no need. Taking time can reveal many things..

SGB - Well I wouldn't fuck a man like this with someone else's chuff. He sounds like a gloopy-eyed, clammy-handed, self-obsessed creep.
But then I loathe woo, massage and 'romantic' gestures. And I wouldn't put up with waiting four months for a shag, I'd have binned and moved on after about a fortnight - I think 'waiting' for sex (once you are an adult) is either manipulative or an indication that the person just isn't very interested in sex in the first place.

This for me. Also I have a thing about men who 'like to watch women get off' and go on about it a lot. Yeh - next time chuck me a peanut and I'll do a little dance too. It's perfoming seal territory for me.

However others are right - some of those things sound potentially red flaggy to me, but it's all about context. His reactions to not getting his own way are what will really tell you who he is. And I do think the 'refusing' sex for 4 months in a serious adult relationship is controlling. What happened that made it all ok in the end.

For me the isolating from her close friends & rushing things would be a red flag, given that they are 2 classic EA traits.

But there could also be elements of jealousy so its hard to judge. Why not push for the 4 of you to have a girls catch- up soon " to hear how its all going" & see what the feeling is then?

Either way its her choice and all you can do is be there for her if it either

a)goes wrong & she needs your support,or

b) hopefully is a lovely second chance at love in which case you can all celebrate her new found happiness!

I honestly think sometimes on mumsnet men can do absolutely nothing right. Damned if they do, damned if they don't!

And I wouldn't put up with waiting four months for a shag, I'd have binned and moved on after about a fortnight

For example, if a MAN had written this, he'd have been fucking crucified!

I don't think 5 is bad if you are nearly 40 - it's being clear that you want a family.

On second thoughts 1 is seriously unusual- I wouldn't have waited.

I honestly think sometimes on mumsnet men can do absolutely nothing right

Are you reading a different thread to me? I see a range of opinions on a public talkboard. Some think he sounds fabulous and the friends are jealous/paranoid. Some think he's a creepy fucker and she should run for the hills. Some think it sounds ok but to take things slowly. Some have had similar relationships that turned into happy marriages. Some have had similar relationships that turned bad. There are pretty much as many viewpoints on here as there are posters.

see now that you have posted the update part I think he sounds decent - he knows what he wants in life and is being up front with your friend.

It does sound like the other 2 are a bit jealous that your friend has found a decent bloke and isnt around at their beck and call.

The only thing is the child part - if she is up for more children then its all good, if not she needs to speak up now.

Good luck to her, hope it all works out.

No.5 is worrying. It is never a good thing when undying love, marriage & babies is mentioned shortly after meeting

When both parties are late thirties, early forties, it makes sense to be sure you're on the same page babies-wise at least from the outset.

Points 1-4 sound fine but 5 is a killer. She doesn't want more children, and wants to have fun. He wants a family. Why is she taking on responsibilities she doesn't want?

Just thought it was worth pointing out that there are as many posters (7) claiming that the friends are jealous and/or envious (for absolutely no good reason that I can see (over-protective/anxious would have done just as well) as there are those famous 'man hating' posters, whom, BTW, I have yet to come across, saying that he is seriously weird (7).
I counted because I am sad and don't have a life procrastinating.
The rest of the posts seem to be equally divided between thinking that the man is totally wonderful and posters advocating varying degrees of caution.
Just saying (gets coat, too).

It's hard to say but arthriticfingers makes some good points. If I was in relationship with this man I personally would be seeing red flags because I hate surprises and the whole thing feels calculated. Oh and how serious is his child wish? Would not having them be a deal breake?

She always talked like she'd finished with kids and was moving onto a new flirty and free stage... but she does seem to have flipped

This would be a worry to me - she had made up her own mind and has now had it changed for her.

I also agree with SGB and Spud.

Massagy type men really make me weird out, but that's a purely personal opinion.

Time is the crucial factor here isn't it, lots of waiting now lots of rushing.

She's 39 he's 45/6 what if their combined age means babies are out. Can she see a future together with him then. Can he?

Your friends sound jealous tbh. I would be too. Good for her...lucky girl!

If she's 39 and he wants kids and thinks she might be the person to do that with then he has to have that conversation now. If this was a woman posting to ask if she was unreasonable to raise babies with a new boyfriend in the same circumstances then I'm sure people would be reassuring her it was fine, she needed to be realistic, it shouldn't scare him off etc.

The crucial thing is for her to decide what she wants. Re-starting on babies when her kids are nearly grown up is a huge decision. She presumably won't feel like she's lost out if they don't have kids. He may well do.

I wonder why he's left it so late to push for babies. Is he one of those men who in their late 30s was still claiming to be too young to settle down?

I do find the four months thing weird, but the rest of it isn't.

There could be any number of reasons why a man in his mid-forties doesn't have kids. A previous LTR with fertility issues for instance.

does he have a twin? Send him round