Money and MIL - advice needed (sorry it is quite long)

[shil0846]

This is more about my mother-in-law, however it is starting to affect my relationship with my husband and I would really appreciate some advice.

My father-in-law died last year leaving a lot of debt, but also a lot of valuable art work. My MIL also had a £15k credit card bill on which she was paying masses of interest. When she was widowed, she couldn't afford to keep paying the interest and was desperate. We therefore paid for the funeral and also took £15k out of our mortgage to lend it to her for 3 months to give her time to sell some of the art work. We are paying 4% interest on this.

11 months later she hasn't sold anything. I have sent pictures of items to auction houses to get them valued, but when I tell her what they say she tuts and says she paid far more than that and she wouldn't sell for such a low price.

The added complication is that I had a baby 6 months ago and we need the money back to buy a bigger place (we're in a tiny flat) and to fund my maternity leave. My MIL is aware of this (I have told her as plainly as I can without upsetting her). Her reaction is to apologize and say that she is ruining everything...yet she just doesn't sell anything. Most recently when I raise it she's started telling me how lucky I am to have had all this time with my DS, as she went back to work when my husband was 4 months old.

I generally have a good relationship with my MIL, but am starting to resent the fact that my family is suffering because we paid her credit card bill. I also feel duped. My husband gets really defensive when I mention it and reminds me that she's lost her husband and he's lost his father. So we end up arguing.

I know that the grief is still raw and suspect she doesn't want to part with any possessions she bought with her late husband, but I'm desperate to spend longer with my DS and could do so if she would only pay us back.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Xx

I have to agree that this concept of living on ever extended credit is going to take you down just as surely as it has taken MIL down.

Your DH has been conditioned to think that you can just borrow in order to fund your lifestyle of choice, regardless of whether it is sustainable. That is what your biggest issue is imo and until that view is changed then you will never be in a better position financially.

I couldnt live like that, and I certainly couldnt live with someone happy to gamble my childs future in this way. He is stealing your credit rating!

Oh you poor poor (literally thanks to Mil) thing, your DH is an ARSE! why does she need it more than you? Can he explain that rationally?
She has a 6 bed house, you have a flat,
she uses a classic car BUT you pay for its upkeep, she goes the beauty salon twice weekly, You haven't been for weeks,

she BORROWED 15K off your mortgage, you're paying interest she's paying nothing and has no intention of paying by the sound of it.

Just writing it down might focus his mind! Though probably not.

She is a real piece of work and your DH is letting her rip his family off.

I agree solicitor and new bank account ASAP!

I wonder if your husband is feeling the loss of his father and feels he is responsible as head of the house. But he is maybe unable to cope with seeing his mum in trouble and unable to make her face up to things. Selling 'family heirlooms' to pay off debt probably feels like a sign of failure. As there are valuable items I imagine the family has been well-off in the past.

She needs to learn to live on a budget. Could you suggest your husband goes through all her finances with her to see where she is and what she has to live on? Otherwise the debts will rack up again.

"he is confident he will get it back when we need it."

But you need it NOW and she won't give it to you.

WTF is he on about?

I'm very glad you are seeking legal advice on Monday.

Since apparently all possessions are held in common, it sounds like the obvious thing to do is a houseswap with the mother. You need a bigger place, she needs a smaller one. Then you sell the bigger one. This is a bit like giving someone a car and then keeping it for yourself.

The clearest thing your DH has said to you is this:

we can apparently borrow more money if required.

That is his (and her) entire mindset. Proper financial planning, good money management and minimising debt are for the little people. (You, should you be any doubt of your standing within this family).

I despair of you getting past this. Because it's not just the MIL. Even if she were no longer around, your DH has grown up learning the most appalling attitude to money and this shows no sign of changing. And it's not possible for you to create financial security for you and your son whilst you are shackled legally to someone so completely lacking in financial prudence. Honestly I think you would be better off divorcing and then living next door to each other, so that your DS can enjoy a relationship with both of you (and indeed you with each other) without any financial ties. These people are going to drag you down into a pit, and you will be the only person who cares about climbing out.

so your DH has chosen the well being of his mother over that of his DW and son. His mother is his priority not you-that is so wrong.
I would not be visiting MIL again, if your DH chooses to take your DS to see her that his prerogative but this selfish entitled witch has palyed a number on you and has damaged your relationship with your DH and your DS's future
In fact with his beliefs l would be reconsidering my future with DH--don't play second fiddle of anyone especially not this woman.

I didn't think this could get any worse you poor thing. Your dh is deranged quite frankly. Can he not see that your PIL were totally uselss with money. Does he think she is sitting on a hoard of middleclass gold that he will get when she dies.
I bet he wouldn't be happy regarding it as one large family bank account if it was your family.
I don't know what else you can do but try and extricate your own finances from his or they will bleed you dry.
Whe my Dad died my mother did a fine line in the widow guilt thing with me. She did not however, at any point, use it to extract money from me or my sister. In fact she made extra sure she knew what state her finances were in. I think it is despicable that both your DH and your MIL are doing this.

I think you now at least have the truth about where your (not so) DH stands in this matter - firmly behind his mother whilst his wife and child can go to hell!

This is you platform, your new reality. From here you can assess how you go forwards.

Good luck and be strong, you're going to have to be for the sake of your DS.

Shil, I'm so sorry that it what happened - though I'm not at all surprised. Shouldn't think anyone following this is. Someone previously said that how she reacted - and indeed, how your DH reacted - to you confronting her would be the measure of how they really feel about all of this ....... and so, you have your answer. Am so so sorry because I think you're now at a point where there really is nothing more you can do as all the logic, all the sensible suggestions, all the moral aspects to what's happening (e.g. regarding broken promises, unnecessary debt, MIL "needs" - which are really wants over yours and your child) are just falling on two pairs of deaf ears.

In other words neither of them are going to change. So - you now have the very unedifying and heartbreaking choice between staying in a situation where you - and your child - will get financially shafted one way or another. It's already happening - and it will keep happening. With the crazy, barmy, selfish, stupid, arrogant and unbelievable attitude your DH has there's no way he won't "help" MIL out again - whether it's the potential remortgage he's already said he won't do (but I don't believe him) or paying out for god knows what when MIL turns on the waterworks.

I think you will have a mental breakdown if you remain in your relationship. I'm not saying that to be facetious or nasty - I'm really worried about you. How can anyone stay in a relationship where their needs and that of their child are hugely downgraded in favour of someone else who is already significantly more privileged ?

I'm pleased you're seeking legal advice. I think the only thing you can do now is to do everything at all possible to protect yours and your child's interests - because no-one else in this so-called "family" gives a damn about them. I appreciate totally that splitting up is going to be a huge step, which might not be possible just yet - but I urge you to start putting into effect every protective measure you can immediately before it's too late, and your DH has squandered any assets you do have in the meantime.

BTW - you are not being unreasonable to expect interest. Maybe not on a short term loan, but you are paying interest, and you have been paying it for far far longer than originally agreed. But again, the logic of that is something your DH doesn't want to admit to. Most normal people would appreciate the generosity of such a large loan and they would want to pay interest in acknowledgement. In the past, I have borrowed (much smaller sums of) money from my mum, and have always paid back, on time, and offered interest. She very kindly refused interest - so I acknowledged what she did in different ways, by buying her gifts and/or by arranging a special treat for her. That is what anyone with a conscience does.

Please please take care and look after yourself. I'm so sorry, and so angry on your behalf that you're having to deal with such crap. I'm damn sure that such an incredibly selfish approach wasn't agreed before you married was it ? It seems to me - in the light of the latest disclosures - that you're not really considered part of this family at all - your only part in it and value is as a source of extra funding.

(should read: "between staying in a situation where you - and your child - will get financially shafted one way or another or, instigating a split")

Tories

ltb

I would write a list of all her spending and then what you have and present to dh along with a request to divorce

this family will ruin you

Hi OP.

The last time I posted, about checking the Land Registry, your DH had not yet revealed his true depth of idiocy.

Now that he has, there is an immediate step you can take that costs nothing. Go here, page down to Section 4.1 and download the severance forms. Your DH need not give consent. You can post them to the Land Registry and from that point on, if DH wants to twat about he can assume the debt on his share alone.

BTW, have you managed to check MIL's house entry yet?

You aren't charging MIL interest. You're asking her to cover the interest of her own debt, which she has placed in your name!

His attitude to money is the same as his parents', I'm afraid. And bankruptcy sounds not improbable if he thinks his salary and yours should cover his family's living expenses, and fuck you and your own baby.

Shil I am so sorry and while I appreciate the debt and your MIL are a huge problem, I think your husband has just positioned himself as your biggest problem of all. Because it's not about this particular debt any more, is it. It's about his attitude to money and to unsustainable lifestyle being possible if you borrow, which was learned at the knee of spendthrifts.

This is such a horrible mess and not one bit of it is any of your fault. Just incredible to expect you to finance his mother at the expense of your own baby - incredible.

Ok so th "family" has some assets (a six bed house, a flat, two cars etc), some debts (two mortgages, credit cards etc) some income (salaries, SMP, pension) some spending requirements (food, clothing, Tory party membership etc)

How are all these things going to balance out? Or are certain family members "untouchable"...?

Also - you saved MIL the credit card interest which was way more than the rate of mortgage interest...

Yes, it seems one side of the family has all the assets and lifestyle, and the other has all the debt and expectation of labour. That's not "one big family". That's you as a useful slave to service a selfish woman's lifestyle while your own child suffers accordingly.

shil you are not the bad person your DH is making you out to be, please don't fall for tat the of emotional blackmail.
I would be seriously worried about my own finacial security If I were you, your DH has learnt his finacial habits from his parents borrow borrow borrow. Eventually he's going to bankrupt you both.

It's him who is in the wrong and he is being a bad father and husband by doing this. Moreover, my parents would give up their last penny rather than see my son go without. Your mIL's selfishness is deeply shocking to me and it shows how brainwashed your husband is that he can't see it.

Solicitor on Monday and do the Land Registry thing Disgrace mentioned in the meantime. This is too much to bear. I am really sorry.

I'm just sending you supporting thoughts and strength for your visit to the lawyer on Monday.

A friend of mine once told me that more marriages break up over money than anything else.

I am so sorry that he has let you down so much.

OP, so very very sorry about the terrible row. DO go and see the solicitor on Monday, even if you calm down between now and then. Make a detailed list of everything that is worrying you and find out what can be done/you can do about it. I hope you get someone who reads this thread!
I am sure you are feeling pretty wretched this week end, but please be reassured by all the posters on the thread that you are definitely doing The Right Thing.
As I mentioned on an earlier post. My MiL and DH are a bit like yours with their attitude to money - always thinking it all eventually 'falls into place', but really they live in cloud cuckoo land. You are so right to stand up for yourself and your DS now.

Oh god, what a mess. I'm so sorry shil, your DH is being a total arse. I'm glad to hear you're going for legal advice.

OMG I can't believe he has put his mother so far ahead of you and DS. You have my sympathy and lots of others good advice.