Money and MIL - advice needed (sorry it is quite long)

[shil0846]

This is more about my mother-in-law, however it is starting to affect my relationship with my husband and I would really appreciate some advice.

My father-in-law died last year leaving a lot of debt, but also a lot of valuable art work. My MIL also had a £15k credit card bill on which she was paying masses of interest. When she was widowed, she couldn't afford to keep paying the interest and was desperate. We therefore paid for the funeral and also took £15k out of our mortgage to lend it to her for 3 months to give her time to sell some of the art work. We are paying 4% interest on this.

11 months later she hasn't sold anything. I have sent pictures of items to auction houses to get them valued, but when I tell her what they say she tuts and says she paid far more than that and she wouldn't sell for such a low price.

The added complication is that I had a baby 6 months ago and we need the money back to buy a bigger place (we're in a tiny flat) and to fund my maternity leave. My MIL is aware of this (I have told her as plainly as I can without upsetting her). Her reaction is to apologize and say that she is ruining everything...yet she just doesn't sell anything. Most recently when I raise it she's started telling me how lucky I am to have had all this time with my DS, as she went back to work when my husband was 4 months old.

I generally have a good relationship with my MIL, but am starting to resent the fact that my family is suffering because we paid her credit card bill. I also feel duped. My husband gets really defensive when I mention it and reminds me that she's lost her husband and he's lost his father. So we end up arguing.

I know that the grief is still raw and suspect she doesn't want to part with any possessions she bought with her late husband, but I'm desperate to spend longer with my DS and could do so if she would only pay us back.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Xx

I am not mentioning the possibility of a relationship to be malicious, but I believe that I set out, in a post up thread, that I had observed how swiftly bereaved people might move on to a new relationship and some of the further financial complications that may then be involved. I have had close personal experience of this.

What will Shil do if MIL hands over management of her affairs to this kindly friend? Or if he offers to take the classic car off her hands for a less than market price?

Disastrous row with DH last night.

He apparently views us all as one big family and doesn't mind where the money sits (ie in our bank account or with his mother) as he is confident he will get it back when we need it. Whilst we have the ability to raise loans etc, he believes mother needs it more than us. I am apparently mercenary and unkind to his grieving mother, who can barely get up in the morning [unless it concerns beauty treatments or social engagements] and who is in no fit state to deal with the pressure being put on her by me. I'm also grasping and "userous" expecting a family member to pay interest (even though we've been paying interest on the money we lent her).

If anything is going to be sold, it is the car, although it means the world to him.

Arguments about our DS and our future were brushed aside as we can apparently borrow more money if required.

Yes - she got to him first.

I feel physically sick and am going to a lawyer first thing on Monday. There is no way this crazy family is going to be left in financial charge of my baby if I'm not there to protect him.

Oh I am so sorry shil, she has done a right number on him
Can he not see that the money is not sitting in the pot for when you need it? You need it now and she has it.
All the best.

"Oh, and you have to re-do your will and re-configure the ownership of your home. You simply can't afford to let your DH think that things are "returning to normal". He must be made to understand that his failure to stand up for his family has caused a real world change"

^This^

I know you don't want to leave your DH over this which is entirely understandable, but he has to know that this hideous ordeal has changed your view of him and his ability to deal with his mother and finances. I wouldn't trust him an inch with money, ever again.

My DH was useless with money when we met. He was in debt to all sorts and was just ignoring the whole lot. I sorted out his debts and 'taught' him how to budget and now he knows everything that goes in and out down to the last pound. We also don't take out loans etc even though we are always told we are entitled to. That's no way to live when you can't afford to pay them back. Unless the debt is for a very good reason, then it is unnecessary.

My MIL is now on her own after her DH walked out on her. She also seemed to think that she could carry on exactly as before, not wanting to sell the house and downsize etc. When the suggestion of a flat was brought up she (and I actually wouldn't have been surprised if she had stamped her foot at this point) said "but I don't want a flat, I WANT a house, with a garden" like a total spoilt brat.

2 years later she seems to have finally got it through her thick head that she can't afford it and is now buying a flat. I have kept well away from the whole thing as her entitled, poor me and spoilt attitude was doing my head in.

The problem with borrowing money is that you have to pay it back with interest, it's not a solution to pay debt off with more debt.

It's going to take years for the penny to drop about his mum, can you really wait that long?.

OMG!!!!

Do not sell anything of 'yours' - you will need that in the future to pay off joint debts! I really think you need to put your ducks in a row and then seperate.

Very very sadly he is not going to change, you will be stuck in the flat forever whilst his mother stays in her 6 bed house with all the flipperies in the world.

Please tell dh that he needs to sell that car now to fund your ML as you are not prepared to agree to another loan in your name to pay for it. Please take on no more joint debt as you are liable for it.

How much equity is there in your flat after all debts in your names are paid off? Is he already living in cloud cuckoo land?

Oh God shil, so sorry to hear you had such a furious row. Hard as it is, at least you know where you stand. There's also no sense of future financial planning or guarding against disaster (eg redundancy) in his position. Nor do his assumptions about repayment/reciprocal bailing out stack up. Without a proper assessment of MIL' situation, he has no idea whether it's all spoken for with creditors etc. He's away with the pixies. Fortunately your baby son has a sensible mother in his corner. Poor you though - none of this can be easy on you.

Oh no. How dare your DH say this to you when HE is the one who told you to have it out with her!!

Your DH really is not going to change on this. Ever! His mother is not part of your financial family and nor are you responsible for her finances. Why the hell does he keep banging on about loans and why is it up to you to foot her interest payments!!!!!!

The car isn't hers to sell or pay her debts off to you, its your money in the first place!!!!

Also, don't you need the money? Isn't this what this whole thing is about. So where is it when you need it as your DH is so confident that he can get it back when he wants it.

She is grieving, yes she really sounds like it. How long is she going to use this for (which is completely what she is doing)/

God this man is doing my head in and I don't even know him.

It would massively change my view of him when he sees his mother and her finances as important in his life as his wife and childs!!! This is really really NOT good.

We have relatives with the "borrow more to fund lifestyle" attitude, one separation and a bankruptcy later and they've found a new partner to make the same mistakes with again.

Yawn.

It's not you it's them.

Also, it might be seen as usurious to charge MIL interest on loaned savings, but you extended your mortgage and ARE ALREADY paying a commercial rate of interest on the loan. I'd be furious in your situation.

TBH it doesn't matter who technically own the classic car just get it sold. Point out to your DH again that he is putting that car above your son getting the time with a full time parent that he needs. I would recommend that you do go back to work after 6 months though because I think financially you need to start putting some funds somewhere safe ready for when this blows up.

I would force your dh to live frugually and every time he dares to complain you state "that is all we can afford because of the debts we are servicing".

I am so so so sad for you but he isn't going to change, I strongly suspect that there is no/little equity in MIL house etc.

You need to see a solicitor, shil. You really do. Sell that fucking necklace asap, too. See a solicitor about changing your will and how much you are able to separate your finances from this person, then do it. Whatever you do, hang onto your job! It will give your options.

This man will ruin you financially, I'm serious, he will. You need to divorce yourself financially from him as much as possible. If you think things are hard as a single parent, think of how hard they are if you have shit credit, foreclosure, bankrupcy, etc.

He has already cost your son £15k and a better roof over his head.

Right that off, flog the necklace and tell him you are finished with this conversation except in front of a counsellor and that you are seeing a lawyer because your MIL does not need it more and you will not sacrifice your child's financial security to pay for her hair appointments and contributions to the Tory party.

Then don't engage with him further, at all.

There are three people in your marriage.

Agree with everything Expat said. Although I wouldn't want to write the 15k off. I am like a dog with a bone and I don't let go. If they think that can get that one over on you, they will do exactly the same again when they think you will let it go.

I would also point out that you married your DH, not his fucking mother and that really is some fine print that he didn't tell you about!

Shil, I could cry for you, honestly I am genuinely finding this really upsetting and we have never met. I really don't know what to say but I would be telling her that as well as damaging your finances she is now seriously damaging your marriage.
I would be taking off to a friends for a couple of weeks, for you

Shil I have been following this with my mouth hanging open. I simply don't know what to say after this latest development; your DH is unbelievable. And your MIL is a piece of work. I really feel for you. Hope you are able to find a way through this.

If there is so much equite in that house then she can do mortgage fricken release okay so dh and bil will never inherit but guess what they won't anyway because she will spend every last penny anyway.

If it is all "our" money in one pot that include BIL too!!!! I would insist that you go through all her financial affairs when you go up and then find out in black and white what the hell is going on. What will your dh really think if you find out there is no money left?

Your MIL surely doesn't have any less monthly income than when FIL was alive - isn't she getting a company pension through his employers etc.??? I really think they have been living beyond their means for decades and that the house is mortgaged to the hilt.

I agree with expat too: I am not sure of the practicalities of what you can protect financially if you are in a marriage and jointly liable, but a financial adviser will know. In your position I would need to see one and to be taking steps towards separating financially for a start.

What is the deal with the mortgage? Why isn't it paid off, how much equity is there?

And sadly, hope I am wrong, I have sneaking suspicion the equity in that house is mostly gone. This person has lived way beyond her means for some time.

I'm not saying LTB, although I certainly would, but see a solicitor asap to at the very least separate your finances as much as possible, change your will and find out what may happen to you if your spouse takes out more loans to keep his mother living the high life because this can have very serious ramifications for you including destroying your credit and making it impossible or very expensive for you to access credit in your own name, getting a mortgage on your own, even renting a flat privately or getting a phone contract or car.

I have seen it happen, unfortunately, and good people go from being homeowners to homeless and in a hovel waiting for the council to house them because they are penniless and financially ruined by a spouse's poor decisions and it's not pretty.

You can't separate financially unless all joint debts are settled, so even if op walked out today she couldn't apply for the credit agencies to separate her from her Dh.

I think op said the mortgage is interest only, it's an excellent way of living beyond your means but eventually you have to either pay back the capital out of savings or sell to repay. Either way you don't own the house.

Oddly some people who use that kind of mortgage don't understand that.

She can, however, open an account in her own name and have her wages and maternity pay put in there and change her will.

But really, shil, you need some legal advice regarding your will, anyhow.

It is not likely something will happen to you, but if it does, your husband will not protect your son financially. His mother comes first.

I'd check your credit score, too, shil. It may already make for scary reading because your husband seems to see debt as a way of life.

If you were one big family then your MIL selling her assets to put into the family pot/avoid the family going into more debt would be just as acceptable as you selling yours.

So why isn't that the case?

It isn't so much the "one family" thing, it's the "getting into debt is fine" thing that both DH and MIL share.